Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[maxmartin]

Does anyone know why Wiggins quit track to ride on the road full-time?

according to him he achieved everything a track rider can achieve, and he wants to pursue the next big thing, and nothing is bigger than ToF

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Some of the folks here would have love wonderlance funny arguments

Credit goes to krabs303 for the wallpaper

 

[mastersracer]

And here is another thing that bothers me about Wiggos weight loss. AICAR was first discovered sometime in 2008, and he lost that weight conveniently for the 2009 season.

It did not happen for 2007 or 2008 season or for 2010, but right after that drug was discovered.

do some research: AICAR is over-hyped and likely has little doping potential. By the way, Wiggins power did decrease when he lost weight. He would not be able to match his pursuit times at his present weight.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

do some research: AICAR is over-hyped and likely has little doping potential. By the way, Wiggins power did decrease when he lost weight. He would not be able to match his pursuit times at his present weight.

Speaking of research, why don't you post the support for your claims?

 

[Caruut]

do some research: AICAR is over-hyped and likely has little doping potential. By the way, Wiggins power did decrease when he lost weight. He would not be able to match his pursuit times at his present weight.

He did, however, ride the best prologue of his career just over a week ago.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

do some research: AICAR is over-hyped and likely has little doping potential. By the way, Wiggins power did decrease when he lost weight. He would not be able to match his pursuit times at his present weight.

Read this: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11395/Doping-AICAR-Telmisartan-and-the-need-for-vigilance.aspx

 

[The Hitch]

according to him he achieved everything a track rider can achieve, and he wants to pursue the next big thing, and nothing is bigger than ToF

Only 16 months ago he said that track was everything, and road was just a distraction for him between olympics.

 

[The Hitch]

The issue with that is that he lost weight while IMPROVING his TTing. Not exactly what you'd expect, now is it?

And claiming, what was it 4, 5 days ago that he is no longer a tter but a climber who can tt a bit.

That just before putting in the tt of his life, and one of the most impressive Tour de France tt victories of the last 10 years.

 

[Fergoose]

Minor point, Rui rode the TDF in 2011 and indeed won on Stage 8 (Super-Besse)

I like a lot Rui as a rider, good work ethic and attacking mentality.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[maltiv]

I wonder maltiv, what's your opinion of Nordhaug? After Froome, I believe he might be the rider who has taken the biggest leap among sky riders.

I'm not 100% sure about him, but at least his progression is more plausible than most people think. He had some good results before this year as well, he was just incredibly inconsistent.

In 2010 he had a 6th place on a hilly stage in TdS, 8th on a MTF in TdP and an impressive 29th in F-W (after carrying bottles and being in a breakaway). This was obviously his first year as a pro so the results were quite good for a neo-pro. In 2011 he started of by being 7th on the MTF in Tour of Murcia after following an attack by Contador (consequently cracking a bit of course). Then afterwards he was 7th on the MTF in Criterium International, where he clearly was really strong and attacked a few times. Then he had a long period with sickness, but in the end of the year he was 6th in Coppa Sabatini.

In 2012 he started of by dropping everyone at Sky on their training camp, including Froome and Wiggins. This was after his first long period with no sickness, and also having changed his training program and diet after starting to work with Julich. Obviously the results then came quickly. But as I've tried to point out, he hasn't improved as much as some people seem to think.

 

[Bala Verde]

do some research: AICAR is over-hyped and likely has little doping potential. By the way, Wiggins power did decrease when he lost weight. He would not be able to match his pursuit times at his present weight.

Not criticizing you, but just to put some information out there:

According to this, recent (March 17, 2012) article, sources confirmed there is evidence of AICAR usage in the peloton

Nieuwe doping in peloton

De internationale wielerunie UCI heeft in samenwerking met het antidopingagentschap WADA de jacht geopend op het nieuwe wondermiddel Aicar. Dit spierversterkend en vetverbrandend middel is momenteel het meest renderende en ontraceerbare dopingmiddel in het peloton. De afgelopen maanden hebben diverse personen uit alle geledingen van de wielersport aan Telesport bevestigd dat zij op de hoogte zijn dat het middel Aicar in omloop is.

