Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dr. Maserati]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...or-those-who-doubt-racing-can-be-clean_228247

"****ing ****ers"

Yep, 'The Hog', 'Galic Ho' and 'BroDeal'. That's you he's talking about, and you know he's spot on. Wasted 15 seconds of my life looking at the 'Hog's profile. All those posts and nearly all of them on a doping board. Some cycling fan.

Not one of you big mouths would come out with all your yap if you couldn't hide behind a pseudonym.

So, Mr Pumpy is your real name? Cool, i think.

 

[Walkman]

You're right. I'd like them to answer that question, because it's ill advised, as I said. I just don't see why a team can employ an athlete with a dodgy past and nobody bat an eyelid, but when a doctor with a dodgy past gets employed, everybody hits the roof.

Some of us do.

For example when Euskaltel rehired Astarloza after his ban that gave me bad feelings so don't come and say people don't care about old dopers. Same with a team like Lampre, I don't even get why any company would like to sponsor that team.

 

[mewmewmew13]

So, Mr Pumpy is your real name? Cool, i think.

Lol


.......

 

[Walkman]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...or-those-who-doubt-racing-can-be-clean_228247

"****ing ****ers"

Yep, 'The Hog', 'Galic Ho' and 'BroDeal'. That's you he's talking about, and you know he's spot on. Wasted 15 seconds of my life looking at the 'Hog's profile. All those posts and nearly all of them on a doping board. Some cycling fan.

Not one of you big mouths would come out with all your yap if you couldn't hide behind a pseudonym.

I'd love to ask Bradley some questions face to face or even by e-mail if I'd knew he would answer. He isn't even asked the most relevant questions. Because if some journalist do, SKY will probably never speak to him or her again...

I hope I am wrong though.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Some of us do.

For example when Euskaltel rehired Astarloza after his ban that gave me bad feelings so don't come and say people don't care about old dopers. Same with a team like Lampre, I don't even get why any company would like to sponsor that team.

I took it back in a later post, albeit I get called irrelevant for doing so.

It doesn't sit comfortably with me either, but the guy deserves a second chance, like everybody else in society.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Out of interest, what response would not have shown they are doping?

You'd have to ask Hog. It was his post. I was just attaching it to the other quotes I dredged up - Froome's twitter and the one from 2007 that Jeremy Whittle brought to our attention.

It just seems quite apposite - in the view of the quotes from 2007, where Wiggins is very happy to accept people's suspicions as understandable, that Hog (or anybody else for that matter) would then consider a completely opposite reaction to the same suspicions as a suggestion something has changed. Coupled with Froome's "nothing to see here, carry on" tweet, it's a bit of a difficult one.

One of the Podium Café guys responded to Froome saying that clean cyclists might want to consider that 20 years of their colleagues cheating has robbed the fans of blind faith, and therefore robs the cyclists of fans showing it.

After all, Team Sky are either idiots for assuming that questions like that wouldn't arise, or they think we're all idiots who would swallow a performance like that unquestioningly. I don't think Team Sky are idiots, and I don't think they're as disrespectful of the intelligence of the audience as that, therefore I have to believe that they will have expected some kind of raised eyebrows from the audience. Casting aspersions on everybody who was unable to swallow the performance whole as lazy people who have never achieved anything in their life is not only vindictive but stupid too, but then I guess top level athletes are less at the mercy of the vagaries of the market than us mere mortals.

It's time to patent that natural formula and sell it. Tagline: "Be able to peak all year long".

Except of course, that came from super-peaker Froome, who is the one of the gang that doesn't peak all year long.

 

[Benotti69]

I'd love to ask Bradley some questions face to face or even by e-mail if I'd knew he would answer. He isn't even asked the most relevant questions. Because if some journalist do, SKY will probably never speak to him or her again...

I hope I am wrong though.

I imagine they will start the black book like USPS had with their secret press conferences in certain hotel rooms for invited Journos only.

Depends if the media writes about what it sees and not does do the copy and paste jobs that have made up most of the cycling media's efforts.

 

[The Hitch]

Let this one go. Ergo, he forgot about Sastre when trying to think of every Tour winner for the last 20 years in his head within a few seconds.

If Wiggins takes his - people who accuse others of doping are *** ****** comments half as seriously as he makes out, he would have apologized to Sastre for accusing Sastre of doping like that.

I mean we arent talking about a 1 off win in 1997 or something, but a guy who was at the time 1 of 3 active TDF winners, who just happened to be the defending champion when Wiggins broke through and compete for races Wiggins rode in and won 2 stages of that Giro Wiggins rode in that year too.

Btw i understand the point about some people like hog going way overboard with their conclusions to Wiggins response, yes getitng angry does not mean he is doping of course.

But the point to remember is that 5 years ago, when Wiggins was talking about how vino doped and rasmussen doped etc, Wiggins was very open minded to the idea of people getting sick and tired of the sport because of doping. He was open minded to the idea of being sceptical about people with bizzare out of this world performances. He wanted more done against doping.

