Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[sublimit]

He tends to wear it as a badge of honour, it is 'EX' bit that is emphasized rather than the drug cheat part.

No one ever says 'Dave, how can we take you seriously, you lied as a doper, you fawned over Armstrong and you viciously attacked Landis when he blew the whistle, and now you are presenting yourself as the white knight to save cycling from itself?'

No one ever picks up on or gives Millar a hard time about the things he has said and done.

I'm not saying he's perfect because clearly he's said a lot of dumb things down the years but he's not lauded over here like you people imagine. Fans regard him as a classy rider for sure but its usually a mixed response from everybody else.

And the stuff with being compared to Dwayne Chambers before the Olympics and whether he should be allowed to compete must of been quite painful for the guy. My last word on DM now back to Sky....

 

[BroDeal]

quote from above

'Wiggins has, however, used the fact that the British press would destroy him as a reason why he can't ever possibly dope'

indeed they would...............there would be no hiding for brad

that just states the obvious brad dares not to dope................not saying
that british riders would never dope

That logic worked brilliantly for why Armstrong could never dope. How did that work out?

 

[ebandit]

?

That logic worked brilliantly for why Armstrong could never dope. How did that work out?

comedy gold................there is no connection between my quote and what you wrote?

what lance said / did is no indicator of what brad does

i ride a bike.................obvious doper just like lance!

 

[BroDeal]

comedy gold................there is no connection between my quote and what you wrote?

what lance said / did is no indicator of what brad does

Oh, there is most defintely is. You are trying to use a risible argument that Wiggins could not dope because the Brits would tear him apart if he was caught. Armstrong used the same argument, only more so. He added in the disappointment of people with cancer and the idea that because of cancer, he would not risk his health.

Armstrong is now experiencing the wrath of the betrayed public. It was predictable. It did not stop him from doping.

At least Armstrong could say that he cared enough about what the public thought to try to fit in. He did not go to semi formal occasions looking like a weirdo. Wiggins looks like he is channeling fashion advice from Jimmy Savile.

 

[Benotti69]

Chris Sutton says re. the USADA report

"I just don't want to read it, full stop"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sutton-on-skys-anti-doping-policy

(Unlike most here I'm pro Sky and not accusing him of anything but) I can't understand this response. Can anyone explain why he might feel like this. If there's a scandal in one's own profession I think most people would at least feel the need to be informed about it even if not interested. Much more so when it's causing a colleague to be fired.

What an idiot. Why would you not educte yourself to the dangers in your sport?

Sutton = Fail.

 

[losersssss]

I am shocked by this topic! Nationalistic posts, unfunded oneliners.... etc.

I can't see what is different for a doper in Brittain and elsewhere. Millar still had a cyclingcontract, still is given a voice in public, so... dope, get caught, admit and no problem at all (ok, not in the olympic team, but that is beyong this topic).

Sky has a zero-tolerance policy, like all other teams: when you get caught, you are fired (see Sutton, like many else in de LA-case). I think some of the riders will see it as: do what you want, but do it very well and dont get caught! Then everything is ok. (excuse: he is never caught or tested positive!).

It is not about positive testing today, that is old school thinking. We had to move on and make it possible to catch dopers from blood passports and so on. At the moment, they are not proactive enough. Some riders have suspcious blood measures (I cant recall names, but others will), but it remains silent about them. Like no one is interested.... and they still race.
(I understand that is it difficult to claim doping, but make an effort!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am shocked by this topic! Nationalistic posts, unfunded oneliners.... etc.

I can't see what is different for a doper in Britain and elsewhere. Millar still had a cyclingcontract, still is given a voice in public, so... dope, get caught, admit and no problem at all (ok, not in the olympic team, but that is beyong this topic).

It may have been a problem for him getting back into it, but Millar did ride for the British team at the Olympics.

 

[oldcrank]

Cycling never was, and isn't now, just about Lance Armstrong.
Well done Sutto, for not getting sucked in by lazy journos
looking for a juicy quote. There are sponsors that have
stuck with the sport, let's give them their due and not
talk endlessly about the sad American cheater.

 

[ToreBear]

Chris Sutton says re. the USADA report

"I just don't want to read it, full stop"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sutton-on-skys-anti-doping-policy

(Unlike most here I'm pro Sky and not accusing him of anything but) I can't understand this response. Can anyone explain why he might feel like this. If there's a scandal in one's own profession I think most people would at least feel the need to be informed about it even if not interested. Much more so when it's causing a colleague to be fired.

