Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[SaxonUK]

So let me get this right....

Consensus of all the yapping little poodles on this forum is that the Sky team are doping, and this is obvious because Wiggins is in yellow. It must be doping because the eight time Olympic and Worlds Gold medallist, Wiggins, has 'come from nowhere'

It is even more obvious because on one very shallow climb Sky held off all but a few people. The fact that the two major contenders for the race, Contador and Schleck, aren't present is irrelevant.

Nor is the fact that if Sky are doping, then it is almost certain that most of the other major players are too, in exactly the same way that all of the victims of US Postals cheating (those blown away on the climbs) were themselves dopers. Yeah, nobody could keep up with Postal, not even the...err....other dopers.

You guys are so facile it isn't true. You are also very glibly discounting one huge possibility, and that is that Wiggins isn't doping. In which case what Wiggins said about you, for it is you he is talking about,, is true, and you are exactly what he says you are.

You never mentioned Froome, who puts a much more suspicious performance in with every days racing

 

[gustienordic]

I am in no means a Wiggins fanboy, if anything I want Nibali to win, but the fact that everyone jumps to "he's cheating" right away disgusts me. Wiggins can TT. We already KNEW that. Froome can also apparently, which we had a good glimpse of in the Vuelta. Yes their team time trial on the first mountain stage was a little ridiculous, but its not that surprising. Evans hasn't been on the same form he was last year, Froome is great at short steep climbs, and Rodgers and Porte are crazy good domestiques. RSNT also had a ton of guys up there (admittedly not as high) but no one is looking at Zubledia and shouting cheater.

Sky can pull of the kind of domination they have because they simply have that good of a team. Thats what happens when you are rich.

Porte, Rodgers, Froome, Wiggins & even Siutsou are all capable of getting top 10 in a GT. They just have a crazy good team.

Contador isn't racing, J-Rod is not, Schleck is not, Sanchez was injured right beforehand, etc...

 

[Parrot23]

On Froome I see Brailsford says this:

"His rise to notoriety was hampered by bilharzia, a water-borne disease he caught in 2010.

"He showed some fantastic numbers in training and the question for us was why did he not perform like he did in the Vuelta before. But he got this disease and once he got on top of that his performances improved," Brailsford said. "What he is doing on the Tour is just a continuation of what he did at the Vuelta last year. Had he not punctured (earlier in the race) he would be right up there with Bradley, and the biggest challenger would have been within the team."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/more/2012/07/09/tour_de_france_team_sky_bradley_wiggins_christopher_froome/

 

[taiwan]

...[blah]...

Nor is the fact that if Sky are doping, then it is almost certain that most of the other major players are too, in exactly the same way that all of the victims of US Postals cheating (those blown away on the climbs) were themselves dopers. Yeah, nobody could keep up with Postal, not even the...err....other dopers.

You guys are so facile it isn't true. You are also very glibly discounting one huge possibility, and that is that Wiggins isn't doping. In which case what Wiggins said about you, for it is you he is talking about,, is true, and you are exactly what he says you are.

So are they or aren't they?

 

[Parrot23]

Evans hasn't been on the same form he was last year....

Contador isn't racing, J-Rod is not, Schleck is not....

+1. Yes, that's true. The differences aren't as big as they mass hysteria implies around here.

 

[Hugh Januss]

So let me get this right....

Consensus of all the yapping little poodles on this forum is that the Sky team are doping, and this is obvious because Wiggins is in yellow. It must be doping because the eight time Olympic and Worlds Gold medallist, Wiggins, has 'come from nowhere'

It is even more obvious because on one very shallow climb Sky held off all but a few people. The fact that the two major contenders for the race, Contador and Schleck, aren't present is irrelevant.

Nor is the fact that if Sky are doping, then it is almost certain that most of the other major players are too, in exactly the same way that all of the victims of US Postals cheating (those blown away on the climbs) were themselves dopers. Yeah, nobody could keep up with Postal, not even the...err....other dopers.