Hell he even himself said he knew the moment Vino won the tt that Vino must have been doping.

Now he is completely on the other side. He doesnt want to hear a word about doping. Armstrong is a hero. People who follow his 07 train of thought are ****ers.

And he just happens to have been a nobody when making the first comments, and the TDF leader and heavy favourite, when making the second ones.

And to read heavily into that, one does not need a tin foil hat.

 

[131313]

"the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics: I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles.”

It's one thing to be mad about people questioning your integrity. I certainly understand that. But criticizing people who ask a very legitimate question is right out of the Armstrong playbook, so BW's love for Lance is completely understandable in its current context. And questioning ANYONE at the top of the TDF food chain is legitimate. If history has taught us anything, it's that very simple truth.

Likewise, the "things have changed" mantra has been around just about as long as doping has been outlawed by the sport. So, while I'd love to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, that's just hard to do. Froome doing his best Bernhard Kohl imitation doesn't help things. Who knows, maybe he did just suddenly get a lot better. But if these guys don't understand that it's reasonable to be suspicious, they're complete and utter morons.

 

[Poursuivant]

Wiggins' quote from 2007 is before he was leading a Tour. He always contradicts himself I dont think there is any malice in it. I seen a quote from him about two months ago saying he hadnt really looked at the tour route yet the last three stages he has said he has ridden in training. I agree he should expect these questions but if you are climbing mountains all day, fighting off attacks, and if you are clean, I think it is understandable you spit your dummy out a bit about the cynics. Lets face it - doubt will never leave this sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

According to Andrew Hood this was the question asked:
"What do you say to cynics on places like Twitter who say you have to be doped to the gills to win the Tour?"

Peter Cossins (who I assume was in the press room):
"Applause and handshakes for journo in the press room whose question led to Wiggins swearing. What is this, bear-baiting?"

Bradley Wiggins from the Manchester Velodrome 27/07/2007:
"I don't blame people for doubting the credibility of the Tour de France for the next five, six, seven years"

Here's the audio of most of the press conference (2007), it's worth a listen [right-click to download]

------------------------
Here's the source of Jeremy Whittle's quote posted earlier on in the thread:
BW, on cycling's cynics, Manchester 2007: "There is that perception and I'd agree with that. I can't blame people for thinking that..."

Thanks for that - the full quote of the question is here on Cyclingweekly
"There was some chatter in the Twitter-sphere about the comparison between Sky and US Postal," said the AP journalist. "I'm wondering your reaction. And, what do you say to the cynics who say you have to be doped up to win the Tour de France?"

I am actually more disappointed in the question (& the other cheerleaders) than Wiggins answer. BW was asked about twitter users, not about doping per se - the question about doping should have been asked directly.

 

[BroDeal]

JV's stance is that it's cleaner, not that they eradicated doping. It's fine to say you ignore facts and will go with your belief.

You don't have any facts. You have JV parroting the UCI's talking points about a new dawn, which is newer than the last new dawn and even more so than the new dawn before the last new dawn.

The facts are that Rogers says he is hitting his best numbers yet, he was part of T-Mob's blood doping program, and Sky employs dodgy doctors. Yet Wiggins for some reason is outraged that people doubt him and his team's miraculous increase in performance.

 

[Franklin]

I took it back in a later post, albeit I get called irrelevant for doing so.

It doesn't sit comfortably with me either, but the guy deserves a second chance, like everybody else in society.

I'm sorry but Leinders (and his ilk) could be just let go to rejoin regular society. No reason to keep this guy employed in sports.

It's that easy... just don't hire a guy like that. End of story.

 

[function]

You don't have any facts. You have JV parroting the UCI's talking points about a new dawn, which is newer than the last new dawn and even more so than the new dawn before the last new dawn.

.

Actually I do have facts backing a "cleaner" peloton, which I've posted before and you ridiculed. you clearly want to go with your beliefs.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/07/tour-de-france-biological-passport.html

 

[Galic Ho]

Maybe you should pay attention to what you write too, after all there could be those who think you're nothing but a troll.

It's a thread about Sky. Topic matter is Sky. Conversation revolves around Sky.

His comments are all there to difuse questioning. Go read his posts. Unashamed Sky fanboy. Do the math. Numbers say he most likely is trolling. Not one single post adds anything of note, it's simple misdirection. He's deliberately coming onto this thread and repeatedly doing this. It is the Clinic after all. You don't like that sort of thing, stay out. Most remember that when they read a thread in the Clinic. Some don't and they are usually the trouble makers.

@thehog. Nice call on Wiggins reaction. Really is telling. Mr Cranky Pants Austin Powers wannabe is really feeling the heat. Tomorrow is the real test. He smokes everyone, like you believe, the heat will pile up in another way. If he doesn't the psychological pressure of not performing will get to him as well.

