Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Bexon30]

Surely it depends on Rogers? With all the sports scientists in place presumably they are analyzing performance and tailoring training based on those numbers.

Rogers could be an incredible numbers geek who is totally into it and understands the analysis and could predict where the Sky team were likely to take his training, or

He could be hopeless with numbers and scientific data and just trains to what Sky told him to do.

If he is in the former camp then he could be incredibly useful to Saxo, if he is in the latter camp he would be next to useless.

Same goes for any interest he shows in what they may or may not shove in to his body. "Whats this? How does it work?" compared to "Just give me the good stuff and watch me go".

He'll be somewhere between the two extremes I've highlighted but he will tend to one end of the spectrum or the other.

But just training what Sky tell him to do would be not hard to remember though? Surely? Then the info would be used to help another team. I'm open minded to new training techniques but baffled as how a rider could forget! A goldfish yes... But a professional athlete who cuts his cloth at performing forgets or cant replicate a method or technique??

Edit: And then double that with another rider then treble etc. doesn't follow reason. If their knowledge retention is so poor I would off load them pronto. What do you mean you forgot what we showed you last week....

 

[thehog]

But just training what Sky tell him to do would be not hard to remember though? Surely? Then the info would be used to help another team. I'm open minded to new training techniques but baffled as how a rider could forget! A goldfish yes... But a professional athlete who cuts his cloth at performing forgets or cant replicate a method or technique??

Edit: And then double that with another rider then treble etc. doesn't follow reason. If their knowledge retention is so poor I would off load them pronto. What do you mean you forgot what we showed you last week....

Yes. 3 times world champion and Ferrari client just does what his told.

Kerrison said ride up this mountain. Leave the rest to me.

Sounds plausible!

Most cyclists don't know their own bodies. They just do as they're told.

Especially Mick Rogers who was quoting off numbers to jornos at the Tour. But he knew nothing.

Lol!

 

[mattghg]

I agree with Jimmy on this.

Whilst Sky are coming up with mind boggling unbelievable performances, if there was to be something like Asheden coming in and evaluating blood counts etc, it has to be across the board and no team singled out, it has to be fair.

Unlike Walsh though who is on Murdoch's pay roll, I don't think people would be saying "he's been bought"

The fact that people say that Walsh has been bought says more about them than it does about Walsh.

 

[Kretch]

Rogers could be an incredible numbers geek who is totally into it and understands the analysis and could predict where the Sky team were likely to take his training.

Dodge is as thick as 2 short planks.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Cannondale use the same pillows. Sagan is going well.

Could be something in it.

Wouldn't surprise me. A good nights sleep is paramount. Especially when on the Tour where hotel beds can be terrible.

How do you know the same pillows? It wouldn't surprise me if Sky have their own pillow makers, I seriously doubt that they are using pillows which are commercially available. The staggering thing is that with so much attention to detail they don't take their own mattresses as well.

 

[thehog]

How do you know the same pillows? It wouldn't surprise me if Sky have their own pillow makers, I seriously doubt that they are using pillows which are commercially available. The staggering thing is that with so much attention to detail they don't take their own mattresses as well.

Team Sky tells us about the importance of the sleeping and the strengths recovery in the training process of a professional sportsman and how Technogel Sleeping products help him to train during the night. Team Sky got the first and second place at Tour de France 2012. Technogel Sleeping is official supplier of Team Sky, Team Liquigas-Cannondale, Team Cofidis, Team La Pomme Marseille, Team Nippo; of the triathletes Jonathan Brownlee, Alistair Brownlee, Alessandro Fabian and Alexandra Louison; of the RCT Rugby Club Toulon and of the rugby players Marco Bortolami and Leonardo Ghiraldini.

http://www.proteamcyclingjersey.com/team-sky-training-with-technogel-sleeping/

http://www.technogelworld.com/t-sleeping

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

But just training what Sky tell him to do would be not hard to remember though? Surely?

