Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Netserk]

EBH has almost not improved while with Sky. Apparently marginal gains only work on donkeys

 

[del1962]

Reading the Sky fans reaction here and on twitter, I think it most certainly was taken as an accusation/slur/defamatory/tactless/baseless/hideous/hurtful/gutless etc thing to say.

Lets hope the Sky team can react better to an attack from Contador.

I think baseless i the only one that fits, but if course Kimmage is the only one asking the tough questions like why EBH is not the next Mercxx

 

[the sceptic]

speaking with the norwegian press

Hva mener dere? For meg var han den neste Merckx. Han var det største talentet, et naturtalent. Han var det største talent jeg hadde sett siden Jan Ullrich og jeg forventet at han skulle bli den neste store mesteren.

- Hva er han her nede? Han er en hjelperytter. Brailsford prater om å ta inn unge ryttere og utvikle talentet deres, men hva har skjedd med Edvalds talent?

- Da Edvald ankom laget hadde ingen hørt om Chris Froome. Han ble nummer 83 i Tour de France året i forveien. Brailfords veier er uransakelige. Jeg sier ikke det for å antyde noe som helst, men jeg synes det er merkelig. «Små forbedringer» er et mantra for Team Sky, men jeg synes ikke det kjennetegner utviklingen til Chris Froome på dette laget, påpeker Kimmage.

google translate

What do you think? To me he was the next Merckx. He was the greatest talent, a natural talent. He was the greatest talent I have seen since Jan Ullrich and I expected him to be the next great champion.

- What's he doing down here? He is a domestique. Brailsford talks about taking the young riders and develop their talent, but what happened with Edvald talent?

- When Edvald arrived the team had no heard of Chris Froom. He was number 83 in the Tour de France the year before. Brailfords ways are inscrutable. I'm not saying that to imply anything, but I think it's weird. "Small improvements" is a mantra for Team Sky, but I do not think it characterizes the development of Chris Froom on the team, says Kimmage.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I think baseless i the only one that fits, but if course Kimmage is the only one asking the tough questions like why EBH is not the next Mercxx

Yeah basically what kimmage is asking is why isn't EBH winning all three jerseys in the tour, because that would be more believable. Or that would mean he was on the same drugs as everyone else is at Sky.

At least I think that is what he is saying. Or something like that.

 

[Netserk]

Yeah basically what kimmage is asking is why isn't EBH winning all three jerseys in the tour, because that would be more believable. Or that would mean he was on the same drugs as everyone else is at Sky.

At least I think that is what he is saying. Or something like that.

More like 'Why do marginal gains only work on donkeys like Froome, and not obvious talents like EBH?'

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think baseless i the only one that fits, but if course Kimmage is the only one asking the tough questions like why EBH is not the next Mercxx

I saw EBH race in (IIRC) 2007 - pretty clear that he was a natural talent, a guy who was going to do well in the Classics. That it hasn't happened in itself is not a surprise - but if he was benefitting the same way Wiggo & Froome have then he would be winning everything.

 

[BroDeal]

These are the uncomfortable questions the munchkins don't want asked because they have no answers that do not involve pretzel logic.

UK Postal looks more and more like US Postal. A select clique of team riders get the white lunch bags.

 

[The Hitch]

Stop toking on one of Wiggins' joints. EBH was one of the most sought after talents in the sport. Every team wanted to sign him. He has accomplished almost nothing.

Sky has turned super talented riders like EBH into second rate domestiques while nobodies who could barely get a pro contract and ex-clients of Dr. Ferrari are riding like Pantani reborn.

Wouldn't it be easier to confront them there rather than give their views airtime by advertising it here?

 

[kingjr]

These are the uncomfortable questions the munchkins don't want asked because they have no answers that do not involve pretzel logic.

UK Postal looks more and more like US Postal. A select clique of team riders get the white lunch bags.

I'm just wondering, why wouldn't EBH get one?

 

[andy1234]

Kimmage opens his mouth and the Sky haters squeal like 12 year old girls at a One Direction concert.

 

[JimmyFingers]

More like 'Why do marginal gains only work on donkeys like Froome, and not obvious talents like EBH?'

So any deviation from a Lemond or in this case Merckx progression through youth into pro cycling, either positive or negative is suspicious? I would say comparing a young EBH to Merckx is pure hyperbole. To follow that logic EBH should be dominating practically every race he enters.

Has every promising youth turned into dominating pro? How many riders have been christened the new Merckx? It is a sensationalist comparison IMO.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Kimmage opens his mouth and the Sky haters squeal like 12 year old girls at a One Direction concert.

Who are the Sky haters??

And I first noticed a lot of anguish from Sky fans on twitter because of Keannaughs tweet - even though at the time no-one knew what Kimmage had said or done.
Rapha should design a kelvar gillet for the Sky fans.

 

[The Hitch]

Kimmage opens his mouth and the Sky haters squeal like 12 year old girls at a One Direction concert.

Good to see that even the die hard Armstrong groupies recognize Sky as the successor. It seems only the ultra loyal wiggins fanboys don't see the continuation.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So any deviation from a Lemond or in this case Merckx progression through youth into pro cycling, either positive or negative is suspicious? I would say comparing a young EBH to Merckx is pure hyperbole. To follow that logic EBH should be dominating practically every race he enters.