You guys are so facile it isn't true. You are also very glibly discounting one huge possibility, and that is that Wiggins isn't doping. In which case what Wiggins said about you, for it is you he is talking about,, is true, and you are exactly what he says you are.

No you got it wrong, the "yapping little poodles" still don't think that Lance doped. Or if they admit they think he did then they quickly point out that "everyone was doing it".
I would say the possibility that Wiggins is clean exists, but given the evidence I don't think I would characterize it as a "huge" possibility.

 

[Cobber]

Don't post much in the clinic these days but after what I saw today sent me straight here.

Wow, just...wow.

Don't post in the clinic at all, but I had exactly the same reaction today. Utter disbelief, especially Froome after yesterday. This Tour is already over, sadly.

Me too........

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Finally, I really don't understand why Sky are being singled before they've enjoyed any concrete success, usually it takes at least one G.T win before so many people go mad on the forums

So far this year they've dominated Algarve, Paris-Nice, Romandie, Bayern, Norway, the Dauphiné and now the Tour. Usually with the same group of guys who have not dropped a moment's form since February. They've enjoyed plenty of concrete success, otherwise known as "every stage race they've sent the A team to this year". We're already bored.

It is even more obvious because on one very shallow climb Sky held off all but a few people. The fact that the two major contenders for the race, Contador and Schleck, aren't present is irrelevant.

Planche des Belles Filles is nearly 9%. That's about as steep as the Tour musters, bearing in mind it doesn't use its monsters like Val Pelouse, Errozate or Mont du Chat.

If that's a "very shallow" climb, then I assume you thought all races not organised by Angelo Zomegnan were flat time triallists' races.

 

[Mr Pumpy]

So are they or aren't they?

Only they know. I don't, you don't, and nor does anybody else on this forum, and unlike Postal there is not even the slightest thread of evidence that they are, and so people should stop speculating as if it is already known.

 

[thehog]

So let me get this right....

Consensus of all the yapping little poodles on this forum is that the Sky team are doping, and this is obvious because Wiggins is in yellow. It must be doping because the eight time Olympic and Worlds Gold medallist, Wiggins, has 'come from nowhere'

It is even more obvious because on one very shallow climb Sky held off all but a few people. The fact that the two major contenders for the race, Contador and Schleck, aren't present is irrelevant.

Nor is the fact that if Sky are doping, then it is almost certain that most of the other major players are too, in exactly the same way that all of the victims of US Postals cheating (those blown away on the climbs) were themselves dopers. Yeah, nobody could keep up with Postal, not even the...err....other dopers.

You guys are so facile it isn't true. You are also very glibly discounting one huge possibility, and that is that Wiggins isn't doping. In which case what Wiggins said about you, for it is you he is talking about,, is true, and you are exactly what he says you are.

As I’ve said before. If Wiggins, Froome and team aren’t doping then that is the most amazing natural performance I’ve ever seen in any sport anywhere in the world. It tops LeMond 89. These guys have struck upon a natural combination of sporting success like no other. They are clearly 10% better in all disciplines than any other team or rider in the peloton. Its incredible. Nobody can take this Tour from them. That’s how far they are behind. They are 10% ahead of last years Tour winner, 10% better than the greatest time trailer of all time and 5 of their riders are pushing 10% more watts on climbs than any other team. Incredible, amazing natural performance. Which means if they’re this good clean then no one else in the peloton can be doping. Zero doping. Because if they were they’d at least be close to the natural performing Sky,

 

[iZnoGouD]

Cancellara is little bit far from top form, he will probably win next TT

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

You never mentioned Froome, who puts a much more suspicious performance in with every days racing

Froome isn't doing anything he didn't do in the Vuelta. Fair enough if you want to say that performance was suspicious but he hasn't suddenly come out of nowhere here.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Only they know. I don't, you don't, and nor does anybody else on this forum, and unlike Postal there is not even the slightest thread of evidence that they are, and so people should stop speculating as if it is already known.

speculate - definition
1[intransitive/transitive] to consider or discuss why something has happened or what might happen

Once it becomes "known" there is no more speculation. So this is in fact the perfect time for speculation.

 

[ggusta]

So let me get this right....