It depends. If the Sky guys train to a rigid schedule then it would not hard to remember. However, if training is modified according the result of number crunching based on recent sessions (e.g. recovery times, spread between fastest and slowest piece in an interval session etc.), resting heart rate etc. then unless the rider knows how the number crunching works, they wouldn't be able to replicate the training regime elsewhere.

 

[JimmyFingers]

But just training what Sky tell him to do would be not hard to remember though? Surely? Then the info would be used to help another team. I'm open minded to new training techniques but baffled as how a rider could forget! A goldfish yes... But a professional athlete who cuts his cloth at performing forgets or cant replicate a method or technique??

Edit: And then double that with another rider then treble etc. doesn't follow reason. If their knowledge retention is so poor I would off load them pronto. What do you mean you forgot what we showed you last week....

Buy this only provides a snapshot at best of Sky's training and approach. Sure teams can learn from it and I doubt riders forget it, but it wouldn't be comprehensive enough for another team, without a lot of data.

The stealing of which is illegalof course. Riders can inform by word of mouth but that would be about it.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

http://www.proteamcyclingjersey.com/team-sky-training-with-technogel-sleeping/

http://www.technogelworld.com/t-sleeping

Thanks for that thehog. Presumably Cofidis riders don't wash their hands properly.

 

[Bexon30]

It depends. If the Sky guys train to a rigid schedule then it would not hard to remember. However, if training is modified according the result of number crunching based on recent sessions (e.g. recovery times, spread between fastest and slowest piece in an interval session etc.), resting heart rate etc. then unless the rider knows how the number crunching works, they wouldn't be able to replicate the training regime elsewhere.

Ok that's interesting but they would still know what training they were doing day to day like interval training and alike (not forgetting the warm down lol). So as for the not knowing how the number crunching works,? I'm not so sure because surely as a person dependent on new contracts you'd want to maximise your own physical and earning potential. And didn't I see a Kerrison interview where he talks along the lines of telling the riders how the numbers work in a format they get. Even for a plank like Dodger?

 

[Bexon30]

Buy this only provides a snapshot at best of Sky's training and approach. Sure teams can learn from it and I doubt riders forget it, but it wouldn't be comprehensive enough for another team, without a lot of data.

The stealing of which is illegalof course. Riders can inform by word of mouth but that would be about it.

Didn't Kerrison say he explained all the detail to the riders? My bad if not I'm sure someone can link the VT I'm a bit of a Luddite

 

[thehog]

Thanks for that thehog. Presumably Cofidis riders don't wash their hands properly.

Yes I think that’s the difference.

Most people haven’t learnt to wash their hands the right way. The Sky way. That accounts for about 20w of power.

So Sky are they only team that does motor pacing. Its not been done before. Certainly not on the track.

They’re the only ones to use Technogel pillows apart from 5 other teams.

No one goes to Tenerife. Apart from the other 5 teams who were staying there.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Didn't Kerrison say he explained all the detail to the riders? My bad if not I'm sure someone can link the VT I'm a bit of a Luddite

I'm sure the riders where given a lot of explanation and instruction, but that still lacks the raw, quantifiable data that would give another team an overview of Sky's entire strategy and approach. My footsoldier analogy stands, although if you like we'll promote Rogers to Captain or even Major. Capture him and you may learn a decent fraction of the invasion plan but you're still not going to know everything that's going on.

 

[red_flanders]

Can someone please list out what marginal gains are and how they change performance to the degree we've seen?

Give me a list. Even a partial list. Let me know why you believe this could account for Sky's performances. I want to know why people believe this.

 

[Bexon30]

Can someone please list out what marginal gains are and how they change performance to the degree we've seen?

Give me a list. Even a partial list. Let me know why you believe this could account for Sky's performances. I want to know why people believe this.

This.

And Jimmy there's so many things wrong with your analogy like he was still aware of what he was doing. What he ate. How he slept. Where he trained. How long for and why. Tempo he pushed numbers he could push. What he drank. Where and when he was aloud to laugh etc.
But more than anything he chose to go to Saxo he wasn't a major or private or anything like that. I mean "who knows how your mind works Jimmy."

