Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[martinvickers]

There are many non-News Corp companies who would like nothing more than to help bring down Team Sky. The Daily Mail for example. They had a good crack at Team Sky and Brailsford in the aftermath of the USADA report and that led to the new zero-tolerance policy and the departures of Yates, Rogers, De Jongh and Julich.

There's plenty happening behind the scenes. UKADA investigations and a very senior Sky and GB cycling employee has been accused by three separate former teammates of doping during his career. He's toast. That's the next ''event'' to look foward to in the New Year.

Sky might have all the watches but we have all the time.

I wouldn't be betting the house on Sutton, to be honest, if that's who you mean. The Mail ran like a scalded cat from that story; no matter how much Daryll is repected on this forum, the Mail wouldn't run with him. The Mail generally are no f***ing use. I personally thought he should have tried the Telegraph, but it's probably too late now - Gallagher has signed on.

Sky obviously have the Times onside, Sun as well. They have the guardian and the Telegraph onside. BBC, Sky and ITV all onside.

If you mean someone other than Sutton, I'm all ears. If it is Sutton, well, we'll see, but I wouldn't be wildly hopeful.

 

[xcleigh]

That is where a rider can test himself against the best in the world. When tested against the best on the road, we found out just how much talent it took to win those track titles. It was not much.

Eh, Big Boys on the road? Best in the world, I assume you mean at doping?

 

[BroDeal]

Eh, Big Boys on the road? Best in the world, I assume you mean at doping?

Riders who were under the care of doctors like Gert Lienders.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

It would be nice then if Wiggo payed back his salary to his former employers when he didnt give it a real try?

That's not necessary because they signed him on contracts as a TT & prologue specialist / domestique, who fitted in road stuff around his track priorities. A contract he fulfilled. In 2009, he turned is attention to GC, and earned another contract on this basis. A contract he's fulfilled.

Other than in 2010, when he failed to justify his price tag, teams have got what they paid for.

 

[xcleigh]

Riders who were under the care of doctors like Gert Lienders.

And yet you're bigging up these riders innit blood, you get me! (sorry watching attack the block! sarf London innit)

 

[red_flanders]

Apologies.

I was speaking in the past tense. ie what LL had reported by avidavit. And that Sky hired that same Doctor.

I also reference the Rabobank trials which many cyclists (young) reported that Lienders administered and injected riders.

I'm not here to cause trouble but sworn avidavits and court room testimonies is very strong evidence.

I've never suggested Lienders did the same at Sky. Only that Sky hired the Doctor in question.

Fair point, thanks very much for the clarification. You're fine.

I think it would be great for the time being if you did include links and/or quotes to the stories you're referencing. There is a lot of sensitivity to this issue.

On the other side, I think folks need to realize that Sky hired a doctor who has been neck deep in doping, and that's going to raise a lot of eyebrows. I think there are valid reasons to believe Sky are clean and valid reasons to believe Sky are doping. Let the discussion continue, but with respect to the viewpoints of others. No need to antagonize.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's not necessary because they signed him on contracts as a TT & prologue specialist / domestique, who fitted in road stuff around his track priorities. A contract he fulfilled. In 2009, he turned is attention to GC, and earned another contract on this basis. A contract he's fulfilled.

Other than in 2010, when he failed to justify his price tag, teams have got what they paid for.

So he is not a true sportsman, only under the right guidance of Gert Leinders? Thanx for the conformation.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

So he is not a true sportsman, only under the right guidance of Gert Leinders? Thanx for the conformation.

I appreciate that English may not be your first language, but don't really know what this is supposed to mean or what point you're trying to make. I'd appreciate it if you tried to clarify for me.

 

[Wiggo Warrior]

That's not necessary because they signed him on contracts as a TT & prologue specialist / domestique, who fitted in road stuff around his track priorities. A contract he fulfilled. In 2009, he turned is attention to GC, and earned another contract on this basis. A contract he's fulfilled.

Other than in 2010, when he failed to justify his price tag, teams have got what they paid for.

