Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

Yes, its amazing what journalists whose publications aren't dependent on Trek advertising can start to come up with. Hopefully they stay on the case rather than moving on after the weekend

How long before they find Yates photo in the USADA file. With his arm proudly around motoman in full Sky kit.

How long before they correlate Wiggins man-love comments on Armstrong.

 

[ultimobici]

Shane...........

Do tell........

Links??

 

[taiwan]

Do tell........

Links??

IDK it wasn't me that posted the name, I was just explaining which Sutton was being referred to

One of his former teammates posts on here though, you cold always ask or PM him about it...

...but I'm being cute here. I took something I read on here (not an explicit accusation, why I'm also being roundabout), did 2 clicks worth of research, and now I believe Sutton was using as a rider. Pre EPO though.

 

[Tinman]

A little more digging into a murky past. I'm sure can be confirmed/corrected/supplemented by others. Interesting to see the long term brotherhood between Yates & Weltz (& Craig Geater, mechanic from NZ) and lineage from Lance all the way to Wiggins.

1988: Sean Yates & Johnny Weltz & Stephen Roche riding at Fagor. Weltz previously at Once
1989: Yates moves to 7 Eleven, tests positive, Kimmage retires from Fagor after joining late 1988, cites "Doping in Peloton"
1991-96: Yates at Motorola, retires from riding in '96. Johnny Weltz also there as assistant sports director in 1995.
1997: Weltz joins USPS as sports director
1998 -2001: Yates joins Linda McCartney as sports director, also there Craig Geater, Matt Decanio, Brad Wiggins joins 2001. Team set up and run by Julian Clark, folded 2001
2001: Yates joins Team iNova, then CSC Tiscali at invitation of Riis. Weltz and Geater also at CSC.
2004: Weltz moves to Discovery
2005: Yates joins Discovery at invitation of Lance. Geater also joins as Lance's mechanic.
2006: Weltz joins TIAA-Cref, which later becomes Garmin Sharp
2008: Yates joins Astana.
2009: Geater joins Astana, Yates joins Sky, Wiggins at Garmin (with Weltz).

NB. Interesting (!) to see such a content gap on Bradley's early career on Wiki (prior to 2007)... As well as Yates/Weltz/Brailsford by the way...

 

[ultimobici]

A little more digging into a murky past. I'm sure can be confirmed/corrected/supplemented by others. Interesting to see the long term brotherhood between Yates & Weltz (& Craig Geater, mechanic from NZ) and lineage from Lance all the way to Wiggins.

1988: Sean Yates & Johnny Weltz & Stephen Roche riding at Fagor. Weltz previously at Once Once came after Fagor
1989: Yates moves to 7 Eleven, tests positive, Kimmage retires from Fagor after joining late 1988, cites "Doping in Peloton"
1991-96: Yates at Motorola, retires from riding in '96. Johnny Weltz also there as assistant sports director in 1995.
1997: Weltz joins USPS as sports director
1998 -2001: Yates joins Linda McCartney as sports director, also there Craig Geater, Matt Decanio, Brad Wiggins joins 2001. Team set up and run by Julian Clark, folded 2001To be fair the team folded in January 2001 before any racing at all
2001: Yates joins Team iNova, then CSC Tiscali at invitation of Riis. Weltz and Geater also at CSC.
2004: Weltz moves to Discovery
2005: Yates joins Discovery at invitation of Lance. Geater also joins as Lance's mechanic.
2006: Weltz joins TIAA-Cref, which later becomes Garmin Sharp
2008: Yates joins Astana.
2009: Geater joins Astana, Yates joins Sky, Wiggins at Garmin (with Weltz).

NB. Interesting (!) to see such a content gap on Bradley's early career on Wiki (prior to 2007)... As well as Yates/Weltz/Brailsford by the way...

If you're going to quote Wiki, at least do us the courtesy of reading it properly.

 

[jilbiker]

Sky and Wiggins should be shaking. The USADA report shows that it is no longer tests that can sink you but also your own team mates and "close" confidants. Unless you are doping completely in isolation, the truth will come out one day.

 

[Tinman]

If you're going to quote Wiki, at least do us the courtesy of reading it properly.