The logic of Kimmages question did not escape you.

Has every promising youth turned into dominating pro? How many riders have been christened the new Merckx? It is a sensationalist comparison IMO.

The answer is no - and not being able to reach one's potential talent in itself is not suspicious, but there should be a logical and clear explanation.
However Sir Marginal Gains appeared to not know.

 

[Catwhoorg]

2009 was a leap ahead, and 2010 back down to the trendline, but 2010, 2011 and 2012 all fit a steady development.

So he clearly has come on as a rider, just maybe not in the same way as others.

Lets see what 2013 brings.
But yeah I want to see him challenging in one day races more.

 

[the sceptic]

team sky should probably ban Kimmage from their press conferences from now on, just to be safe.

 

[martinvickers]

I saw EBH race in (IIRC) 2007 - pretty clear that he was a natural talent, a guy who was going to do well in the Classics. That it hasn't happened in itself is not a surprise - but if he was benefitting the same way Wiggo & Froome have then he would be winning everything.

But here's the thing.

Let's suppose Sky dope. They've made donkey's into racehorses, etc, etc.

Now they have this natural super talent, Eddy.No donkey he, this is Frankel reborn, Powerful, fast, more than decent on hills, can win a sprint. Hell, Kimmage thought he was the next Mercx.

So good in fact that we know Sky have to spending a fortune to keep him. Kimmage said so himself today. Guy ought to be a GC leader in another team, Kimmo's words.

So you are spending a fortune on a superb natural talent, who if he moved up to GC would get nothing but "well, he always had it" from Kimmo.

And you DON'T give the drugs to this super expensive super thoroughbred that would set off no alarms? You allow him to be a relative Classics failure and the least cost-effective domestique in the peleton?

Is that the argument?

Because otherwise Kimmo is left with two option.

EBH is in fact *** clean, and sky are simply wasting money by not turbochargind their new Mercx, content for him to take their cash and be an also-ran while superdoping others far less likely to win, and far more likely to alert Kimmage.

Or is in fact sh!t even when doped, which is a complete waste of money, surely?

Which is it, because it couldn't be simply that Kimmo's hunches on potential are not as good as he thinks, surely?

 

[martinvickers]

Who are the Sky haters??

And I first noticed a lot of anguish from Sky fans on twitter because of Keannaughs tweet - even though at the time no-one knew what Kimmage had said or done.
Rapha should design a kelvar gillet for the Sky fans.

Anyone with a decent grasp of google could have found out pretty quickly - the Norwegian press went big on it within minutes...

 

[JimmyFingers]

The answer is no - and not being able to reach one's potential talent in itself is not suspicious, but there should be a logical and clear explanation.
However Sir Marginal Gains appeared to not know.

you can't explain everything, not everything is quantifiable, sporting success espeicially. If there was a proven formula it would be easy, but there are so many variables, so many unknowns. Plenty of athletes out there with the numbers but not the nous to become a wolrd-beater. Not to say EBH isn't one: he remains an extremely good bike rider, one of the finest in the peloton, hence his selection for the Tour. I wouldn't expect him to be leading a TdF team, but I am sure he is very happy to be there, even if it means sacrificing his own ambitions to protect Froome.

What did Eisel say? A year without the Tour is a wasted year.

It is sensationalist: it is unrealistic to compare EBH to Merckx, and suggest he should be enjoying similar success. It is unrealistic to say EBH has 'lost' his talent, that he isn't anything else but one of the best bike riders in the world.

If EBH went to the tdF as leader, it wouldn't be for GC classification, it would be for green and stage wins, unless I missed something. Kimmage is obfuscating to suggest otherwise.

 

[martinvickers]

team sky should probably ban Kimmage from their press conferences from now on, just to be safe.

If Sky have any sense, they'll let him, no, scrap that, make him ask questions every day...it would end in their favour.

 

[The Hitch]

I do think however there were far better questions Kimmage could ask than about EBH. Its a long winded way of questioning the anglophone miracles, that many won't catch on to.

 

[martinvickers]

I do think however there were far better questions Kimmage could ask than about EBH. Its a long winded way of questioning the anglophone miracles, that many won't catch on to.

Well, he should say that then...

"Dave Brailsford, how come all your blossoming riders are natie english speakers - can we expect kennaugh, dombrowski and thomas to lead GC teams next year or the year after?"

There, put him on the spot. The EBH angle was a complete raspberry. It may have sounded good in his mind, but it just comes across silly.

Always better to be direct. Attempting insinuations eventually can make a body look silly, if they don't have smoking gun to lead to...

 

[Hugh Januss]

Kimmage opens his mouth and the Sky fanboys squeal like 12 year old girls at a One Direction concert.

Fixed that for you.

 

[the sceptic]

I do think however there were far better questions Kimmage could ask than about EBH. Its a long winded way of questioning the anglophone miracles, that many won't catch on to.

Maybe he is waiting for the dawg show in the tour before he starts asking the really difficult ones.

 

[Mr.38%]

Kimmage is indeed not worth the chair. Next time Cioni should remove the bone idle ****er the way he abruptly ended Vive le Vélos interview with Wiggins last year.