Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Libertine Seguros]

Oh... I buy it (& many others too I think).
I mean everybody can spin as much they want to connect the Saxo positive (Rogers) and the Endura case (JTL) to Sky. But the fact remains, both cases happened outside their team.

Correct, but then, how many US Postal riders tested positive?

How many ex-US Postal riders tested positive after leaving the team? I mean, since Sky wanted to make those comparisons to USPS until they realised fans were also making the negative ones as well, maybe that's another comparison we should add?

 

[Benotti69]

Does the same apply to Jonathan Breyne? 22 years old, riding for peanuts on a conti team, went poz at some ****-small race, where who knows what kind of meals were provided (as opposed to the well-known ToBeijing traveling chefs), no known connection to either Ferrari or Freiburg. Now that he's out of the hospital, I guess he can start trying to round up the cash to pay a bunch of lawyers to try to salvage his career.

This is the Sky thread.

 

[Benotti69]

Just to make sure we understand each other: since we are in the Sky thread : yes, Sky are dirty, Contador was doping, but neverthless could've eaten that bloody contaminated steak. Rogers? Well, his case reminds me of Al Capone who got busted for tax evasion.

Contador didn't eat contaminated steak.

But, pro teams or not, I simply cannot imagine them organizing transport of food of certified origin across half of the world. And this really can be the food contamination case.

I dont know where you live but food is flown all over the world. Live fish is flown around the world daily. Tuna caught in the Mediterranean is flown to Japan, so why not EU beef to China?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Wierd non-handshaking Wiggo?

Tim Franks BBC World Service today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25450716
belatedly reports:

About 18 months ago, on the eve of the 2012 Tour de France, I was warned by a press officer not even to proffer my hand to Bradley Wiggins, before an interview at his Majorca training camp. Team Sky simply could not risk me bruising the hands that would grip the handlebars that would steer Britain to its first ever Tour victory.

At the time, I could not work out whether Wiggins' entourage was being utterly precious or utterly reasonable

was that normal? Was Wiggo/Sky hiding something?

 

[SundayRider]

This is what Wiggins said about Rogers in his book- I'm sure there are other bits as well but I just went to the section which he gives an overview of each rider on the 2012 Tour team.

'The tall and studious looking Australian is a triple world time trial champion and he has always been a bit of an idol of mine. In 1997 we raced the Junior Worlds together in South Africa, Mick won the points race, where I came 4th and he was 2nd in the pursuit. Later on that year he was 2nd in the world's junior time trial, so as far back as that, I was thinking 'wow this guy's good'.

There is another two paragraphs or so about how he was road captain at last years Tour and how he is a calming influence, vocal, a great pro, set the tempo on the climbs blah blah but I won't bother typing all that out!

 

[fmk_RoI]

Many cyclists have a rule about not shaking hands. It's nothing to do with bruising. It's everything to do with passing germs. That the hack didn't know that says lots about his level of knowledge.

 

[Pandora]

Contador didn't eat contaminated steak.

Well, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Probably didn't, but we'll never know.

I dont know where you live but food is flown all over the world. Live fish is flown around the world daily. Tuna caught in the Mediterranean is flown to Japan, so why not EU beef to China?

We are offtopic here, but anyways... To import meat in any country is quite a procedure, with certificates and stuff. It's the case also in China, I've checked. You cannot put it into your luggage or a team bus fridge (there is always one, I'm sure of that as well) and show up at customs. Thus, if you feel like eating meat during ToB, you can either trust foods suppliers of a hotel you are staying in or have your own chef who knows where to buy groceries localy that won't cost you your career. Or go vegetarian for the time being, as I already suggested.

 

[Benotti69]

Well, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Probably didn't, but we'll never know.

CAS decided it was not meat.

We are offtopic here, but anyways... To import meat in any country is quite a procedure, with certificates and stuff. It's the case also in China, I've checked. You cannot put it into your luggage or a team bus fridge (there is always one, I'm sure of that as well) and show up at customs. Thus, if you feel like eating meat during ToB, you can either trust foods suppliers of a hotel you are staying in or have your own chef who knows where to buy groceries localy that won't cost you your career. Or go vegetarian for the time being, as I already suggested.

These teams were not told the week before they went, "oh by the way you're racing in China next week, get your bags packed". This race has been on the calendar for 2 or 3 years. If they failed to prepare well then they cant cry about it. China imports lots and I bet a lot of food is flown into China on a daily basis. It was a matter of getting organised, but 50% of riders ate meat in china yet from that batch only 2 positives for Clen, hardly screams contaminated meat is the cause now does it. If 50% of riders tested produced a positive for Clen, well then we have contamination, but as of now it looks like Rogers doped and was finally caught.

 

[LaFlorecita]

CAS decided it was not meat.

The contaminated meat theory was ruled equally unlikely as the transfusion theory. Surely if one is still accepted as possible then the other should be too?

 

[Benotti69]

The contaminated meat theory was ruled equally unlikely as the transfusion theory. Surely if one is still accepted as possible then the other should be too?

I call a spade a spade and Contador is a doper! That CAS didn't believe his contaminated meat story is true, they pointed to possible contamination from supplements which seems crazy ( is Clen in supplements?) and the most obvious scenario was blood doping.

 

[The Hitch]

I call a spade a spade and Contador is a doper! That CAS didn't believe his contaminated meat story is true, they pointed to possible contamination from supplements which seems crazy ( is Clen in supplements?) and the most obvious scenario was blood doping.

