Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[del1962]

Remember in the mid to late 90s when all we had was CB winning the prologue and crashing/fading as soon as the inclines went up

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Dear Wiggo's point was that the UK hasn't produced any road riders recently, not that the UK hadn't produced any road riders with a high media profile.

Not really. Steele VonHoff was racing in Australia as a conti rider and is now on Garmin's team. Compared to Evans he's nowhere.

Wiggins is an order of magnitude above all those guys thanks to the last few years. The people watching the Tour are only doing so for Wiggins and Froome - no other UK rider is doing anything, and that's my point, as initiated by MartinGT. Those guys you mention are not getting people watching TV, where the money in pro cycling is made.

 

[martinvickers]

And Simpson yeah? And there were almost-UKers in Roche and co.

Oi!! Hand's off!!

"My passport's green. No glass of ours was ever raised. To toast The Queen. "

To misquote - Our boys were doped to the gills and racing up mountains when they were still doing cave paintings!

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Thats an iteresting one.

Take out Froome, Cav, Wiggo & Millar and what squad would you make?

One for the main board I suppose.

Here's the long list:

Stannard
Cummings
Rowe
Dowsett
Swift
Tennant
JTL
Blythe
Thomas
Kennaugh

You could make a decent race squad out of that lot, particularly if other countries also arbitrarily lost their three best riders!

 

[martinvickers]

Come on man, you seriously are clutching at straws there man.

JTL has only just started poking his head over the parapet in the last 18months, since then he was riding in a poor domestic calender.

The rest, what have the REALLY done in Europe to catch the media in the Uk? Errr None.

Even when Cav was winning year in year out on the Champs the UK media didnt batter an eye lid! The main sports news when he won the WC was something about a 0-0 draw in wendyball!

Must have missed the bit where the unknown and ignored Cav won BBC sports personality of the year, then....

British road cycling has gone in flashes - Simpson, Hoben, Robinson - MillarR, Yates - arguably Millar D, Boardman - Cav, Wiggins, Froome -Clearly this is the biggest they've ever been on the road - but there's no need to over do it on the 'Brit's know nothing about cycling'- there's a pretty long history of Track success for starters.

 

[martinvickers]

Come on man, you seriously are clutching at straws there man.

JTL has only just started poking his head over the parapet in the last 18months, since then he was riding in a poor domestic calender.

The rest, what have the REALLY done in Europe to catch the media in the Uk? Errr None.

Even when Cav was winning year in year out on the Champs the UK media didnt batter an eye lid! The main sports news when he won the WC was something about a 0-0 draw in wendyball!

Actually, MartinGT, he has a point about the strange British history of Road Racing - you might want to do a bit of googling/wiki on the history of the British Cycling Federation - people used to be banned for daring to road race, because they were so worried about upsetting the police!! A ban from the 19th century till the late 1950's! Rival time trial federations, the works - completely upended the idea of road racing in britain...

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Not really. Steele VonHoff was racing in Australia as a conti rider and is now on Garmin's team. Compared to Evans he's nowhere.

Wiggins is an order of magnitude above all those guys thanks to the last few years. The people watching the Tour are only doing so for Wiggins and Froome - no other UK rider is doing anything, and that's my point, as initiated by MartinGT. Those guys you mention are not getting people watching TV, where the money in pro cycling is made.

I must have misunderstood your point. It appeared to be saying that the UK hadn't produced any decent riders recently.

You forget Cav. A lot of folk tune in to watch him race whenever coverage is on!

Road cycling in the UK will always be a minority sport, in terms of TV viewing. I would think. You can't make folk watch a sport they don't want to watch. (And let's be honest, most road races are long and boring, with no way of knowing where the brief moments of excitement will actually occur.)

There was outrage amongst cycling fans in the UK around 10 years ago when Channel 4 stopped its prime time Tour highlights programme to show an extra episode of a soap opera. Unfortunately, around 10 times more people wanted to watch Hollyoaks than Lance Armstrong.

Triathlon and rowing are both sports where Britain has enjoyed a far higher level of success than road cycling for many years, but even they only feature particularly prominently during the Olympics. Conversely, tennis, where pre-Andy Murray, British success was measured in terms of the number of wildcards secured for major events, is very popular on TV.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Here's the long list:

Stannard
Cummings
Rowe
Dowsett
Swift
Tennant
JTL
Blythe
Thomas
Kennaugh

You could make a decent race squad out of that lot, particularly if other countries also arbitrarily lost their three best riders!

