Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[cineteq]

@chrisfroome Critics need to wake up and realise that cycling has evolved. Dedication and sacrifice = results. End of story!

It's time to patent that natural formula and sell it. Tagline: "Be able to peak all year long".

 

[King Of The Wolds]

And his argument is the same old - i train harder stuff that all people that have been caught doping use.

So if he makes it, he should explain why him training 5 hours a day turns him from tp rider to TDF champion, while people like Valverde, Gesink VDB Nibali Basso etc etc etc who started off way ahead are just 2 years later finding it impossible to hold his wheel in the mountains.

Are they all just lazy?

To answer that question, he'd need to know the details for the training programmes of the aforementioned. How and why should he do that?

 

[The Hitch]

He got a round of applause from the media after his rant.

Wiggins also had a dig at tennis which I think is out of order:



http://ca.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idCABRE8670B920120708

Wiggins is prone to make the most idiotic remarks whenever given a mic. Always happens. He truly is not afraid to speak his mind, even though his mind is full of very weird ideas.

 

[BYOP88]

Only a fanboy and Sky apologist would ask such a ludicrous question about Bottle. Heard of USADA? Heard of the world of hurt they threw at LA and Bruyneel and the Postal doctors?

I guess not, because if you had been paying attention, not fapping over the Wiggins posters adorning the walls at home, you would have heard all of the above and know fully well such work was achieved via the testimony of 10 former USPS riders. Four of whom are rumoured to racing this years Tour. Wanna take a stab in the dark whom was theorised months and months ago in the Clinic to have talked? Does it make sense now why he's normal by former performance indicators? Nah, because you were trolling. You already knew...if not you are dumber than I already imagined.

If you want to post trolling garbage, go back to the pro forum. Go fap over Sky in silence. Perhaps it's time to ask the mods to step in and get rid of you trolls. You and seramatic are as bad as BPC, aka Arbiter, aka biggest LA nut hugger ever.

Maybe you should pay attention to what you write too, after all there could be those who think you're nothing but a troll.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Please tell me someone used the elephant in the room follow up question - if you dont like people accusing you, why did you say Evans was the first clean winner - ergo Sastre doped.

Let this one go. Ergo, he forgot about Sastre when trying to think of every Tour winner for the last 20 years in his head within a few seconds.

 

[Mr Pumpy]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...or-those-who-doubt-racing-can-be-clean_228247

"****ing ****ers"

Yep, 'The Hog', 'Galic Ho' and 'BroDeal'. That's you he's talking about, and you know he's spot on. Wasted 15 seconds of my life looking at the 'Hog's profile. All those posts and nearly all of them on a doping board. Some cycling fan.

Not one of you big mouths would come out with all your yap if you couldn't hide behind a pseudonym.

 

[function]

It's time to patent that natural formula and sell it. Tagline: "Be able to peak all year long".

He has been peaking all year? It's only July and He had no spring campaign. Or were you joking?

 

[Walkman]

Given cycling's background, it is ill advised. But as evidence of doping, again, it's barely worth the paper it's written on.

Many of the great sports coaches of the Eastern Bloc countries from the 70s and 80s, who were intrinsically involved in the systematic doping programmes run by those countries, went to work in the west after the fall of the communism. Jurgen Groebler for example. Why? Because they were the best in the field, regardless of whether their athletes were drugged or not. Their work still forms the basis for what we know about sports science today.

The dodgy coaches, doctors and DS's from the late 90s and early 2000s? Guess what? They're still the best in their field, regardless of whether the athletes are doped or not.

Again, Sky may be doped, this one as evidence is again clutching at straws.

Of course there is no real evidence.

But I think it would be a good question to ask SKY manegment or, say Wiggins. Do they, unlike LA, have something to hide?!

Mostly I am just curious to see Bradleys reaction given his old statements from 2007 and the new ones from today...

 

[Fergoose]

I'll reserve judgement for after the TDF. Froome was suffering when Van den Broeck was pulling, and he was the last of Wiggins' boys.

He fooled me with that early on at the Vuelta where he had what appeared to be a sub-par performance and lost a couple of seconds. Wait until you see the lad’s recuperative powers in the second and third weeks - it wasn't really until the second week in the Vuelta that you could see he had more in tank than Wiggins and by the third week he was making Wiggins look totally inferior. Although the route is so relatively undemanding compared to the Vuelta it may be hard to gauge what the genuine limit of Froome's abilities is if he is shackled to Wiggins.