I too also suspect Sky probably have an extra 5-10% they can hit if they have to. Which leaves me asking, where the hell did they get enough blood bags from? There is only so much one can take out and re-infuse. I'm perplexed...either way, here is something to think about. Andy Murray lost Wimbledon. A sign perhaps of Britain choking? Of them failing to come up short? If they smoke Evans, then that'll confirm thehogs impressions about Sky having another leg over the competition. Worse, it'll start a doping race amongst other teams. Really hope the police catch someone doing something.

 

[wattage]

Tomorrows stage will be hilarious when Wigans and Froome beat Fabs at his own game.

 

[BroDeal]

Actually I do have facts backing a "cleaner" peloton, which I've posted before and you ridiculed. you clearly want to go with your beliefs.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/07/tour-de-france-biological-passport.html

You left out the 2012 data.

 

[taiwan]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...or-those-who-doubt-racing-can-be-clean_228247

"****ing ****ers"

Yep, 'The Hog', 'Galic Ho' and 'BroDeal'. That's you he's talking about, and you know he's spot on. Wasted 15 seconds of my life looking at the 'Hog's profile. All those posts and nearly all of them on a doping board. Some cycling fan.

Not one of you big mouths would come out with all your yap if you couldn't hide behind a pseudonym.

If you're familiar with the posters in here, you'll maybe also be familiar with the troll(s). You know, low post count, post in the clinic only, contrary viewpoint, immediately flaming the old timers...

 

[Elagabalus]

The dopers delusion is always this. What annoys dopers is when they are asked about doping it makes them mad. They think that the person asking the question thinks they're winning only because of the dope. What they want to remind us is that even when doping you still have to train and work hard.

That's the anger ...

While, in the main, I agree with this, it doesn't necessarily exclude the angry reaction of someone who is innocent being accused of something he didn't do i.e. someone murders your wife and the police investigators come and tell you that your one of the suspects.

 

[Walkman]

You left out the 2012 data.

Is that serious data? Source?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

People who follow his 07 train of thought are ****ers.

I feel like that all the time! We all develop and change our views on things as time goes by.

IMO, Wiggins is showing the strain of a man feeling the weight of pressure of being the favourite for yellow, nothing more, regardless of whether he doped or not.

Btw, he may well have apologised to Sastre, for all we know. You're right though, he should have done it publicly.

 

[function]

You left out the 2012 data.

So you ask for facts and then reply with a trolling post. I should have known better than to respond to someone who is so set on their beliefs.

 

[Galic Ho]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...or-those-who-doubt-racing-can-be-clean_228247

"****ing ****ers"

Yep, 'The Hog', 'Galic Ho' and 'BroDeal'. That's you he's talking about, and you know he's spot on. Wasted 15 seconds of my life looking at the 'Hog's profile. All those posts and nearly all of them on a doping board. Some cycling fan.

Not one of you big mouths would come out with all your yap if you couldn't hide behind a pseudonym.

Says the man hiding behind a pseudonym about a rider bashing faceless people he will never see. In person, put him to task, he'll buckle. What's he gonna do? Curse and swear? He's a Pom, any Aussie worth their salt would rip him a new one verbally. Ask our cricket team...no ask the English team. Is he going to hit you? His arm would break. There is only a handfull of pro cyclists who would be pyhsically threatening and on that spectrum he is at the opposite end. My sister could beat Wiggins senseless and she is 5'3."

You also fail to note by engaging the public on that piece of crap called Twitter, you open yourself to ridicule. Twitter is for twits...hence why so many cyclists love it. Self absorbed doping nut jobs mostly. If we were really hating on Wiggins, our language would match his. Duh!

So people who replied to you and OWNED your dumb ar$e, are haters hey? So does that mean you're the opposite? A Sky crotch rider? So what is it, 'spits or swallows?' You know, to borrow an old Austin Powers quote.

 

[function]

Is that serious data? Source?

Follow the sports scientists link in my post, it has the proper graph without the brodeal fabrication.

 

[SaxonUK]

Says the man hiding behind a pseudonym about a rider bashing faceless people he will never see. In person, put him to task, he'll buckle. What's he gonna do? Curse and swear? He's a Pom, any Aussie worth their salt would rip him a new one verbally. Ask our cricket team...no ask the English team. Is he going to hit you? His arm would break. There is only a handfull of pro cyclists who would be pyhsically threatening and on that spectrum he is at the opposite end. My sister could beat Wiggins senseless and she is 5'3."

You also fail to note by engaging the public on that piece of crap called Twitter, you open yourself to ridicule. Twitter is for twits...hence why so many cyclists love it. Self absorbed doping nut jobs mostly. If we were really hating on Wiggins, our language would match his. Duh!

So people who replied to you and OWNED your dumb ar$e, are haters hey? So does that mean you're the opposite? A Sky crotch rider? So what is it, 'spits or swallows?' You know, to borrow an old Austin Powers quote.

Oh, you're Australian, well that's put everything into perspective.

I admire your staunch defence of your argument, but considering your last several posts just seem to be abuse towards posters and cyclists, I'm not sure where you're going with any of this.