Andy Fenn is annoyed to have been left out. That list has potential to make a pretty good team for one day races though (especially on cobbles). Apart from Cummings they are all still improving.

 

[martinvickers]

Not really. Steele VonHoff was racing in Australia as a conti rider and is now on Garmin's team. Compared to Evans he's nowhere.

Wiggins is an order of magnitude above all those guys thanks to the last few years. The people watching the Tour are only doing so for Wiggins and Froome - no other UK rider is doing anything, and that's my point, as initiated by MartinGT. Those guys you mention are not getting people watching TV, where the money in pro cycling is made.

To be fair, Wiggo, is that not true of ANY country beyond the absolute cycling heartland - benelux, and grand tour country? Is that not sort of a truism of sport generally? More Aussies and Kiwis watch soccer because of the recent world cup success, chinese watch snooker because of Fu and Ling:

Britain doesn't reallygive a toss about the America' Cup - If Ainslee comes close to winning it, they'll suddenly all be glued - it's just human nature.

But as for Britain and cycling - the recent explosion of interest was undoubtedly started, not by Wiggins, but by Cav - Wiggins has certainly raised it another several notches, and Sky are trying to piggyback the whole thing- but the first niche-to-mainstream moment of this 'cycle' was Cav, rather than wiggins.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

...people used to be banned for daring to road race, because they were so worried about upsetting the police!! A ban from the 19th century till the late 1950's!

Mass-start events were illegal for years. Even now, there are many many hoops to jump through to get the necessary permissions for a road race.

TTs were frowned upon as well, hence the traditional early starts and cryptic names for courses.

The UK's attitude to road racing is best summed up by the dreadful events in the Tour of Britain a few years ago, when the route entered North Yorkshire and had to be neutralised as police permission hadn't been gained in advance, and could not be given on the day.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Andy Fenn is annoyed to have been left out. That list has potential to make a pretty good team for one day races though (especially on cobbles). Apart from Cummings they are all still improving.

My apologies to Andy Fenn. I probably meant him rather than Andy Tennant the Team Pursuiter. Though at this stage, we are still assessing all the riders, and both Andys are more than welcome to attend the metaphorical training camps. A bit of competition for places is never a bad thing!

 

[MatParker117]

To be fair, Wiggo, is that not true of ANY country beyond the absolute cycling heartland - benelux, and grand tour country? Is that not sort of a truism of sport generally? More Aussies and Kiwis watch soccer because of the recent world cup success, chinese watch snooker because of Fu and Ling:

Britain doesn't reallygive a toss about the America' Cup - If Ainslee comes close to winning it, they'll suddenly all be glued - it's just human nature.

But as for Britain and cycling - the recent explosion of interest was undoubtedly started, not by Wiggins, but by Cav - Wiggins has certainly raised it another several notches, and Sky are trying to piggyback the whole thing- but the first niche-to-mainstream moment of this 'cycle' was Cav, rather than wiggins.

Started with the success on the track at the Beijing games and then continued with Cav's success in the tour (he was going to lead Sky at one point but that's another story). Wiggo's yellow jersey and the success on the road and in the velodrome at London has taken it further.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

IT will be interesting to see if Classics success for any British rider will even be noticed in the UK. I have a feeling that if Thomas was to win Paris Roubaix it would barely merit a mention in the British media. Hardly anyone here has even heard of the race.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

IT will be interesting to see if Classics success for any British rider will even be noticed in the UK. I have a feeling that if Thomas was to win Paris Roubaix it would barely merit a mention in the British media. Hardly anyone here has even heard of the race.

Indeed. UK attention on the Classics is such that Roger Hammond is more well known for his appalling shirt choices whilst in the studio for this year's Vuelta coverage than for this Classics/one day race performances.

Slightly tongue in cheek comment, obviously! His shirts were bad, though...

 

[MartinGT]

Must have missed the bit where the unknown and ignored Cav won BBC sports personality of the year, then....

British road cycling has gone in flashes - Simpson, Hoben, Robinson - MillarR, Yates - arguably Millar D, Boardman - Cav, Wiggins, Froome -Clearly this is the biggest they've ever been on the road - but there's no need to over do it on the 'Brit's know nothing about cycling'- there's a pretty long history of Track success for starters.

Have you even read my post?

Dont wade in mate. When Cav won the WC hardly anything was said by the BBC. The SPOTY is different, they host it and of course they are going to five it airtime IN DECEMBER NOT SEPTEMBER WHEN THE WC IS

 

[onetofifteen]

Oi!! Hand's off!!

