Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[will10]

Monfort was on the late night talk show 'Vive le Velo' on Flemish television and pointed towards the training methods & material, also stating that they are not doped due to the biological passport. So he denies doping is involved.

It's not so long ago that the 50% rule "prevented" doping.

 

[Red Rick]

Monfort was on the late night talk show 'Vive le Velo' on Flemish television and pointed towards the training methods & material, also stating that they are not doped due to the biological passport. So he denies doping is involved.

Omerta, Omerta, Omerta

 

[maxmartin]

Monfort was on the late night talk show 'Vive le Velo' on Flemish television and pointed towards the training methods & material, also stating that they are not doped due to the biological passport. So he denies doping is involved.

what training method? swimming coach method? if he already knew this method, why not he also used this method?

 

[roundabout]

Monfort was on the late night talk show 'Vive le Velo' on Flemish television and pointed towards the training methods & material, also stating that they are not doped due to the biological passport. So he denies doping is involved.

Today?

Talking about Sky?

 

[hrotha]

Monfort was on the late night talk show 'Vive le Velo' on Flemish television and pointed towards the training methods & material, also stating that they are not doped due to the biological passport. So he denies doping is involved.

Monfort takes us for idiots if he's saying you can't dope because of the biological passport.

What's happening here is that they're speaking in code for a reason: they don't feel free to speak openly. Of course they'll deny doping is involved.

 

[Caruut]

First they said it was weight loss, and I did not speak out -
Because I believed in miracles.

Then they said it was sacrifice, and I did not speak out -
Because they said they did not like doping.

Then they said I was just jealous, and I did not speak out -
Because I had no solid proof.

Then they won the Tour - and there was nothing left to say.

 

[djerkson]

what training method? swimming coach method? if he already knew this method, why not he also used this method?

He didn't get a chance to answer. What do you expect? That he will state 'Yes, I think they are on to some new stuff'? Well, cyclists are like a small family, they will never accuse openly unless their name is Bassons and we all know how he went down, the poor guy.
The problem here is we want to read his answer as 'yes, they are from another planet, which means they are doped', but he probably meant something like 'these guys are absolute world class, my time trial is good, but compared to those guys, I'm just a normal cyclist. They are world class, I am ok with being top 10'.

 

[glassmoon]

Yeah..like they are ever gonna release todays numbers from Froome

the numbers should be "calculatable"

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Don't post much in the clinic these days but after what I saw today sent me straight here.

Wow, just...wow.

 

[djerkson]

Today?

Talking about Sky?

Tonight, on the late night talk show on National television, actually about 30 minutes ago. Yes, the interviewer was hinting towards his expression after his time trial where he said 'those guys (F + W) are from another planet'.

 

[djerkson]

Monfort takes us for idiots if he's saying you can't dope because of the biological passport.

What's happening here is that they're speaking in code for a reason: they don't feel free to speak openly. Of course they'll deny doping is involved.

A good answer...I hope it's not true, but I don't know what to believe...

 

[maxmartin]

He didn't get a chance to answer. What do you expect? That he will state 'Yes, I think they are on to some new stuff'? Well, cyclists are like a small family, they will never accuse openly unless their name is Bassons and we all know how he went down, the poor guy.
The problem here is we want to read his answer as 'yes, they are from another planet, which means they are doped', but he probably meant something like 'these guys are absolute world class, my time trial is good, but compared to those guys, I'm just a normal cyclist. They are world class, I am ok with being top 10'.

how is his facial expression and tone then?

 

[roundabout]

Tonight, on the late night talk show on National television, actually about 30 minutes ago. Yes, the interviewer was hinting towards his expression after his time trial where he said 'those guys (F + W) are from another planet'.

Thanks. So at least the official line is that there is some advantage through training. Wonder if there will be a long line of people looking at Kerrison/other Sky staff/people with records of turning things around in other sports or it was just a polite way of avoiding any doping allegations and people would wait for Sky to get caught or have a quite word behind the scenes.

 

[Franklin]

'these guys are absolute world class, my time trial is good, but compared to those guys, I'm just a normal cyclist. They are world class, I am ok with being top 10'.

I'm pretty sure that's what he, Udo and Marco meant and I'm not being sarcastic here. Udo and Marco definitely were on their own programs, so the hypocrisy would be thick indeed.

But there is an undeniable thing that the last times these exact words were used it was very wrong indeed (Unless you are Wiggo and believe in Lance's innocence).

We can repeat the parallels until we are blue in the face and the apologists will wave them away without daring to touch the real questions as there isn't a good answer. The amusing part here is that so far it's undeniable facts against faith. There is no "I saw them do it", but the oddities are quite numerous.

The believers have to resort to cadence (I mean core strength), organisation, profesionality, reconnaisance, hard training, weight loss etc. every single argument is a perfect carbon copy from USPS.