 

[ebandit]

marginal

Can someone please list out what marginal gains are and how they change performance to the degree we've seen?

it's fun to poke fun at those marginal gains such as washing hands / having M n M's in team sky colours at team presentations / riders own mattresses at races etc

but DB states aim is to do everything as best as possible + to avoid following
traditional ideas just because that's the way it's always been done

+ signing those riders whom are most likely to improve within the team sky set up

so marginal gains are just that............marginal...everything is important

Mark L

 

[the sceptic]

Can someone please list out what marginal gains are and how they change performance to the degree we've seen?

Give me a list. Even a partial list. Let me know why you believe this could account for Sky's performances. I want to know why people believe this.

Sleep in the correct position, bring the same pillow when you go to different places.

Learn how to clean your hands, very important to not leave little bits between your fingers.

Warm up/down

Hire a swimming coach

Train harder and smarter than everyone else

Have a mechanic that knows how to stick at tyre on, this could gain you as much as 1%

Have more money than other teams (very important, just ask JV)

All these small gains add up to very big gains when you combine them. And thats why marginal gains is better than doping.

 

[BroDeal]

Can someone please list out what marginal gains are and how they change performance to the degree we've seen?

Give me a list. Even a partial list. Let me know why you believe this could account for Sky's performances. I want to know why people believe this.

Pillows: +1%
Mood lights: +1%
Hand washing: +1%
Team psychologist: +1%
Slower cadence (for Wiggins): +1%
Pep talks by Brailsfraud: +1%
Warming down: +1%
Warming up: +1%
Gluten free diet: +1%
Reverse periodization: +1%
AICAR: +3%
GW-501516: +3%

TOTAL: +16%

 

[blackcat]

+ soigneurs providing hand relief to decrease stress = MASTERCARD

 

[thehog]

Pillows: +1%
Mood lights: +1%
Hand washing: +1%
Team psychologist: +1%
Slower cadence (for Wiggins): +1%
Pep talks by Brailsfraud: +1%
Warming down: +1%
Warming up: +1%
Gluten free diet: +1%
Reverse periodization: +1%
AICAR: +3%
GW-501516: +3%

TOTAL: +16%

Brilliant!

and

Brailsfraud! LOL!

 

[peloton]

Pillows: +1%
Mood lights: +1%
Hand washing: +1%
Team psychologist: +1%
Slower cadence (for Wiggins): +1%
Pep talks by Brailsfraud: +1%
Warming down: +1%
Warming up: +1%
Gluten free diet: +1%
Reverse periodization: +1%
AICAR: +3%
GW-501516: +3%

TOTAL: +16%

Well played

 

[blackcat]

+ condom bike helmets coefficient drag

 

[Bexon30]

Pillows: +1%
Mood lights: +1%
Hand washing: +1%
Team psychologist: +1%
Slower cadence (for Wiggins): +1%
Pep talks by Brailsfraud: +1%
Warming down: +1%
Warming up: +1%
Gluten free diet: +1%
Reverse periodization: +1%
AICAR: +3%
GW-501516: +3%

TOTAL: +16%

Pep talks got me I can see it now.

 

[armchairclimber]

Pillows: +1%
Mood lights: +1%
Hand washing: +1%
Team psychologist: +1%
Slower cadence (for Wiggins): +1%
Pep talks by Brailsfraud: +1%
Warming down: +1%
Warming up: +1%
Gluten free diet: +1%
Reverse periodization: +1%
AICAR: +3%
GW-501516: +3%

TOTAL: +16%

Funny indeed, but it says more about you than it does about SKY....unfortunately.

 

[BroDeal]

Funny indeed, but it says more about you than it does about SKY....unfortunately.

What does it say? That I forget the specially commishioned audio with a continuous loop of Manolo Saiz yelling, "Venge! Venge! Venge!"? That is worth an additional 1%. Or is it the Brits cannot accept what is obvious to everyone else so they take offense at everyone who questions the myth?