Thanks for corrections, disclaimer was at the top. Data comes from more than Wiki; as stated, Wiki detail on Sky folk's early careers' remarkably thin...

 

[blackcat]

there early careers were remarkably thin

 

[Tinman]

Wiki detail on Sky folk's early careers' remarkably thin...

And below from my post in another thread. History being cleansed... But people in the know will fill in the blanks. Good on ya Darryl Webster and others.

Paid bloggers didn't work. Deleting your on-line transgressions is now required.

Check reputation.com, the company which Howard Bragman has just joined.

Bragman states on CNN that Armstrong's legacy may survive the accusations... Hmmm... touting for business or already in the game?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/11/us/armstrong-doping-legacy/index.html

http://www.reputation.com//

Howard and similar companies are likely to be pretty busy right now as the past is catching up. I wonder if team Sky has realized this and for how long already. Remarkable how empty the wiki profiles of Brailsford and Yates are... Seems logical I guess if your parent company is Murdoch controlled and the past is murky?

 

[Tinman]

there early careers were remarkably thin

But the people connections were being forged, together with a doping blood bond.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He has. This year. You just don't believe it...which is fine. You're entitled to be ignorant. Time will show me to be right though.

I think time will show you to be paid to post on the Internet to defend a team or rider. It's not unusual. You claim physiological knowledge but share nothing, explain nothing, add nothing, then take a poke at Froome, hoping to deflect attention from Wiggins.

You cannot even keep your story straight...

Wiggins is clean. Don't know about Froome or Porte, Rogers etc. If SKY are going to be interrogated it should be the Leinders issue. Kerrison, meh, a sideshow. Performance...nothing to see (no performance indicative of doping).

Every performance this year of autobus Brad was indicative of doping.

Here's your wisdom: note, acoggan did not reply to your post debunked (again) here. I would dearly love him to, as you were writing in response to him agreeing with you, but for some reason he never returned to validate your ... understanding of physiology. Perhaps you could email him and get him to back you up?

The way I have understood this, with regards to Wiggins, is that

1. He has (earlier in his career) been able to compete at a very high level on the track and on the road without ever having to fully train his lactate/anaerobic system....this is all relative of course.

Brad did nothing on the road till doped 2009. Nothing. I have debunked every single example offered as indicative of Brad having any ability as a road rider. Please, show me one example of him being provably any good on the road.

As for the track? Very average fish in a very tiny pond.

Anyone who knows anything about physiology knows you train your anaerobic system to do the IP. In 2006, Brad is doing Tabatas for a 4.1km road TT. Essentially a road IP. You think he didn't do them for IP? You think Tabatas don't train the anaerobic system? You do claim or try to come across as understanding physiology. Perhaps you could insult me now, and tell me to grow up like uncle Krebs, or perhaps you could disagree with what I am writing and show me the error of my ways. Pretty comfortable it will be the former.

2. This would have been his weakness in GTs...he could TT well (ride quickly aerobically) but would be challenged by steep mountains/explosive mountain attacks

In 2006 he was between world championships @ 4km IP, and olympic gold medals in 4km IP (2004, 2008). In Dauphine 2006 he was hitting the exact same power (580W) as those world champs and olympic gold medal rides, he did a 4.1km road TT and came... 21st. He had 2 weeks training in Mallorca to specifically fine tune for this single, 4.1km TT performance. He had a mechanic, masseuse, and video techs all for him for to train for a single stage. He came 21st. He would need 10% more power to match the winner's time. His performance at longer TTs compared to world-class athletes was consistently as poor.

6. No way round this...training on long steep hills at altitude to add the peak to the aerobic base.

This is false physiology - training at altitude makes you slower. Altitude = low oxygen = hypoxia = reduced power = lower intensity training. Ask Armstrong, who complained about no top end - Ferrari replies via his son that that is because he had trained at altitude, not enough at sea level, where you can actually generate power, and hence develop your top end. Here, let me help you:

Now explain how Sky comes out of an altitude training camp and finishes 3rd at a mini tour. Then does more altitude, and comes back over and over and over to dominate every single race after that one, all the way up to the Tour and then Olympic TT. Training at altitude = lowered intensity capability.