You have not adressed flos comment. If you want to base your dismissal of contador's contaminated steak theory on- cas said so, you cannot then declare it must have been blood doping when cas dismissed that as well.

 

[Benotti69]

You have not adressed flos comment. If you want to base your dismissal of contador's contaminated steak theory on- cas said so, you cannot then declare it must have been blood doping when cas dismissed that as well.

Go back further than Flos post if you want to get pedantic and address to whom my original response was to.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You have not adressed flos comment. If you want to base your dismissal of contador's contaminated steak theory on- cas said so, you cannot then declare it must have been blood doping when cas dismissed that as well.

Benny was sloppy but to state CAS dismissed a blood transfusion goes to far. It could not be proven, also due to the missing authorisation of the plasticizer test I believe.

The CAS verdict was rediculous, as was the 'sentence'.

But game on

 

[pastronef]

Eufemiano ‏@oufeh 5h

@Digger_forum is there a Betsy Kennaugh somewhere, angry after her husband for pulling so hard at the bottom of Ventoux, asking how he did ?

 

[DirtyWorks]

... Contador was doping, but neverthless could've eaten that bloody contaminated steak...

No. Just no. Pick transfusion or bad dosage timing, not meat.

Contador claimed, "I ate tainted meat. My supplements are not tainted. Here's the proof." CAS says "No, you didn't eat tainted meat. We don't care that you have extensively documented the cleanliness of your supplements. You ate tainted supplements. " Case closed. No sensible answer from CAS.

 

[thehog]

No. Just no. Pick transfusion or bad dosage timing, not meat.

Contador claimed, "I ate tainted meat. My supplements are not tainted. Here's the proof." CAS says "No, you didn't eat tainted meat. We don't care that you have extensively documented the cleanliness of your supplements. You ate tainted supplements. " Case closed. No sensible answer from CAS.

Agreed and good post.

CAS can only apply the rules. They cannot bend, move and interpret like a federation can.

The UCI shouldn't have appealed.

 

[del1962]

Eufemiano ‏@oufeh 5h

@Digger_forum is there a Betsy Kennaugh somewhere, angry after her husband for pulling so hard at the bottom of Ventoux, asking how he did ?

straws clutching at rearrange

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Chef doing chefy stuff == marginal gain:

...
a team chef who co-opts every hotel kitchen they stay in to ensure there’s no danger of food poisoning and that exact menus are followed,
...
http://fullonlearning.com/2012/09/10/the-learning-cycle-1-aggregation-of-marginal-gains/

One of the most interesting techniques Brailsford has applied to cycle coaching is the “aggregation of marginal gains” the sum of analysing & making many small changes to an environment or training plan. Many examples have been quoted such as heating bib shorts before use to keep the muscles warm, wiping tyres down with alcohol before the start of races to clean grit off and employing a chef to provide optimised meals for the riders.
http://www.broadgateconsultants.com/blog/2013/09/30/the-aggregation-of-marginal-gains/

Except...

How did you end up becoming the head chef for Team Sky?
I was working for 5 seasons in Team CSC [the Danish UCI Pro team, managed by Bjarne Riis] as a chef, and when Team Sky was starting I was contacted 3 months into the season and did a test at one race. Of course I knew a lot of the people from others team, so that's how it happened.
http://www.wheelsuckers.co.uk/page/on-the-rivet-with-soren-kristiansen

 

[gooner]

Eufemiano ‏@oufeh 5h

@Digger_forum is there a Betsy Kennaugh somewhere, angry after her husband for pulling so hard at the bottom of Ventoux, asking how he did ?

And your point is?

 

[Ferminal]

Chef doing chefy stuff == marginal gain:





Except...

Another 20 Watts.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Chef doing chefy stuff == marginal gain:





Except...

Belkin, Saxo and Garmin all have professional chefs as well and I dare say many more teams. These are just the ones I know of.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Belkin, Saxo and Garmin all have professional chefs as well and I dare say many more teams. These are just the ones I know of.

Above and beyond the fact that other teams also have chefs, I thought it worth mentioning that the marginal gain claimed by some via the chef Team Sky hired was kinda ridiculous given that that very chef had spent the previous 5 seasons with CSC.

 

[Parrulo]

Belkin, Saxo and Garmin all have professional chefs as well and I dare say many more teams. These are just the ones I know of.

Europcar actually has a restaurant truck where they have a kitchen and a dinning table just to make sure their food is 100% clean.

More on the Truck

Damn French Pro conti teams and their rudimentary methods!!!

Also according to some posters on Parlamento Mike Snow has grown a full 4 cm's since he joined Sky (according to the stats on the team website). . . Marginal gains i guess

 

[leon7766]

So we are still waiting for any evidence .I was going to say you couldn't make it up but sadly you lot do

 

[thehog]

Europcar actually has a restaurant truck where they have a kitchen and a dinning table just to make sure their food is 100% clean.

More on the Truck

Damn French Pro conti teams and their rudimentary methods!!!

Also according to some posters on Parlamento Mike Snow has grown a full 4 cm's since he joined Sky (according to the stats on the team website). . . Maginal gains i guess

Impressive set up along with the link to Saxo in 2011.

I liked this:

Every 24 hours he measures the riders’ blood and urine for depletion of specific minerals and vitamins, and if they are lacking in something specific, he addresses their deficiency.

Who said the French were lazy and didn't train hard enough?