On recent GT form I'd put Froome ahead of Andy Schleck and about equal with the post 2008 Contador as the rider able to expend the most energy day after day without it resulting in an off day.

I have been reading this thread over the past two days, and upon reflection, the only performance that really, really, is hard to believe is Chris Froome.

I couldn’t agree more with your entire post (at this moment in time). I was pretty dismayed when Sky re-signed him. Although some of guys in the power data estimate thread didn't think his individual performances in the Vuelta were too outlandish, when put in the context of three weeks of baking heat and almost single-handed daily domestique work for Wiggins they began to look silly to me.

 

[oldcrank]

Definitive proof Wiggo is doped to the gills:
http://vimeo.com/45352846/
"stupid c@nt!"

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Of course there is no real evidence.

But I think it would be a good question to ask SKY manegment or, say Wiggins. Do they, unlike LA, have something to hide?!

Mostly I am just curious to see Bradleys reaction given his old statements from 2007 and the new ones from today...

You're right. I'd like them to answer that question, because it's ill advised, as I said. I just don't see why a team can employ an athlete with a dodgy past and nobody bat an eyelid, but when a doctor with a dodgy past gets employed, everybody hits the roof.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

People with cameras behave like total ******s. He easily could have broken someones face running around like that.

 

[The Hitch]

Would you see a classy sportsman like Federer have a dig at the Tour de France? No you would'nt.

But you do see an idiot like Wiggins where the success has gone to his head say it though.

Nadal did though didnt he? He said it was only those *** sports like cycling which dope (or something to that effect)

 

[noddy69]

People with cameras behave like total ******s. He easily could have broken someones face running around like that.

If you look at it properly he sees wiggins and was never going to hit him. Wiggins actually lashes out at him sideways, the camera wasnt going to hit him.

He could have seriously injured the camera man.

 

[Franklin]

. I just don't see why a team can employ an athlete with a dodgy past and nobody bat an eyelid, but when a doctor with a dodgy past gets employed, everybody hits the roof.

Absolute nonsense which you just pull out of your nose. There is a stink in the media about ex-dopers, nobody even remotely reports on the doctors.

Even Ferrari managed to be just passingly mentioned for fifteen years after Moser. Sassi? nobody remembers him. Conconi became known for the Conconi test.

Heh, this post shows you will just sprout drivel to defend Sky without looking at the facts and history. A rather blatant failure of being a relevant discussion participant.

 

[maxmartin]

Shane Stokes with Velonation on twitter:


http://twitter.com/SSbike

glad someone in the media can speak out

 

[SaxonUK]

If you look at it properly he sees wiggins and was never going to hit him. Wiggins actually lashes out at him sideways, the camera wasnt going to hit him.

He could have seriously injured the camera man.

Close enough to him to warrant a preemptive lashing out. It wasn't going to hit him but would you really want a camera hitting you in the face being your reason to pull out of a race?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Absolute nonsense which you just pull out of your nose. There is a stink in the media about ex-dopers, nobody even remotely reports on the doctors.

Even Ferrari managed to be just passingly mentioned for fifteen years after Moser. Sassi? nobody remembers him. Conconi became known for the Conconi test.

Heh, this post shows you will just sprout drivel to defend Sky without looking at the facts and history. A rather blatant failure of being a relevant discussion participant.

Not talking about the media. Here, in The Clinic.

No, actually, you're right, thinking about it. There's a stink about everybody who moves here.

 

[BroDeal]

So you're going to ignore the biological passport data (reticulate percentages) supporting JV's statement? Fair enough you're free to follow your belief.

I don't care what JV claims the numbers show. I know what I saw yesterday.

Rogers!! Freaking Rogers gloating about hitting better numbers than he did on the T-Mobile blood doping plan. Clean? Bullsh!t.

 

[The Hitch]

How come OPQS have Boonen on such a good programme, sign Bottle, and do not offer him the same programme?

Sky already had TDF bought. So Bottle was given Tour de San Luis, where Contador was wheelsucking him.

 

[pelodee]

According to Andrew Hood this was the question asked:
"What do you say to cynics on places like Twitter who say you have to be doped to the gills to win the Tour?"