7. Waste every other rider in the team (including Cav) to drag him up those hills....as aerobically as possible.

More false physiology. Here's a clue: riding uphill longer than 4 minutes is aerobic. The anaerobic contribution for 30 minutes is 2% max. 1hr is 1%. By definition, riding up a hill is aerobic. Aerobically as possible? You mean, like, pedaling as often as possible? How do you ride uphill, which is an aerobic only activity, as aerobically as possible? Please. Enlighten us.

Fact: Rogers increases his threshold power 5-7% in a year, at age 32 after 10+ years as a pro.

There is nothing normal about Sky's performances this year. Nothing.

 

[orbeas]

Sky

chris sutton? lol why don't we just go make up some names? uran and henao? they are from colombia, the country of the cocaine!! and also fire dowsett because he was in an u23 team, associated with bruyneel, or knees because he's german and according to german media all riders are doped. also get rid of eisel because he was at one time in the same team with pozzato and sinkewitz

More than one person named Sutton on the Sky Team !!!!!

 

[MatParker117]

The British Press will probably drop it after Brailsford and Wiggins both get there knighthoods and the Premier League comes back after the international break.

 

[The Hitch]

Sky and Wiggins should be shaking. The USADA report shows that it is no longer tests that can sink you but also your own team mates and "close" confidants. Unless you are doping completely in isolation, the truth will come out one day.

Of course they dope in isolation now. people learn and techniques evolve. Its like how criminals eventually learned not to talk on phones.

Skys philosophy of 100% planning of every minor detail isnt totally made up. They know that if you 100% plan every detail in doping, leave no stone unturned, then you can easily sell it as clean cycling to the majority.

Lance was a moron who openly walked around boasting about doping. To expect dopers today to act likewise is silly.

 

[bobbins]

Normally hate the Daily Mail. I'm however willing to let this one go by without complaining.

Having printed that fairy tale by Brian smith the other day I don't think that the daily mail have much credibility in this. Of all people!!!!!

 

[armchairclimber]

I think time will show you to be paid to post on the Internet to defend a team or rider. It's not unusual. You claim physiological knowledge but share nothing, explain nothing, add nothing, then take a poke at Froome, hoping to deflect attention from Wiggins.

You cannot even keep your story straight...



Every performance this year of autobus Brad was indicative of doping.

Here's your wisdom: note, acoggan did not reply to your post debunked (again) here. I would dearly love him to, as you were writing in response to him agreeing with you, but for some reason he never returned to validate your ... understanding of physiology. Perhaps you could email him and get him to back you up?


Brad did nothing on the road till doped 2009. Nothing. I have debunked every single example offered as indicative of Brad having any ability as a road rider. Please, show me one example of him being provably any good on the road.

As for the track? Very average fish in a very tiny pond.

Anyone who knows anything about physiology knows you train your anaerobic system to do the IP. In 2006, Brad is doing Tabatas for a 4.1km road TT. Essentially a road IP. You think he didn't do them for IP? You think Tabatas don't train the anaerobic system? You do claim or try to come across as understanding physiology. Perhaps you could insult me now, and tell me to grow up like uncle Krebs, or perhaps you could disagree with what I am writing and show me the error of my ways. Pretty comfortable it will be the former.



In 2006 he was between world championships @ 4km IP, and olympic gold medals in 4km IP (2004, 2008). In Dauphine 2006 he was hitting the exact same power (580W) as those world champs and olympic gold medal rides, he did a 4.1km road TT and came... 21st. He had 2 weeks training in Mallorca to specifically fine tune for this single, 4.1km TT performance. He had a mechanic, masseuse, and video techs all for him for to train for a single stage. He came 21st. He would need 10% more power to match the winner's time. His performance at longer TTs compared to world-class athletes was consistently as poor.



This is false physiology - training at altitude makes you slower. Altitude = low oxygen = hypoxia = reduced power = lower intensity training. Ask Armstrong, who complained about no top end - Ferrari replies via his son that that is because he had trained at altitude, not enough at sea level, where you can actually generate power, and hence develop your top end. Here, let me help you:

Now explain how Sky comes out of an altitude training camp and finishes 3rd at a mini tour. Then does more altitude, and comes back over and over and over to dominate every single race after that one, all the way up to the Tour and then Olympic TT. Training at altitude = lowered intensity capability.




