Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[taiwan]

I don't know if the interview with Brailsford that broadcast on 5 Live this evening is available in its entirety. The man could not have made things more plain. Sky haven't doped. They don't dope. They will not dope. They do it clean.

Of course, there will still be those that don't believe him...but they'll mostly be clinic loons or Australians disappointed at their nation's disappointing sporting year (thrashed by clean Poms for heaven's sake).

--> ignore.

 

[armchairclimber]

--> ignore.

Sorry, shouldn't tease

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't know if the interview with Brailsford that broadcast on 5 Live this evening is available in its entirety. The man could not have made things more plain. Sky haven't doped. They don't dope. They will not dope. They do it clean.

Of course, there will still be those that don't believe him...but they'll mostly be clinic loons or Australians disappointed at their nation's disappointing sporting year (thrashed by clean Poms for heaven's sake).

Danilo di Luca maintained that he was innocent. So did Valverde. So did Contador. Even Ivaïlo fricking Gabrovski maintained his innocence. So did David Millar, until he was found with the stuff right there in front of him. Davide Rebellin had the bare-faced effrontery to call his Olympic medal "a victory for clean cycling".

So if Dave Brailsford tells me "this is all clean", I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt, because he clearly has a vested interest. And bearing in mind that even JimmyFingers, one of Sky's staunchest defenders here, has said that Sky couldn't have looked much more suspicious if they tried, even if Sky are clean they're not doing a good job of promoting their clean cycling outlook.

 

[skimazk]

Danilo di Luca maintained that he was innocent. So did Valverde. So did Contador. Even Ivaïlo fricking Gabrovski maintained his innocence. So did David Millar, until he was found with the stuff right there in front of him. Davide Rebellin had the bare-faced effrontery to call his Olympic medal "a victory for clean cycling".

So if Dave Brailsford tells me "this is all clean", I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt, because he clearly has a vested interest. And bearing in mind that even JimmyFingers, one of Sky's staunchest defenders here, has said that Sky couldn't have looked much more suspicious if they tried, even if Sky are clean they're not doing a good job of promoting their clean cycling outlook.

+1

well said

 

[armchairclimber]

How is sky saying young riders SHOULD cheat?

Exactly, this is why Brailsford's interview should be required listening in the clinic.
Brailsford has now made himself the most unequivocal anti-doper in the sport. He has gone further than anyone else...including JV, who I respect. He couldn't really dance to the clinic tune any more energetically.

 

[armchairclimber]

Danilo di Luca maintained that he was innocent. So did Valverde. So did Contador. Even Ivaïlo fricking Gabrovski maintained his innocence. So did David Millar, until he was found with the stuff right there in front of him. Davide Rebellin had the bare-faced effrontery to call his Olympic medal "a victory for clean cycling".

So if Dave Brailsford tells me "this is all clean", I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt, because he clearly has a vested interest. And bearing in mind that even JimmyFingers, one of Sky's staunchest defenders here, has said that Sky couldn't have looked much more suspicious if they tried, even if Sky are clean they're not doing a good job of promoting their clean cycling outlook.

Several of those arseholes can't even bring themselves to stop defending Lance. Jeez. Pick some better examples.

 

[cineteq]

Exactly, this is why Brailsford's interview should be required listening in the clinic.
Brailsford has now made himself the most unequivocal anti-doper in the sport. He has gone further than anyone else...including JV, who I respect. He couldn't really dance to the clinic tune any more energetically.

Are you guys really buying into this front-end BS?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Several of those arseholes can't even bring themselves to stop defending Lance. Jeez. Pick some better examples.

It doesn't matter who I name (here's some more: Tadej Valjavec, Mikel Astarloza, Stefan Schumacher, Floyd Landis, João Cabreira, Nuno Ribeiro), it doesn't change that they're guys who told us they were innocent, that they were clean, and that lied.

I'm not saying Brailsford is definitely lying (I've done that enough elsewhere in this thread), I'm saying that I've heard "we're clean. We're doing it the right way" said by liars so many times that it doesn't merit blind faith anymore regardless of who says it, especially not from those with vested interests.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. We cycling fans have been fooled approximately 25,693 times, so pardon me if I dig out some vintage Who and turn the volume up to 11 when Brailsford starts with the same speech we've all heard before.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

^^^ Or in the words of Mr.Bush "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." #cliche

 

[armchairclimber]

It doesn't matter who I name (here's some more: Tadej Valjavec, Mikel Astarloza, Stefan Schumacher, Floyd Landis, João Cabreira, Nuno Ribeiro), it doesn't change that they're guys who told us they were innocent, that they were clean, and that lied.