"My passport's green. No glass of ours was ever raised. To toast The Queen. "

To misquote - Our boys were doped to the gills and racing up mountains when they were still doing cave paintings!

Remarkable that back before the UK had won a major cycling race of note, Ireland - a much smaller country with little interest in cycling - had won a world championship, all three grand tours and four of he five monuments. And mostly before epo so has some bit of sporting merit.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

When Cav won the WC hardly anything was said by the BBC.

If memory serves, there was pretty much full coverage of the WCs by the Beeb last year. Certainly on the "red button" and on the internet. I'm pretty sure that BBC2 showed most, if not all of the mens road race, though this might have just been on the red button. Either way, the whole event and particularly Cav's race was readily accessible and actively promoted by the Beeb.

It was certainly on the news that evening as well, though not the lead sports item. Football is football, after all.

 

[Parrulo]

Here's the long list:

Stannard
Cummings
Rowe
Dowsett
Swift
Tennant
JTL
Blythe
Thomas
Kennaugh

You could make a decent race squad out of that lot, particularly if other countries also arbitrarily lost their three best riders!

are you really comparing the depth on UK cycling with the depth of the big 4(belgium, italy, spain and france)?

take away their 3 best riders and all of those cept maybe france would still be able to form much much stronger squads. also all those riders you listed are fairly young, most are even u25 with nothing but hype to back them up.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

are you really comparing the depth on UK cycling with the depth of the big 4(belgium, italy, spain and france)?

take away their 3 best riders and all of those cept maybe france would still be able to form much much stronger squads. also all those riders you listed are fairly young, most are even u25 with nothing but hype to back them up.

If you're good enough, you're old enough. Stannard and JTL looked plenty good enough to mix it with the best of any other country in this year's WCs. Thomas has already shown a decent pedigree on the road, as have Swift and Cummings.

I'm not comparing the strength in depth to the other European nations. I'm simply highlighting that even without Wiggo, Cav and Froome, there's a decent number of very good UK road riders. Major race squads are generally single digits in terms of numbers, so you don't necessarily need strength in depth; you just need your best guys to be fit, motivated and in form at the same time (though strength in depth can help promote this, it clearly doesn't guarantee it, as the French demostrate all too clearly.)

I thought I was clear that my squad would only be reasonably competitive, not the equivalent of the all-conquering Copenhagen squad.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I don't really see the point of this: yes cycling isn't very popular in the UK and doesn't get a lot of mainstream media coverage outside of the Tour and Olympics.

Personally I think it's a good thing so I can watch it on Eurosport and not on one of the bigger channels wheeling out commentators who don't know a lot or just talk rubbish.

But so what, how does this relate to the topic in anyway?

And yes there is some strength-in-depth in British cycling beyond Wiggins and Froome but we're a country that has only ever had pro-riders that you could count with the fingers from one hand, so the number and talent of them is very impressive to me.

As has been pointed out, the culture in cycling was different in Britain, with road racing banned for half a century and the focus far more on track and time trial.

Yes I did say the c-word. No I didn't meant that we don't dope because of it. FYI.

Again I fail to see why this is relevant, unless Wiggo is just taking the opportunity to deride the entire sport in this country rather than just Wiggins for once.

 

[The Hitch]

Dont wade in mate. When Cav won the WC hardly anything was said by the BBC. S

They didnt even show it lol. He was the favorite and the bbc had broadcasting rights and they relegated it to the red button.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I watched it.

Still waiting for something of any relevance to the clinic or Sky to emerge from this little guffaw at British cycling

 

[martinvickers]

I watched it.

Still waiting for something of any relevance to the clinic or Sky to emerge from this little guffaw at British cycling

relevance : motivation.

 

[armchairclimber]

Can I just point out that there are plenty of road cycling fans in the UK who have enjoyed the sport for years regardless of the fact that there haven't been many successful riders fro m the home nations. For many of us even now our cycling heroes are not UK riders.

Most of the casual observers and recent converts I know couldn't give a monkey's about team SKY...it's Cav and Wiggo that are the draw. If anything, SKY attracts negative attention because the brand and all it stands for sucks.

 

[The Hitch]

I watched it.

Still waiting for something of any relevance to the clinic or Sky to emerge from this little guffaw at British cycling

Seems to me like a digression into the popularity of the sport in the UK. The discussion on doping have taken place countless times and will no doubt take place countless times more.