And was threatened with demotion from leader. The team knew perfectly well they weren't getting value for money, unlike his earlier career.

 

[BroDeal]

That's not necessary because they signed him on contracts as a TT & prologue specialist / domestique, who fitted in road stuff around his track priorities. A contract he fulfilled. In 2009, he turned is attention to GC, and earned another contract on this basis. A contract he's fulfilled.

Other than in 2010, when he failed to justify his price tag, teams have got what they paid for.

Really? You are forgetting about weaseling out of his contract with Garmin. He was so committed to turning his attention to GC that he abandoned a team that was chock full of time trialists and climbers, a team that had fantastic support for the GC of GTs, sporting riders who had top gone top ten in multiple GTs. He went to a team that had no support and no experience riding for GT GCs. If Wiggins had designs on GC then one has to conclude that he was looking for something other than support riders and experience. Hiring Lienders gave us the answer to that.

 

[martinvickers]

Really? You are forgetting about weaseling out of his contract with Garmin. He was so committed to turning his attention to GC that he abandoned a team that was chock full of time trialists and climbers, a team that had fantastic support for the GC of GTs, sporting riders who had top gone top ten in multiple GTs. He went to a team that had no support and no experience riding for GT GCs. If Wiggins had designs on GC then one has to conclude that he was looking for something other than support riders and experience. Hiring Lienders gave us the answer to that.

Oh, come ON, BroDeal.

It was absolutely clear at the time he went for the massive pay rise.

 

[BroDeal]

Oh, come ON, BroDeal.

It was absolutely clear at the time he went for the massive pay rise.

Winning a GT would be worth far more than salary. The endorsements in Britain would be huge. If he had any faith that he could win then he would have stayed with the team that was far more capable of providing support.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Really? You are forgetting about weaseling out of his contract with Garmin. He was so committed to turning his attention to GC that he abandoned a team that was chock full of time trialists and climbers, a team that had fantastic support for the GC of GTs, sporting riders who had top gone top ten in multiple GTs. He went to a team that had no support and no experience riding for GT GCs. If Wiggins had designs on GC then one has to conclude that he was looking for something other than support riders and experience. Hiring Lienders gave us the answer to that.

Well, of course, he moved to Sky well before Leinders did.

He moved to Sky because he wanted to ride for a team with a bigger overall budget, ride for a British team, work with people he was used to working with and whom had delivered success for him in the past and, very possibly, because he didn't have a great relationship with JV (JV has stated in the past that he thinks Brad's a bit of a ****). Of course, I'm sure it had absolutely nothing to do with the huge salary he was given. Nothing at all.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I appreciate that English may not be your first language, but don't really know what this is supposed to mean or what point you're trying to make. I'd appreciate it if you tried to clarify for me.

Semantics, go google who Legeay is and what he thought of this years Britains Sports Personality of The Year.

When y r at it, go find what his former pupil and former teammanager of Cofidis Eric Boyer thinks of your countryman.

 

[Joachim]

Really? You are forgetting about weaseling out of his contract with Garmin. He was so committed to turning his attention to GC that he abandoned a team that was chock full of time trialists and climbers, a team that had fantastic support for the GC of GTs, sporting riders who had top gone top ten in multiple GTs. He went to a team that had no support and no experience riding for GT GCs. If Wiggins had designs on GC then one has to conclude that he was looking for something other than support riders and experience. Hiring Lienders gave us the answer to that.

What makes you think Garmin doesn't have a doping system. The DS is a self-confessed doper. The team is part owned by a convicted doper. Team stuffed full of dopers.

Get real

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Semantics, go google who Legeay is and what he thought of this years Britains Sports Personality of The Year.

When y r at it, go find what his former pupil and former teammanager of Cofidis Eric Boyer thinks of your countryman.

Really confused now. You wrote, "So he is not a true sportsman, only under the right guidance of Gert Leinders? Thanx for the conformation". I, genuinely and politely, asked for some clarity, and you've replied with the above?

Again, some clarity would be appreciated.