Consensus of all the yapping little poodles on this forum is that the Sky team are doping, and this is obvious because Wiggins is in yellow. It must be doping because the eight time Olympic and Worlds Gold medallist, Wiggins, has 'come from nowhere'

It is even more obvious because on one very shallow climb Sky held off all but a few people. The fact that the two major contenders for the race, Contador and Schleck, aren't present is irrelevant.

Nor is the fact that if Sky are doping, then it is almost certain that most of the other major players are too, in exactly the same way that all of the victims of US Postals cheating (those blown away on the climbs) were themselves dopers. Yeah, nobody could keep up with Postal, not even the...err....other dopers.

You guys are so facile it isn't true. You are also very glibly discounting one huge possibility, and that is that Wiggins isn't doping. In which case what Wiggins said about you, for it is you he is talking about,, is true, and you are exactly what he says you are.

Go read my posts before you paint in broad strokes with such ignorance.

 

[richtea]

Which means if they’re this good clean then no one else in the peloton can be doping.

This conclusion can't be derived from the premises.

 

[The Cobra]

http://www.sportsscientists.com/201...gn=Feed:+blogspot/cJKs+(The+Science+of+Sport)

Sky aren't doing anything extraterrestrial. The doping talk here has gone out of control! The power numbers are believable, Wiggins has always been a talent. Froome kind of came from no where, but if Wiggins is clean I highly doubt Sky would be letting Froome go 'rogue' on his own doping program.

Seriously what is Sky's competition in this Tour. Schleck, please. Evans, on good form again but he's lost his edge compared to last year that is clear. Is it because he has a baby now, or because he's already won the Tour and some of the hunger has gone. The rest are either past there prime (Menchov), crashed out or are second rate GC men (Monfort). There is only one benchmark in this era to compare Sky to and that is Alberto Contador. Next year will be something special if all turn up on top form.

Everyone mocked Sky's marginal gains theories at the start, and the first year they were over confident, arrogant and didnt put the work in. Now they're still arrogant but can at least back it up with results. Everyone in contention for the Tour team has had to dedicate their entire lives to this. Spending all winter in Mallorca and the rest of the year in Tenerife or away racing together. Everything is closely controlled. Every last detail taken care of. Every training ride carefully planned. All these guys have done is eat, sleep, train and race together. This really is a professionalism that no other team has. How many people mocked Wiggins for warming down on the turbo after a road stage? Now everyone does it! I think we will see more teams copying Sky's methods next year.

 

[SaxonUK]

Froome isn't doing anything he didn't do in the Vuelta. Fair enough if you want to say that performance was suspicious but he hasn't suddenly come out of nowhere here.

No, he suddenly came up in the Vuelta, and by suddenly I mean, nothing worth mentioning so far as his previous race finishes, and to end up in 2nd your first Vuelta, well, if he's not doping then he must be doing something no one else has even thought of trying

Pointing to an already suspicious result in order to justify this suspicious result isn't that sensible.

 

[Thee_chisa]

No, he suddenly came up in the Vuelta, and by suddenly I mean, nothing worth mentioning so far as his previous race finishes, and to end up in 2nd your first Vuelta, well, if he's not doping then he must be doing something no one else has even thought of trying

Pointing to an already suspicious result in order to justify this suspicious result isn't that sensible.

not true, froome has been around for a few years, but has had massive inconsistency.

 

[Parrot23]

Cancellara is little bit far from top form, he will probably win next TT

Yes, true. Why would he otherwise talk about having to get his confidence back. He was shaken by Martin last year, and by the lingering effects of the injury this year.

Cancellara talking about his confidence, LOL, that's pretty unusual. People should pay attention: he's had some knocks.

He's building still for the Olympics. He's not quite accurate as the comparator today, Van Garderen and Chavenel were close to him.

 

[Thee_chisa]

http://www.sportsscientists.com/201...gn=Feed:+blogspot/cJKs+(The+Science+of+Sport)

Sky aren't doing anything extraterrestrial. The doping talk here has gone out of control! The power numbers are believable, Wiggins has always been a talent. Froome kind of came from no where, but if Wiggins is clean I highly doubt Sky would be letting Froome go 'rogue' on his own doping program.