The quacking of the ducks is quite loud

 

[maxmartin]

Don't post much in the clinic these days but after what I saw today sent me straight here.

Wow, just...wow.

welcome to the new cycling ear of SKY

 

[Maxiton]

__________________
Either SKY put us into future or put us back ten years. Only time will tell.

I'm sorry, but I find your signature naive, unless by "time" you mean five minutes. If the cheating weren't ridiculously blatant, if it were simply a matter of waiting for tests or a revelation of some sort, we wouldn't be in here, most of us, having this reaction.

Most long term fans give riders the benefit of doubt where they can, are able to suspend their disbelief where they can't, and expect and tolerate a little bit of doping in any case. Why? Because we enjoy the sport, and want to continue enjoying it. It takes a real sham, one that says we aren't respected, to get us talking about turning our backs on the sport. Nobody wants to watch a joke. Well, I don't, anyway.

I suppose pro wrestling does have its fans, but I'm not one. And with this Tour pro wrestling is exactly the company this sport keeps.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Don't post much in the clinic these days but after what I saw today sent me straight here.

Wow, just...wow.

Don't post in the clinic at all, but I had exactly the same reaction today. Utter disbelief, especially Froome after yesterday. This Tour is already over, sadly.

 

[ggusta]

Ok, will certainly do

Apparently, this little back and forth inspired a thread. Ridoclous or something. I guess my thoughts are so ridicolous it has like 60 responses! Anyhoo, AC is handicapped by being under a very watchful eye and apparently SKY is 'free to fly' and that had a lot to do with my comparison. All 'training' being equal it's not really equal on a TT or a hill, imo. But, I will be very keen to see how he does (AC) upon his return. I'll reserve judgment until probably next spring.

 

[taiwan]

Yeah. Maybe. You can find individual rationalisations for individual bits of Sky shredding the peloton, but taken in total, it's ridiculous.

This. Fanboys are aguing that everyone else is just going slow, rather than this one suspect team going fast. Bull$hit. It's a duck.

 

[ggusta]

Don't post in the clinic at all, but I had exactly the same reaction today. Utter disbelief, especially Froome after yesterday. This Tour is already over, sadly.

Kind of a mockery, imo.

 

[Maxiton]

How would you guys feel about drafting a letter to ASO, signing it jointly, and sending it to them?

 

[Netserk]

How would you guys feel about drafting a letter to ASO, signing it jointly, and sending it to them?

Good idea, though I doubt it will help
To me it doesn't look like ASO wants it stopped

 

[rkp5097]

I've been watching the tour since the Lemond, Fignon showdown in the final T.T in Paris.
I loved Indurain but toward the end I wanted to see him crack, just to give someone else a chance. During the middle of the Armstrong years, when I became aware of how he was achieving his incredible success, I was desperate to see him crack. I admire Armstrong's achievements and I know others doped but his domination while so brazenly adopting the methods he did poisoned the sport in a way nobody else had.
One of the big problems for the sport now, is that the cyclists we admired when we first got turned on to the sport, have often turned out to be dopers.
I never wore a yellow armband, purchased 'It's about the bike' or god forbid donated to the Fairness for Floyd fund, but if I had, I'd probably be as reluctant to accept anyone's success at face value - cycling as a whole is suffering from the fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you syndrome.
I'd be surprised if Sky were involved in systematic doping, I don't see it with Brailsford or Wiggins - the suggestion that Wiggins denials mirror Armstrong's is difficult to justify, Wiggins seems genuinely angry, Lance was just going throw the motions as he thought, accurately as it turned out, he was untouchable.
Finally, I really don't understand why Sky are being singled before they've enjoyed any concrete success, usually it takes at least one G.T win before so many people go mad on the forums

 

[Epicycle]

Don't post much in the clinic these days but after what I saw today sent me straight here.

Wow, just...wow.

Yeah and it doesn't help that Sky have brought a sketchy former Rabo doctor on board, Geert Leinders. A guy who's been in the sport since 1986 and who was the chief doc during at least the late 1990s.

 

[Mr Pumpy]

So let me get this right....

Consensus of all the yapping little poodles on this forum is that the Sky team are doping, and this is obvious because Wiggins is in yellow. It must be doping because the eight time Olympic and Worlds Gold medallist, Wiggins, has 'come from nowhere'

It is even more obvious because on one very shallow climb Sky held off all but a few people. The fact that the two major contenders for the race, Contador and Schleck, aren't present is irrelevant.

Nor is the fact that if Sky are doping, then it is almost certain that most of the other major players are too, in exactly the same way that all of the victims of US Postals cheating (those blown away on the climbs) were themselves dopers. Yeah, nobody could keep up with Postal, not even the...err....other dopers.

You guys are so facile it isn't true. You are also very glibly discounting one huge possibility, and that is that Wiggins isn't doping. In which case what Wiggins said about you, for it is you he is talking about,, is true, and you are exactly what he says you are.