Peter Cossins (who I assume was in the press room):
"Applause and handshakes for journo in the press room whose question led to Wiggins swearing. What is this, bear-baiting?"

Bradley Wiggins from the Manchester Velodrome 27/07/2007:
"I don't blame people for doubting the credibility of the Tour de France for the next five, six, seven years"

Here's the audio of most of the press conference (2007), it's worth a listen [right-click to download]

------------------------
Here's the source of Jeremy Whittle's quote posted earlier on in the thread:
BW, on cycling's cynics, Manchester 2007: "There is that perception and I'd agree with that. I can't blame people for thinking that..."

 

[Epicycle]

Geert Leinders has been on this kind of doping radar for a long time. He was banned from the 1999 Tour after the French tightened the restrictions on foreign doctors working in France. Leinders didn't have the correct accreditation to prescribe medicine in France. After Rabo had a bad Tour there were questions about Leinders' absence having something to do with that.

 

[Love the Scenery]

Then please provide another example. Who else has done this? Tell you what, I will ask as many people I know in the gym today if they think what you've said is possible. I'll see how many, cyclists included, laugh at me.

Or perhaps I will run it past the dieticians I know. So we are in agreement Wiggins had an already sensationally low body fat level, as he was a pro cyclist. That's a given. Concrete idea. But you suggest, Wiggins in three months, could burn 12 kilos of mostly muscle, from all over his body, not lose power, but in actuality, maintain it, all whilst fueling his body with what? Essentially he'd be exercising on almost no food to do this. Thus he's not running on ATP energy. He'd completely F#%K up his metabolism by the way and lose a significant portions of his muscular power and endurance. Nice try. Science is against you on this one. Try that with anyone with detailed knowledge. You'd need the better part of a year to do it safely. Even then your body would be screaming to resort back to it's normal state.

Well, like I say, I'm not saying Wiggins is clean, only that his performances are possible for a clean rider. As I understand it he had more like 5 months to do this body transformation thing. You at least recognize that the lost of muscle mass itself is not the problem--this is perfectly possible for an athlete with a low body fat ratio--but you raise the valid point that such a program would result in physical exhaustion, inadequate training, loss of power. Again, though, I think it is possible. The whole point is, to lose the muscle mass you must be using the muscles in the first place. That is, to get smaller you have to do enough exercise to burn into your muscle mass. Now, I do not buy that your body is going to distribute muscle mass loss evenly all over. If, for example, you are cycling every day in order to burn through your carbs, glycogen, and fat to your protein, then your cycling endurance muscles will be preserved at the expense of chest, arms, neck, abdominals, back, and so forth. Your strength fibers all over the body will get the ax before your active endurance fibers. Strength fibers being bulkier this will represent a major weight loss. You will get stringy and thin all over. A tell tale sign would be your face--such weight loss is invariably reflected in a gaunt face, so we could test my hypothesis by looking at Wiggins face photos during his winter of weight loss. Meanwhile, since you are riding a bike to accomplish this, your crucial endurance fibers will not suffer and your hematocrit should remain steady if you are training at altitude. It would be a brutal, brutal thing to do. You then emerge from the weight loss and reconstruct muscle in appropriate places.

To do this requires intense commitment and a highly sensitive body but I do not think it would require PEDs. To be sure, they would help enormously. Even massive doses of caffeine during training would help. But they would not be necessary.

I still think Wiggins suspicious, but not suspicious enough that I am absolutely certain. I think we all hated to see the USPS tactics and using those tactics makes us all think of systematic team doping, and I would not be surprised if Wiggins is found out to dope, but I am not convinced yet.

 

[function]

I don't care what JV claims the numbers show. I know what I saw yesterday.

Rogers!! Freaking Rogers gloating about hitting better numbers than he did on the T-Mobile blood doping plan. Clean? Bullsh!t.

JV's stance is that it's cleaner, not that they eradicated doping. It's fine to say you ignore facts and will go with your belief.

 

[Franklin]

Not talking about the media. Here, in The Clinic.

No, actually, you're right, thinking about it. There's a stink about everybody who moves here.

And again you are talking nonsense. Doctors are a very minor subject here beyond Fuenes, Checcini and Ferrari. If we start looking at the doctors the span of the rot would be exposed to span almost (if not every) all the teams. We are talking about doctors reputed by multiple sources to subscribe Epo and do bloodpacking.

You aren't even trying to stay relevant....