The UCI, in cooperation with WADA, has initiated efforts to crack down on the new 'wonderdrug' AICAR. This muscle strengthening and fat-burning drug is currently the most effective and least traceable PED in the peloton. In the last couple of months, several, anonymous, sources have confirmed that they are aware of the use of AICAR

The article also mentions what you just highlighted; questioning its usefulness:

This is also acknowledged by Herman Ram of the Dutch Anti-Doping Authority. “People have been talking about AICAR for 15 years but effects have only been measured in animal studies,” he told this writer. “That means that there are unknown side effects possible when used in healthy human subjects.”

However, usefulness here seems to be defined not necessarily as "ineffective", but, for the moment, that too little testing has been done to make it safe for human consumption/use.

The drug's inventor/discoverer saw its usefulness for endurance sports:

Professor Evans realized too that this could be an ideal drug for endurance sports, like cycling, also because it burns fat, and informed WADA about it. The World Doping Authorization included it into their Prohibited List.

The Velonation website picked up on the article

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11395/Doping-AICAR-Telmisartan-and-the-need-for-vigilance.aspx

UCI President Pat McQuaid has acknowledged to the newspaper that AICAR use is currently difficult to prove, but that WADA is aware of it and efforts are being made to perfect a test.

“These are products that shouldn’t be found around people who are supposed to be in good health,” AFLD scientific adviser Michel Rieu said then. The AFLD wanted to run more tests on the 2009 urine samples from the Tour but UCI held these samples and, according to Le Monde on July 28th, didn’t grant permission for re-analysis.

Unfortunately for WADA, there are problems. Testing for AICAR is very tricky. It requires equipment that only advanced research labs have. Moreover, AICAR is a substance which closely resembles a protein that is naturally present in the body, as is the case for example for testosterone or EPO. Every substance entering a human body passes through the liver, resulting in so-called metabolites and these can be found in urine.

The substance first made the news in 2009 when the-then AFLD director Pierre Bordry said that he believed it was in use and that some riders were looking unnaturally thin to him

And further, there is talk about:

Telmisartan:

Telmisartan is neither and, according to recent research by Fabian Sanchis Gomar of the University of Valencia, Spain, it has virtually the same specifics as AICAR and GW1516. It also enhances running ability in mice if they are completely untrained. With training, endurance increases, fat is burnt and recovery is faster as there is less lactic acid formation.

Meanwhile, the substance has been found near cycling. During the same Tour de France raid in 2009 the AFLD-researchers found packages of Telmisartan. This was before research claimed similar characteristics as AICAR, and AFLD therefore couldn’t really explain its presence in a cycling-related environment.

Every chemist has access to Telmisartan and because it’s not experimental anymore, it is therefore widely available. If AICAR is on WADA’s forbidden list and Telmisartan - which might have the same effects - isn’t, the latter might be a way to escape detection.

 

[djerkson]

So if it's not Aicar, TB-500, improved training methods or the Osymetric-thingie, then what remains? Genetic manipulation? Impossible to prove by current standards (and perhaps a little too sci-fi to be true).

 

[ultimobici]

And claiming, what was it 4, 5 days ago that he is no longer a tter but a climber who can tt a bit.

That just before putting in the tt of his life, and one of the most impressive Tour de France tt victories of the last 10 years.

Have you actually checked the average speed of this TT?

48.3kmh is not the TT of a lifetime, not even close. More likely is that Cancellara had an off day, as did Tony Martin.

 

[thehog]

"I've worked on the areas where perhaps I was a bit weak in the past. As I said yesterday, I'm only human, who knows what lies in store the next few weeks? But up to now, it's been the dream scenario and we'll take it day by day."

However, any questions about the arrest of French rider Remy di Gregorio were off limits.

Speaking to the 50-odd press pack just before the start of the conference, Sky head of business operations Fran Millar said "We're not going to answer questions about Cofidis. We're here to talk about our own race... If someone does [ask one], I'm going to interrupt and ask somebody else."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...thing-for-granted-despite-dream-scenario.html

 

[Aguirre]

I dont know if anyone posted this before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzHmhgjL2pc&feature=player_embedded

he loses his nerves quite easily as kelly says

 

[Catwhoorg]

To be fair Hog, the whole Cofidis/Remy thing is technically sub judice (or whatever the French equivalent is) so no comment really should be made.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Wiggins puts trust in Australian coach

Tue, Jul 10 13:43 PM EDT


http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE86912520120710?irpc=932
By Julien Pretot

QUINCIE EN BEAUJOLAIS, France (Reuters) - Locked in a duel with Cadel Evans at the Tour de France, Bradley Wiggins is putting his trust in one of the defending champion's compatriots, Australian coach Tim Kerrison.

