Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Catwhoorg]

So you're saying your own profession is full of ****?
Brilliant. Excellent employee; would hire again.

Science (especially biological science) is simply not cut and dried. there can be reasonable guys making opposite conclusions based on the same data, with no-one really raising an eyebrow. That why we have peer review and look to build consensus.

But when it gets to courts, politics and journalists, there are enough scientists who will sell out to make a fast buck.

 

[roundabout]

Ok so porte gets better in climbs but worse in TTs, erm isnt that what is suppossed to happen if his progression is natural? Honestly the madness that sky have somehow generated is way out of proportion to what the numbers the times actually are.That and the constant TDF thread trolling by posters from the clinic have turned my allegiance and now I want sky to win.(and i <insert wigginism here> wiggins) that and the hypocrasy.

He shouldn't get worse in TTs. Extra weight has no effect on TT ability. Just ask Wiggins.

 

[maxmartin]

Richie Porte was invisible at Saxo, with the exception of some nice TTs, but now he's crushing the entire field and reeling in GT champions single-handedly.

Yeah.

it turns out from invisible to invincible, all you need is a good doc and a swimming coach.

 

[Montanus]

Richie Porte was invisible at Saxo, with the exception of some nice TTs, but now he's crushing the entire field and reeling in GT champions single-handedly.

Yeah.

Amnesia? Porte's result 2010:

1st Stage 3 ITT Tour de Romandie
4th Overall Tour of Britain
4th Overall Eneco Tour
4th UCI Road World Championships Time Trial
7th Overall Giro d'Italia
1st Young Rider Jersey
Held Jersey held from Stage 11–13
10th Clásica de San Sebastián

7th in Giro is at least as impressive than anything he has done at Sky so far.

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

Sky = Suspended Disbelief

Nibali needs to watch the scene in "Breaking Away" when the Italian rider jams his pump into Dave Stollers wheel sending him careening into the ditch.

That would be fun to watch, not sporting, but fun!

 

[maxmartin]

Science (especially biological science) is simply not cut and dried. there can be reasonable guys making opposite conclusions based on the same data, with no-one really raising an eyebrow. That why we have peer review and look to build consensus.

But when it gets to courts, politics and journalists, there are enough scientists who will sell out to make a fast buck.

peer review is based on semi-transparency, you can ask the author to provide more data figure to support his conclusion in the paper. Can SKY provide his superhuman real blood data to the panel of experts?

 

[roundabout]

it turns out from invisible to invincible, all you need is a good doc and a swimming coach.

While Porte is outperforming expectations, I suggest 2010 is a better basis for judging the level of improvement.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Amnesia? Porte's result 2010:

7th in Giro is at least as impressive than anything he has done at Sky so far.

Amnesia? Richie Porte finished TWO HOURS down on GC last year at the Tour. Lost 24 minutes on PdB stage alone finishing behind even Cancellara.

 

[thehog]

Yeah, I only watch the Tour for the scenery, these days. Sometimes the racing can be good, but nothing compares to a sublime gorge or mountain!

I've come to realise I don't really mind doping per se, but arrogant lying hypocrites who abuse people to hide their own deviousness. Voeckler probably won today because he got a cortisone shot for his knee - there's some talk about this around Europcar vis Charteau and last year's investigation. But, big deal: they seem congenial enough. Same for Contador and Frandy. Cadel can be a charger for all I care.

The likes of Judge Muttonchops and LA are simply antipatico.

Team Sky's holier than thou and abusive 'work-rate and professionalism' rhetoric is also galling for any reasonably intelligent person, and we've heard it all before. Its last espouser is finally recieving a belated comeuppance - we don't need version 2.0 so soon. A pair of old dudes start climbing and TTing better than everyone one else in the world because their mechanics stay up late. Yep, I'm sure. Maybe they're up late because they're inefficient?

What gets me is yes they will win and crush this Tour. But at least in the Postal days Armstrong would pretend the other riders were a threat. He’d talk up Ullrich and Basso and then smash them but was trying to pretend there was a chance of losing it all. This I don’t understand. When Wiggins finally wins this Tour no one has worn the yellow jersey this far out, held it and won the Tour since 81. Something is not right. I can feel it. Seeing Porte today was insane. I actually know of him reasonably well. I’ve followed him for a while when he was first living in Italy. He’s a good rider but what he did today defies logic. Why would anyone or any team want to win like this? The fact the Sky or the UCI can’t tell that the audience knows what’s up is stupid. I only post here but I had a look around various forums last night and all are saying the same type of things. Of course there are those saying “without a positive you can’t prove anything” but most if not all are saying its strange especially in relation to Froome. Now Porte tempo on the front all day then puts a minute into Nibali! Not possible. Sorry.

I still maintain something is going to go bust before the Tour. Even if it doesn’t post Tour a lot of question will start getting asked. Look at Nibali today. He just realized at the time Porte catches him that he has absolutely zero chance of winning. 3rd is the best he can do.