I'm not saying Brailsford is definitely lying (I've done that enough elsewhere in this thread), I'm saying that I've heard "we're clean. We're doing it the right way" said by liars so many times that it doesn't merit blind faith anymore regardless of who says it, especially not from those with vested interests.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. We cycling fans have been fooled approximately 25,693 times, so pardon me if I dig out some vintage Who and turn the volume up to 11 when Brailsford starts with the same speech we've all heard before.

Yes, I understand...but if you don't notice and acknowledge change then you become part of the problem. You become an anachronism that belongs in another time. It doesn't help. The argument that you are having loses credibility.

I'm an anti-doper FFS. We're on the same side. I just recognise change when I see it.

 

[skimazk]

Yes, I understand...but if you don't notice and acknowledge change then you become part of the problem. You become an anachronism that belongs in another time. It doesn't help. The argument that you are having loses credibility.

I'm an anti-doper FFS. We're on the same side. I just recognise change when I see it.

give it a few weeks, when the padova case erupts and suddenly it's not the dark 90's or early 00's but 2006-2012 period where the top riders get implicated.... add some more humanplasma, puerto, fuenta's just keep cranking out the line that change has cometh....

personally i would recommend you get a new prescription for your glasses. As this sport only has false prophets preaching for their own monetary interest.

 

[thirteen]

^^^ Or in the words of Mr.Bush "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." #cliche

+1 although any excuse to turn the volume up to 11 on vintage Who can't be all bad

 

[armchairclimber]

+1 although any excuse to turn the volume up to 11 on vintage Who can't be all bad

Well, I look forward to seeing Garmin and Sky implicated (reply re. Padova)

 

[fatandfast]

Yes, I understand...but if you don't notice and acknowledge change then you become part of the problem. You become an anachronism that belongs in another time. It doesn't help. The argument that you are having loses credibility.

I'm an anti-doper FFS. We're on the same side. I just recognise change when I see it.

the change needs to come before,during and after the process. The last half dozen posts have names of riders that proclaimed innocence..duuuuh? If the teams, races and UCI don't have things in place for riders that want to shorten the justice process. Lance is caught. Nothing has changed.
The scientific protocols should have been kept secret not sold to the highest bidder. Lance and his medical masters should not have know what thresholds they were looking for.
The national fed testing, IOC, big races,UCI all have different handling methods and it's so spread out that it's just logical that micro dosing is still going on. Passports are a great idea, if they are kept and tested by somebody outside of McQuaid's influence or control. The labs can't share info with dirty team doctors by accident or otherwise.

Until the penalties for admission are less than rolling the dice there is no incentive. Bobby Julich. Another guy that proves it out. Never caught,but still just as dirty as Lance.
Things need to change now because without quality sponsors and races the money to regulate and promote the sport will not be there. Why is everybody else getting this right? How is the NFL, w head injuries,murderers,labor strikes,sky high ticket and concession prices and drug use able to put a product out there that people want to buy?
Maybe some exec that runs a real sport like NBA,FIFA or F! needs to take the helm of pro cycling because this grown within talent pool is full of turds. Hire a pro no more best ex bike racer available.

 

[armchairclimber]

the change needs to come before,during and after the process. The last half dozen posts have names of riders that proclaimed innocence..duuuuh? If the teams, races and UCI don't have things in place for riders that want to shorten the justice process. Lance is caught. Nothing has changed.
The scientific protocols should have been kept secret not sold to the highest bidder. Lance and his medical masters should not have know what thresholds they were looking for.
The national fed testing, IOC, big races,UCI all have different handling methods and it's so spread out that it's just logical that micro dosing is still going on. Passports are a great idea, if they are kept and tested by somebody outside of McQuaid's influence or control. The labs can't share info with dirty team doctors by accident or otherwise.

Until the penalties for admission are less than rolling the dice there is no incentive. Bobby Julich. Another guy that proves it out. Never caught,but still just as dirty as Lance.
Things need to change now because without quality sponsors and races the money to regulate and promote the sport will not be there. Why is everybody else getting this right? How is the NFL, w head injuries,murderers,labor strikes,sky high ticket and concession prices and drug use able to put a product out there that people want to buy?
Maybe some exec that runs a real sport like NBA,FIFA or F! needs to take the helm of pro cycling because this grown within talent pool is full of turds. Hire a pro no more best ex bike racer available.

Yeah, give it to Ecclestone....NOT. I think even Pat is preferable to that shyster.

 

[Arnout]

Yeah, give it to Ecclestone....NOT. I think even Pat is preferable to that shyster.

At least in Formula 1 there is a system in which one can complain about rule-breaking of other teams anonymously.

And if a team is found to be seriously cheating, there is a precedent for a 100 million dollar fine.

Everything better than McQuaid. Except Blatter maybe.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes, I understand...but if you don't notice and acknowledge change then you become part of the problem. You become an anachronism that belongs in another time. It doesn't help. The argument that you are having loses credibility.