More false physiology. Here's a clue: riding uphill longer than 4 minutes is aerobic. The anaerobic contribution for 30 minutes is 2% max. 1hr is 1%. By definition, riding up a hill is aerobic. Aerobically as possible? You mean, like, pedaling as often as possible? "How do you ride uphill, which is an aerobic only activity, as aerobically as possible?" Please. Enlighten us.

Fact: Rogers increases his threshold power 5-7% in a year, at age 32 after 10+ years as a pro.

There is nothing normal about Sky's performances this year. Nothing.

If you are going to talk physiology, at least learn it correctly first. Hill climbing over 4 minutes is not entirely aerobic. Back to school.

"How do you ride uphill, which is an aerobic only activity, as aerobically as possible?"

By not answering sharp accelerations. I won't be taking your posts seriously any more. You're even more dense than The Big ring

 

[ebandit]

dear me

If you are going to talk physiology, at least learn it correctly first. Hill climbing over 4 minutes is not entirely aerobic. Back to school.

"How do you ride uphill, which is an aerobic only activity, as aerobically as possible?"

By not answering sharp accelerations. I won't be taking your posts seriously any more. You're even more dense than The Big ring

dear wiggo is the big ring............change of id

and i'm denser than mahogany

 

[armchairclimber]

dear wiggo is the big ring............change of id

and i'm denser than mahogany

See that little winky thing in my post?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

More than one person named Sutton on the Sky Team !!!!!

what?


.....

 

[orbeas]

Sky

Ryo, suggest you read your posts and you will see that I never mentioned chris sutton...you did.

Brailsford said he was getting ride of anyone with a past doping history, which is a fair number of the present older Team Sky staff.

 

[JimmyFingers]

This is false physiology - training at altitude makes you slower. Altitude = low oxygen = hypoxia = reduced power = lower intensity training. Ask Armstrong, who complained about no top end - Ferrari replies via his son that that is because he had trained at altitude, not enough at sea level, where you can actually generate power, and hence develop your top end. Here, let me help you:

Now explain how Sky comes out of an altitude training camp and finishes 3rd at a mini tour. Then does more altitude, and comes back over and over and over to dominate every single race after that one, all the way up to the Tour and then Olympic TT. Training at altitude = lowered intensity capability.

"Unlike some high-altitude venues, it's possible to train at sea level, which is less damaging at high intensity; unlike Alpine locations the weather is relatively stable in April and May." Kerrison on training at Teide

I just want to know whether a rider's performance is set in stone throughout his career, because you make a lot of early results from Wiggins compared to his present form. You've also previously stated that it is impossible for a track rider to do well on the road because Wiggins is the only rider to have successfully done it.

Also calling Wiggins an 'average fish' on the track is plain ridiculous. It may fit your paradigm but several gold medals at the Olympics as well as at the World Championships. he was even pretty handy at the Madison, which is an endurance event of course.

 

[orbeas]

sky

From todays Mail on Sunday in the UK..

" that a fourth person from Team Sky - a current senior employee - has opted to ' live a lie ' in regards to his doping past '

be interesting to see how this pans out !!!!!

 

[Benotti69]

"Unlike some high-altitude venues, it's possible to train at sea level, which is less damaging at high intensity; unlike Alpine locations the weather is relatively stable in April and May." Kerrison on training at Teide

I just want to know whether a rider's performance is set in stone throughout his career, because you make a lot of early results from Wiggins compared to his present form. You've also previously stated that it is impossible for a track rider to do well on the road because Wiggins is the only rider to have successfully done it.

Also calling Wiggins an 'average fish' on the track is plain ridiculous. It may fit your paradigm but several gold medals at the Olympics as well as at the World Championships. he was even pretty handy at the Madison, which is an endurance event of course.

Yeah run over 3 weeks with MTFs too

 

[sartoris]

I bet the Sky Postal guys must be scared sh*tless. They're next

 

[The Hitch]

I bet the Sky Postal guys must be scared sh*tless. They're next

Based on what.? If this stupid prediction doesn't pan out, will you leave the forum.?