Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Catwhoorg]

Clearly, he knows nothing about the subject.

Not saying he doesn't have a good background, but the truth about science (pretty much any science) is that two (or more) experts can look at the same data and draw different conclusions.

One trots out for the prosecution, one for the defense, which is right ?



On top of that sometimes the scientists have their own agendas to promote
See climate change for a great example.

 

[D Avoid]

He has been banned. Should quieten down for a while

Surely if he is asked all these questions he should be allowed to reply, in doing so he would then drop the reason for his till death loyalty to sWiggins and the gang and then all his posts get deleted, leaving a historical hole hemispherically unadjustable to anyone other than an above average Antipodean, where apparently the sun still shines on the setting of an empire!!

 

[norwegian]

Dirty doctor, dirty riders, abnormal passports, 4 team mates improving hugely at the same time, what more do you need?





http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rabobank-tolerated-doping-on-cycling-team-de-rooy-claims





http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ucis-suspicious-list-leaked-from-2010-tour-de-france

EBH: 0, Zero.

 

[Falken]

5 ...Bradley Wiggins

6 ...Christian Knees... Geraint Thomas

7 ...Michael Rogers

8 ...Kanstantsin Siutsou

Just to be clear, Knees, Rogers and Sivtsou were not with Sky 2010. All Sky riders had under 6, the suspicious threshold, except Geraint Thomas.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

EBH: 0, Zero.

Di Gregorio a 2...

EBH is a great talent, bad team though.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Di Gregorio a 2...

EBH is a great talent, bad team though.

It must also be said that EBH has not been a part of the tenerife group has he?

 

[norwegian]

Di Gregorio a 2...

EBH is a great talent, bad team though.

Edvald is the ONLY athlete in the world, including norwegians, who I would put my head on the block for and say: If he is doped, cut it of.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Edvald is the ONLY athlete in the world, including norwegians, who I would put my head on the block for and say: If he is doped, cut it of.

I certainly get the impression he is clean but I am just wondering why you are so sure as opposed to other sportsmen/women. The only person I would ever say that about is me since I can't vouch for anyone else with certainty (not saying I have any sporting ability of course).

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Edvald is the ONLY athlete in the world, including norwegians, who I would put my head on the block for and say: If he is doped, cut it of.

I am not in any way suggesting anything about Boassan Hagen here, but as a general rule, history suggests that investing that much hope and belief in any athlete probably isn't a very good idea.

 

[Falken]

it is reported that Raas gave Leinders Carte Blanche around 1999 as long as he kept it somewhat save. This has not been disputed by either Raas, Leinders or the Rabobank. If you do a "Raas-Leinders" Google you will find these claims. I haven't found the source yet (I think it's an article of journalist Wagendorp), but as I said, this is undisputed by all parties involved.

Cyclingnews has the important info about 2003-2007.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rabobank-tolerated-doping-on-cycling-team-de-rooy-claims

Let me point out something revealing:

Theo de Rooy who was team manager from 2003 to 2007, did not deny that there was doping on the team. “If it happened, it was a deliberate decision by the medical staff,”

Once again: Undisputed by anyone involved.

Added to this are things like:

- Breukink, De rooij and leinders knew of Rasmussen whereabouts and did not report this (fraud). They were aware of Rasmussen extra- medical care and didn't stop it. <=> if we look at the role of the medical staff, the knowledge and this case it should set all alarms.
- Somehow they were not aware of the Humanplasma case. I'm quite frankly absolutely not convinced that a doctor did not notice this of his riders, especially seen his given role (namely to monitor and dope in a healthy manner). And yes, there are plenty of reports (including Floyd) about Boogie being a charger.

Lastly, before you wonder; I think Breukink should be banned from the sport.

Very hard to comment on this, lot of unsubstantiated claims and presumptions. Is Rooy trying save the team managements *** by accusing the medical staff ? Also hard to say what Leinders knew, how much he was in on it, if he was active in supplying doping products or not. And there are riders who were penalized for seeking medical care outside the team structure? How should this be interpreted? Medical staff on the team couldn't help with (good enough) doping?

I agree that Leinders has a history that seems a bit fishy. Exactly how fishy that history is is hard to say. And even if it draws suspicion it doesn't prove that Leinders is doing something wrong with Sky now because of what happened (or didn't happened) at Rabobank.

I feel that there isn't enough facts on the table to really say something substantial. I will refrain from discussing the topic further. Thanks for link btw.

 

[norwegian]

I certainly get the impression he is clean but I am just wondering why you are so sure as opposed to other sportsmen/women. The only person I would ever say that about is me since I can't vouch for anyone else with certainty (not saying I have any sporting ability of course).

Your question, and my statement, can not be answered or explained in a rational way, of course. Then I had to BE him, and I am not. But it is about the whole PERSON EBH. Generally, I believe that a rider is clean, to he is proven not. But Edvald is, as I said, the only one I would literally put my head on the block for.