Seriously what is Sky's competition in this Tour. Schleck, please. Evans, on good form again but he's lost his edge compared to last year that is clear. Is it because he has a baby now, or because he's already won the Tour and some of the hunger has gone. The rest are either past there prime (Menchov), crashed out or are second rate GC men (Monfort). There is only one benchmark in this era to compare Sky to and that is Alberto Contador. Next year will be something special if all turn up on top form.

Everyone mocked Sky's marginal gains theories at the start, and the first year they were over confident, arrogant and didnt put the work in. Now they're still arrogant but can at least back it up with results. Everyone in contention for the Tour team has had to dedicate their entire lives to this. Spending all winter in Mallorca and the rest of the year in Tenerife or away racing together. Everything is closely controlled. Every last detail taken care of. Every training ride carefully planned. All these guys have done is eat, sleep, train and race together. This really is a professionalism that no other team has. How many people mocked Wiggins for warming down on the turbo after a road stage? Now everyone does it! I think we will see more teams copying Sky's methods next year.

+1 the post to end all posts.

 

[Thee_chisa]

Yes, it's obvious. Why would he otherwise talk about having to get his confidence back. He was shaken by Martin last year, and by the lingering effects of the injury this year. He's building still for the Olympics.

and wiggins beat him in the world champs last year

 

[SaxonUK]

not true, froome has been around for a few years, but has had massive inconsistency.

Been around a few years getting pretty insignificant results, then suddenly he's in the top 3 of the Tour...

 

[Thee_chisa]

Been around a few years getting pretty insignificant results, then suddenly he's in the top 3 of the Tour...

considering he had undiagnosed bilharzia for years it is hardly surprising

oh wait...that is a conspiracy as well

 

[djerkson]

Thanks. So at least the official line is that there is some advantage through training. Wonder if there will be a long line of people looking at Kerrison/other Sky staff/people with records of turning things around in other sports or it was just a polite way of avoiding any doping allegations and people would wait for Sky to get caught or have a quite word behind the scenes.

Well, the opinion of the belgian connaisseurs is 'they are clean'. Michel Wuyts today stated during live coverage 'He (Wiggins) is like Armstrong, but in a good way'. If Wiggins was Spanish, it would have been a different thing.

As for another opinion, yesterday when Vanendert was in command on the 'Cote de la Croix', Porte & Rogers were quickly thrown overboard, so Sky isn't all that overwhelming when you consider things that way. We'll have to see how things turn out in the next few days. As for now, I will give Sky the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.sportsscientists.com/201...gn=Feed:+blogspot/cJKs+(The+Science+of+Sport)

Sky aren't doing anything extraterrestrial. The doping talk here has gone out of control! The power numbers are believable, Wiggins has always been a talent. Froome kind of came from no where, but if Wiggins is clean I highly doubt Sky would be letting Froome go 'rogue' on his own doping program.

Seriously what is Sky's competition in this Tour. Schleck, please. Evans, on good form again but he's lost his edge compared to last year that is clear. Is it because he has a baby now, or because he's already won the Tour and some of the hunger has gone. The rest are either past there prime (Menchov), crashed out or are second rate GC men (Monfort). There is only one benchmark in this era to compare Sky to and that is Alberto Contador. Next year will be something special if all turn up on top form.

Everyone mocked Sky's marginal gains theories at the start, and the first year they were over confident, arrogant and didnt put the work in. Now they're still arrogant but can at least back it up with results. Everyone in contention for the Tour team has had to dedicate their entire lives to this. Spending all winter in Mallorca and the rest of the year in Tenerife or away racing together. Everything is closely controlled. Every last detail taken care of. Every training ride carefully planned. All these guys have done is eat, sleep, train and race together. This really is a professionalism that no other team has. How many people mocked Wiggins for warming down on the turbo after a road stage? Now everyone does it! I think we will see more teams copying Sky's methods next year.

Have we seen that before?