 

[User Guide]

He shouldn't get worse in TTs. Extra weight has no effect on TT ability. Just ask Wiggins.

Ah yes but Porte lost his weight in the all new "new era" of cycling; Wiggans lost his in the old "new era" which was only whiter than white clean,now its the bluey white clean

 

[issoisso]

Amnesia? Porte's result 2010:



7th in Giro is at least as impressive than anything he has done at Sky so far.

Is this the Giro where he was losing 4-6 minutes in every major mountain stage to Nibali and Basso?

 

[goggalor]

Kimmage disappointed in Wiggins and Team Sky over transparency

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx#ixzz20JNwYMJS

"The greatest indictment of our profession at the moment is the fact that although Wiggins had this rant about Twitter, that is where the pertinent questions are being asked now: on Twitter."

Well said. Also, Porte was hilarious today. Like an Aussie Duracell bunny. Didn't even need Rogers!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Is this the Giro where he was losing 4-6 minutes in every major mountain stage to Nibali and Basso?

Yep.

Apparently User Guide doesn't want us to remember that the main reason Porte was up there is because he was allowed to be in that huge breakaway on Stage 11.

 

[Montanus]

Amnesia? Richie Porte finished TWO HOURS down on GC last year at the Tour. Lost 24 minutes on PdB stage alone finishing behind even Cancellara.

And he was still 7th in the Giro 2010... You just ignore that because it talks against that he has taken a giant leap with Sky. Impressive.

And btw, he was domestique to Contador both in the giro and tdf 2011. He did some fairly good work in the Giro, less good in tdf. Doing a double as domestique can be tough.

 

[wattage]

Those will make some nice mugshots

 

[Zam_Olyas]

And he was still 7th in the Giro 2010... You just ignore that because it talks against that he has taken a giant leap with Sky. Impressive.

And btw, he was domestique to Contador both in the giro and tdf 2011. He did some fairly good work in the Giro, less good in tdf. Doing a double as domestique can be tough.

I maybe wrong but that Giro he gained time on a break.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

And he was still 7th in the Giro 2010... You just ignore that because it talks against that he has taken a giant leap with Sky. Impressive.

And btw, he was domestique to Contador both in the giro and tdf 2011. He did some fairly good work in the Giro, less good in tdf. Doing a double as domestique can be tough.

Is this the best you got? think about what you are saying, or atleast look at the giro 10 once more then come back here and tell me that he got that 7th place because of beeing amongst the 15 best climbers...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

And he was still 7th in the Giro 2010... You just ignore that because it talks against that he has taken a giant leap with Sky. Impressive.

And btw, he was domestique to Contador both in the giro and tdf 2011. He did some fairly good work in the Giro, less good in tdf. Doing a double as domestique can be tough.

Pay attention, skippy. Go look at the Stage 11 results that year. Porte was there because he was in a breakway that took 12 minutes.

 

[issoisso]

Yep.

Apparently User Guide doesn't want us to remember that the main reason Porte was up there is because he was allowed to be in that huge breakaway on Stage 11.

Take out the gains in the Team Time Trial and he doesn't even make the top ten

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I maybe wrong but that Giro he gained time on a break.

Yep, he gained it on Stage 11 that year. I mentioned it to these guys but the Sky crowd has no knowledge of these things. They just go to the Wikipedia page and post whatever they see.

 

[thehog]

I maybe wrong but that Giro he gained time on a break.

2010 Giro was an anomaly year due to the break that no one chased in the appalling weather – it got 18 minutes! I mean David Arroyo almost won the whole race due to that break!

To use that to Porte’s advantage of his talent is a joke. If so Arroyo should be outclimbing Nibs!

 

[Montanus]

Is this the Giro where he was losing 4-6 minutes in every major mountain stage to Nibali and Basso?

If was his first GT, he was +7.22 back on GC, 4 minutes behind Evans, 16 seconds behind Vino, and ahead of riders like Sastre, Kiserlovski, Pinotti, Cungeo, Mollema, Gadret. Sure he gained time in a break, but still. It does show that he is a rider with some great potential. You guys just can't take in the he had a really good result before he came to Sky.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I deleted my comments because moose and others have already posted that point. oh well! . It is not to say he was not talented.

 

[User Guide]

Is this the Giro where he was losing 4-6 minutes in every major mountain stage to Nibali and Basso?

The same year where he was 4th in the worlds ITT? he wouldnt come top 20 now.
Dont get me wrong sky are probably as dirty as the next team, but the reality is the challenge from other teams/contenders has been **** poor this year.

 

[maxmartin]

Is this guy for real?

He is trying to tell us now that he did'nt do enough research when recruiting Leinders when there was posters even on this forum who were on about this guy. Does he think we were born yesterday and all he is trying to do is pull the wool over our eyes with this nonsense. He knew all about his background, no doubts and he is only respnding to all this now because he is backed into a corner and he is forced to do so. It's classic spin doctoring.

one lie after another lie, typical doper behavior