 

[norwegian]

I am not in any way suggesting anything about Boassan Hagen here, but as a general rule, history suggests that investing that much hope and belief in any athlete probably isn't a very good idea.

I know. But in this case, I am doing it.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I miss wonderlance.

 

[Falken]

Your question, and my statement, can not be answered or explained in a rational way, of course. Then I had to BE him, and I am not. But it is about the whole PERSON EBH. Generally, I believe that a rider is clean, to he is proven not. But Edvald is, as I said, the only one I would literally put my head on the block for.

Among Sky riders I would also include Löfkvist. Followed the guy since he became pro, smal steps of improvement year by year, never any sudden and super spectacular performances.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Your question, and my statement, can not be answered or explained in a rational way, of course. Then I had to BE him, and I am not. But it is about the whole PERSON EBH. Generally, I believe that a rider is clean, to he is proven not. But Edvald is, as I said, the only one I would literally put my head on the block for.

Actually, I do understand what you mean and I have a similar outlook to some degree. When it gets to the point that you have given up hope on everyone then perhaps you best find something else.

 

[Franklin]

Very hard to comment on this, lot of unsubstantiated claims and presumptions. Is Rooy trying save the team managements *** by accusing the medical staff ?

LMAO... you don't understand! The management team of Rabo was:

Breukink
De Rooij
Leinders

Also hard to say what Leinders knew, how much he was in on it, if he was active in supplying doping products or not. And there are riders who were penalized for seeking medical care outside the team structure? How should this be interpreted? Medical staff on the team couldn't help with (good enough) doping?

Ok, I'm not sure how you somehow can interpret this all as not being extremely incriminating for Leinders.

Leinders was responsible and most certainly knew of Rasmussen whereabouts (check out the judicial papers). => FRAUD
Leinders was member of the management and head medical staff. their responsibility was to help riders dope responsible.
Raas gave Leinders Carte Blanche to get him a GT winner.

Maybe I should repeat this one: This is undisputed by anyone involved.

I agree that Leinders has a history that seems a bit fishy. Exactly how fishy that history is is hard to say. And even if it draws suspicion it doesn't prove that Leinders is doing something wrong with Sky now because of what happened (or didn't happened) at Rabobank.

Do you want me to trot out the exact quote of Bradley Wiggins how he himself thought of this in 2007? Oh and what certainly did happen in 2007 at Rabo should be enough to humble any medical team.

How are you going to spin that one?

I feel that there isn't enough facts on the table to really say something substantial. I will refrain from discussing the topic further. Thanks for link btw.

I imagine that indeed you are done here. I hope you now understand my incessant questions about Leinders. It seems Bradley would have supported me in 2007.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Just to be clear, Knees, Rogers and Sivtsou were not with Sky 2010. All Sky riders had under 6, the suspicious threshold, except Geraint Thomas.

Just to be clearer, a "5" places those riders (Contador, Wiggins) just below the outright comical "overwhelming evidence of doping" - categories. It does not constitute evidence of doping, but it's a highly suspicious category to be in.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Edvald is the ONLY athlete in the world, including norwegians, who I would put my head on the block for and say: If he is doped, cut it of.

Must be a coincidence he is Norwegian off course?

Nevertheless, I HOPE Eddie B is clean, because I like him. Do not like the teams he rides/rode for. Very suspicious teams.

It seems Bradley would have supported me in 2007.

Touché.

 

[Caruut]

I tried Google, couldn't find much other than links to different forums. You have some credible links (preferably in english)? I like to read up on the guy.

Mainly Dutch news reports about Rabobank's program dating from '07 or '09. I got there by searching for "rabobank toleererde doping" and scanning for mentions of Leinders. I made a post back up the thread with about 4 links, if you want to look for it.

 

[norwegian]

Must be a coincidence he is Norwegian off course?

No, but it is not BECAUSE he is norwegian, either. As I said, he is the only one I would do it for, including norwegians.

 

[college]

The majority of the people posting here in the clinic like this small echo chamber. You get all riled up about the current leader of the Tour de France. Wiggo is the best cyclist out there and his current success is directly related to him dropping the weight.

 

[stazzy]

wait so whos being accused here?

are people saying EBH is doped?

ok sky hate is huge here

 

[Zam_Olyas]

wait so whos being accused here?

are people saying EBH is doped?

ok sky hate is huge here

Nope. Nobody is accusing eddy of anything. We are on about chopping a head off

 

[therhodeo]

I need to start keeping count of the number of apologist that registered in June or July of this year.

 

[norwegian]

wait so whos being accused here?

are people saying EBH is doped?

ok sky hate is huge here

It is about this "sky team-wide doping program"- accusations here.