Yellow jersey holder Wiggins, seeking to become the first Briton to win the Tour, leads Evans by one minute 53 seconds midway through the three-week race, partly thanks to sports scientist Kerrison who had a swimming and rowing background.

When Wiggins was looking to bounce back from his 2010 Tour disappointment a year after finishing fourth overall, he turned to Australian Shane Sutton who brought in Kerrison, the man behind Australia's endurance swimming revolution who knew almost nothing about cycling.

"He made a massive difference," Wiggins, who leads Australian Evans after nine stages, told a news conference on Tuesday as the peloton enjoyed a rest day in the Beaujolais region.

"He changed my career. Since that 2010 disappointment, from that moment on we started working together with Shane.

"When I asked Shane to coach me, he was not comfortable he could do it all himself and he brought Tim in."

It was a bold move by Wiggins, who needed a bit of time to put his trust in a newcomer.

"It took a lot for me to trust him at the start because he had never worked in cycling, but he learned quickly," Wiggins said.

"He spent almost two years on the road in a camping car (following races)."

Kerrison made Wiggins race less but with the idea of winning every event he entered and his program also includes training sessions at altitude in Tenerife, Spain, to help him cope with the Tour's toughest climbs.

The gamble has been paying off as Wiggins finished third overall in the Vuelta last year and won the Paris-Nice and Criterium du Dauphine stage races in the lead-up to this year's Tour.

"I would go as far as saying he revolutionized training in cycling within this team," said Wiggins, who sees Kerrison as the "brains" behind his improvement on the road.

There are, however, almost two weeks left on the Tour and Wiggins has too much "respect" for Evans to take anything for granted.

"We're expecting this to be a dogfight for the next two weeks, it's what cycling is about," Wiggins said.

(Editing by Ed Osmond)

 

[roundabout]

Have you actually checked the average speed of this TT?

48.3kmh is not the TT of a lifetime, not even close. More likely is that Cancellara had an off day, as did Tony Martin.

It's not a flat TT so no point in using average speed.

And even if Cancellara had beaten non-Sky riders by a minute, he still would not have won.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Have you actually checked the average speed of this TT?

48.3kmh is not the TT of a lifetime, not even close. More likely is that Cancellara had an off day, as did Tony Martin.

Average speed is meaningless unless you account for profile differences, as well as temperature, etc.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Shane Sutton: Brad Wiggins :: Chris Carmichael : Lance Armstrong

 

[mb2612]

I don't understand why people think the Colombians haven't improved at Sky, Uran managed a 7th in a GT, having previously never been in the top twenty, while Henao was the first rider to top ten in his debut GT since the notoriously clean Andy Schleck. It's not as dramatic as the Wiggins and Froome, but both have them are having their best ever season.

 

[Fergoose]

And here is another thing that bothers me about Wiggos weight loss. AICAR was first discovered sometime in 2008, and he lost that weight conveniently for the 2009 season.

It did not happen for 2007 or 2008 season or for 2010, but right after that drug was discovered.

He won Olympic gold in 2008. Experimenting with weightloss in 2008 would have jeopardised his Olympic preparation. I would assume 2009 was the first year in his career when he could have even entertained a significant change in weight as he had finally committed to turning his back on the track.

The issue with that is that he lost weight while IMPROVING his TTing. Not exactly what you'd expect, now is it?

Tony Martin intentionally lost weight going into the 2010 tour and road an accomplished ITT, finishing 17 seconds behind a Fabian Cancellara who was pretty much peerless that year also winning the World ITT championship. Martin also came second in the prologue in that years TdF. Both were his best results. In 2009 TdF, the bulkier Martin could only manage 11th in the ITT.

So to those saying it is fishy that Bradley Wiggins rode better time trials with less weight, well Tony Martin also did “the impossible”. I await the belated Clinic thread on Martin with bated breath.