I'm an anti-doper FFS. We're on the same side. I just recognise change when I see it.

And how do you recognise it? I'd like to know what telltale signs there were, because as far as I can see, there was a bunch of Emperor's New Clothes stuff, some corporate PR jargon of the worst kind, and we're both Betonköpfe, you're just more optimistic than me.

 

[skimazk]

Garmin deserves little credit in my opinion. JV knowingly recruited riders he had to know were tainted badly from their time with USPS. Having first hand knowledge how things were run there. But did nothing to get them to fess up to their deeds until the FBI and later USADA forced his hands. yes he spins the PR machine nicely but lets face it he still has suspended riders on his hands after flat out denying they would be suspended dureing the TdF.

 

[Krebs cycle]

Danilo di Luca maintained that he was innocent. So did Valverde. So did Contador. Even Ivaïlo fricking Gabrovski maintained his innocence. So did David Millar, until he was found with the stuff right there in front of him. Davide Rebellin had the bare-faced effrontery to call his Olympic medal "a victory for clean cycling".

So if Dave Brailsford tells me "this is all clean", I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt, because he clearly has a vested interest. And bearing in mind that even JimmyFingers, one of Sky's staunchest defenders here, has said that Sky couldn't have looked much more suspicious if they tried, even if Sky are clean they're not doing a good job of promoting their clean cycling outlook.

So let me get this straight, Sky are doping, but since this is illegal they don't want anyone to know, so they say they are clean (but of course just like all dopers they are lying on that one). But then, unlike all dopers, they do whatever they can and tell the truth about various other things in order to make people think they are doping, because obviously they really want people to know they are doping even though they don't want people to know because it's illegal?

Ah yes makes perfect sense.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So let me get this straight, Sky are doping, but since this is illegal they don't want anyone to know, so they say they are clean (but of course just like all dopers they are lying on that one). But then, unlike all dopers, they do whatever they can and tell the truth about various other things in order to make people think they are doping, because obviously they really want people to know they are doping even though they don't want people to know because it's illegal?

Ah yes makes perfect sense.

No, you're being deliberately obtuse.

The argument presented was, Brailsford said in no uncertain terms that they were clean, therefore they're clean.

I therefore counter-argued with, many other people have said they were clean, and they weren't clean.

Ergo, not everybody who says they're clean is clean, therefore the statements to that effect cannot be taken at face value without further information.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Not sure if youre trolling or not, but the world is full of doctors. Im sure it would be possible to find one that didnt have a reputation as a former doping doctor.

that doctor has no clue about cycling. what good is that. you don't want a doctor that has to learn everything yet

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

give it a few weeks, when the padova case erupts and suddenly it's not the dark 90's or early 00's but 2006-2012 period where the top riders get implicated.... add some more humanplasma, puerto, fuenta's just keep cranking out the line that change has cometh....

personally i would recommend you get a new prescription for your glasses. As this sport only has false prophets preaching for their own monetary interest.

lol. shall we make a bet that nothing comes of fruitition in that case regarding doping?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

No, you're being deliberately obtuse.

The argument presented was, Brailsford said in no uncertain terms that they were clean, therefore they're clean.

I therefore counter-argued with, many other people have said they were clean, and they weren't clean.

Ergo, not everybody who says they're clean is clean, therefore the statements to that effect cannot be taken at face value without further information.

many other riders and team were having results and especially the way how they pulled of that made you already wary at the very least of dope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-y38WZAtgc

stuff like this doesn't happen anymore, for better or for worse and this was already far better than the mid 90s, which everyone with eyes was seeing what was going on.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Bobby Julich has left Sky and admitted to doping. So seems like the criticized "PR-stunt" with the contract wasn't just a PR stunt after all...

For all the **** Sky are getting on here, at least they are making an effort now. Meanwhile dirty liars like Kim Andersen, Ibarguren, Ekimov etc get to keep their jobs in their respective teams.

Wiggins, Porte, Rogers and Brailsford are still there.

Funny how you're allowed to hire dopers but dopers themselves get the sack. Hypocritical? Like he didn't know? Disingenuous?

Look at Lowe's interview. He says, "riders fear team managers".

So tell me the riders are solely to blame and yet again bear the full brunt of the punishment. Sky team manager - nada. Another lesson in *** covering is all he has to handle.

 

[ferryman]

Wiggins, Porte, Rogers and Brailsford AND FROOME are still there.

Funny how you're allowed to hire dopers but dopers themselves get the sack. Hypocritical? Like he didn't know? Disingenuous?

Look at Lowe's interview. He says, "riders fear team managers".

So tell me the riders are solely to blame and yet again bear the full brunt of the punishment. Sky team manager - nada. Another lesson in *** covering is all he has to handle.

Sorry man, edited that for you