I've no real interest in another personal opinion on Wiggins, btw. I read enough of them around here. Some facts might be nice, though.

 

[BroDeal]

What makes you think Garmin doesn't have a doping system. The DS is a self-confessed doper. The team is part owned by a convicted doper. Team stuffed full of dopers.

Get real

At least Garmin has a history of riders on the team performing worse than they did when they were on the sauce. Sky, on the other hand, has a history of riders reaching heights above and beyond what Dr. Ferrari could deliver. I don't recall Garmin producing any Froome-like transformations, where a rider who was scrounging for any team to give him a contract is magically turned into a world beater.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I've no real interest in another personal opinion on Wiggins, btw. I read enough of them around here. Some facts might be nice, though.

Obvious u dont even know those two. Sad.

I am not going to to talk to a brick wall.

 

[Joachim]

Let's merge two emerging themes of this thread and have a look at what Eric Boyer had to say about Jonathan Vaughters..

“The code stipulated that ProTour teams were not allowed to recruit a suspended rider for a further two years, so that was two years plus two years off the circuit. Liquigas were the first to flaunt it by recruiting Basso.

After succeeding me, Vaughters decided that it was unenforceable, so he didn’t apply it. So when he makes his fine speech that ‘cycling needs to change’… Well, he had the chance to do things and he didn’t do them.

Seeing him there as if he were among those who want to change things doesn’t make a very good impression. They pushed me to resign because I wanted to do things.”

 

[martinvickers]

At least Garmin has a history of riders on the team performing worse than they did when they were on the sauce. Sky, on the other hand, has a history of riders reaching heights above and beyond what Dr. Ferrari could deliver. I don't recall Garmin producing any Froome-like transformations, where a rider who was scrounging for any team to give him a contract is magically turned into a world beater.

emmm...Wiggins in 2009, if you believe the Clinicians?

 

[Joachim]

At least Garmin has a history of riders on the team performing worse than they did when they were on the sauce. Sky, on the other hand, has a history of riders reaching heights above and beyond what Dr. Ferrari could deliver. I don't recall Garmin producing any Froome-like transformations, where a rider who was scrounging for any team to give him a contract is magically turned into a world beater.

Don't forget it was only because CVV broke his hip in 2009 that Wiggins became leader. Of course he was always going to shift to Sky. Focus of an entire team, and loads more pay

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Obvious u dont even know those two. Sad.

I am not going to to talk to a brick wall.

You could have said Merckx and Hinault, and I still wouldn't have been interested. As I said, I care not for personal opinions, but if anybody has any facts, I'll listen.

Brick walls don't make requests for clarity so they can give reasoned responses, by the way. I'm still waiting for that clarity, if you can summons it up.

 

[will10]

Let's merge two emerging themes of this thread and have a look at what Eric Boyer had to say about Jonathan Vaughters..

“The code stipulated that ProTour teams were not allowed to recruit a suspended rider for a further two years, so that was two years plus two years off the circuit. Liquigas were the first to flaunt it by recruiting Basso.

After succeeding me, Vaughters decided that it was unenforceable, so he didn’t apply it. So when he makes his fine speech that ‘cycling needs to change’… Well, he had the chance to do things and he didn’t do them.

Seeing him there as if he were among those who want to change things doesn’t make a very good impression. They pushed me to resign because I wanted to do things.”

This has nothing to do with Sky and should be in the JV thread.

 

[Froome19]

Froome19 for this post you win a free copy of "might as well win".

Are you arguing with me or arguing with your own inner reason?

Are you really suggesting that LL's sworn avidaviet that was crossed checked to Grand Jury testimony is fiddlesticks?

After everything cycling has been through you're not only defending Lienders but the testimonies that rid the sport of Armstrong are false.

Heaven help us.

I cannot believe what I'm reading.

All I am saying is that nothing is assured, unlike your post suggested.

 

[dolophonic]

Out of interest why do people say Sky is a British team ? They are owned by an Aussie and ride Italian bikes... the whole Jingoistic attitude that has been manufactured is starting to smell really bad.