Also Bradley’s 2009 ITT wasn’t too shabby, 40 seconds behind Cancellara at his peak (he won the Worlds and Vuelta ITT that year) and ahead of Evans and Tony Martin, so it is debatable if this years ITT is really a massive step forward for Wiggins from his Garmin days. I’ll concede it is a modest improvement though but lots of factors could account for that.

Average speed is meaningless unless you account for profile differences, as well as temperature, etc.

I wouldn’t say they are meaningless, if he’d done 50.3km/h on the course you’d all be jumping up and down, but I get the point. Time gaps are better; here are some for your delectation.

VAN GARDEREN Tejay + 01' 06''
CHAVANEL Sylvain + 01' 24''
VELITS Peter + 01' 59''
NIBALI Vincenzo + 02' 07''
KLÖDEN Andréas + 02' 09''
MONFORT Maxime + 02' 15''
ZUBELDIA Haimar + 02' 20''
COSTA Rui Alberto + 02' 22'
VOIGT Jens + 02' 44''
ROCHE Nicolas + 03' 08''
SCHLECK Frank + 04' 32''

I had to stifle a yawn compiling that list. A great effort by Wiggins no doubt, but setting off alarms?

 

[will10]

I dont know if anyone posted this before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzHmhgjL2pc&feature=player_embedded

he loses his nerves quite easily as kelly says

You're right, obviously being a rider on the Tour de France, he has no place at the end of a stage.

 

[roundabout]

Even without the optimal preparation you would expect better results from a rider who finished top 10 in the Tour de Suisse aged 20. A Tour de Suisse with 3 MTFs (one of them tougher than Alpe d'Huez and another after 2 other big climbs) and 30+km TT.

Talent wise Uran >>> Froome. Yet one finishes 7th in a Giro while the only reason the other would miss a podium in the Tour would be having to work for Wiggins.

 

[mb2612]

He won Olympic gold in 2008. Experimenting with weightloss in 2008 would have jeopardised his Olympic preparation. I would assume 2009 was the first year in his career when he could have even entertained a significant change in weight as he had finally committed to turning his back on the track.



Tony Martin intentionally lost weight going into the 2010 tour and road an accomplished ITT, finishing 17 seconds behind a Fabian Cancellara who was pretty much peerless that year also winning the World ITT championship. Martin also came second in the prologue in that years TdF. Both were his best results. In 2009 TdF, the bulkier Martin could only manage 11th in the ITT.

So to those saying it is fishy that Bradley Wiggins rode better time trials with less weight, well Tony Martin also did “the impossible”. I await the belated Clinic thread on Martin with bated breath.

Also Bradley’s 2009 ITT wasn’t too shabby, 40 seconds behind Cancellara at his peak (he won the Worlds and Vuelta ITT that year) and ahead of Evans and Tony Martin, so it is debatable if this years ITT is really a massive step forward for Wiggins from his Garmin days. I’ll concede it is a modest improvement though but lots of factors could account for that.



I wouldn’t say they are meaningless, if he’d done 50.3km/h on the course you’d all be jumping up and down, but I get the point. Time gaps are better; here are some for your delectation.

VAN GARDEREN Tejay + 01' 06''
CHAVANEL Sylvain + 01' 24''
VELITS Peter + 01' 59''
NIBALI Vincenzo + 02' 07''
KLÖDEN Andréas + 02' 09''
MONFORT Maxime + 02' 15''
ZUBELDIA Haimar + 02' 20''
COSTA Rui Alberto + 02' 22'
VOIGT Jens + 02' 44''
ROCHE Nicolas + 03' 08''
SCHLECK Frank + 04' 32''

I had to stifle a yawn compiling that list. A great effort by Wiggins no doubt, but setting off alarms?

What are you talking about, Wiggins had never put 2 minutes into Nibali before this year, now he's done it twice.

Wiggins has never won a long TT, now he wins the for fun. Are you saying that he was overweight when he was the world best pursuit rider?

Martin was 24 , it's natural that he improves, Wiggins is 32 and was a time trial world champ (indoors) ten years ago. IT is entirely unexpected that he goes from good to world beating over one winter.