Part of being an athlete is about being focused and not get distracted by things you can't do any thing about. This could be one explanation for avoiding being informed.

There could be many other reasons of course.

Guilt of doping.
Guilt of not reporting a doper.
Guilt of reporting a doper.
Dyslexia.
Inattention.
Bad eyesight.
Busy playing videogames.
etc. etc.

 

[thehog]

In the phot Brad looks cool, unlike Cadel who looks like a banker. (or Paul Robinson from Neighbours)

Cadel does look a lot like Stefan Dennis from Neighbours.

 

[Benotti69]

I am shocked by this topic! Nationalistic posts, unfunded oneliners.... etc.

I can't see what is different for a doper in Brittain and elsewhere. Millar still had a cyclingcontract, still is given a voice in public, so... dope, get caught, admit and no problem at all (ok, not in the olympic team, but that is beyong this topic).

Sky has a zero-tolerance policy, like all other teams: when you get caught, you are fired (see Sutton, like many else in de LA-case). I think some of the riders will see it as: do what you want, but do it very well and dont get caught! Then everything is ok. (excuse: he is never caught or tested positive!).

That policy gave Leinders, Rogers, Yates, Julich and Barry jobs.

Movistar had no problem taking back Valverde after his ban. Astana same with Vino. They were not fired!

 

[losersssss]

@benotti69
these riders/teams are exceptions, indeed most of the riders are welcome whereever after the ban.

 

[ebandit]

oh?

Oh, there is most defintely is. You are trying to use a risible argument that Wiggins could not dope because the Brits would tear him apart if he was caught. Armstrong used the same argument, only more so. He added in the disappointment of people with cancer and the idea that because of cancer, he would not risk his health.

Armstrong is now experiencing the wrath of the betrayed public. It was predictable. It did not stop him from doping.

At least Armstrong could say that he cared enough about what the public thought to try to fit in. He did not go to semi formal occasions looking like a weirdo. Wiggins looks like he is channeling fashion advice from Jimmy Savile.

i think your missing the point.........i have never said and would never say
'wiggins could not dope' but that no british athlete follows the line
spun by those in the clinic

'we're clean.......we're british........british athletes don't dope'.........that's the myth

forget lance it's nothing to do with him............read 'sky thread'

+ looking 'weird' is no indicator of anything but your narrow minded views

 

[oldcrank]

At least Armstrong could say that he cared enough about what the public thought to try to fit in. He did not go to semi formal occasions looking like a weirdo. Wiggins looks like he is channeling fashion advice from Jimmy Savile.

So what does that say about FabCon who channels CoCo Chanel?

 

[thirteen]

So what does that say about FabCon who channels CoCo Chanel?

Fab could get away wearing anything (or nothing) and still look fab.

 

[thehog]

Sensational post, like an appetiser for the 'Sky 2013 prediction' thread that will pop up over xmas, a little taster for us and it works for me! Not sure if any of that will materialise but its sure fun to read.

Crystal ball says the following:

Wiggins gets 7th in Giro based on TT form.
Porte strong early but falls away to nothing.
Porte gets frustrated in latter part of 2013. Wants results for himself and Wiggins has lost interest in "team".
Froome goes gangbusters at Tour. In one stage he goes over the top and either wins solo by 2 minutes or does his one handed look around gestures again. He'll drop Contador on one stage and put serious time into him.
The peloton after the Armstrong fall out will begin to call him out.
Froome with the pressure of doping innuendo will start to dial it back and drop away.
Porte will either test positive or non-confess confess by eluding to certain "things" in the press.
Sky's classic campaign will be woeful.

Froome has the potential to blow this whole thing up. He is Michael Rasmussen 2.0. He's worse than Rasmussen because even with bags for of plasma Chicken was still a fairly poor ITT'er.

Froome just takes it to a new level of stupidity.

 

[JimmyFingers]

But you are tarring Wiggins with the same brush: exactly the sort of assumption I am criticising. It becomes a self-perpetuating delusion, you merely re-inforce your prejudice at every turn by the acts of others. Bradley Wiggins ISN'T Lance Armstrong. He career follows an entirely different trajectory and he has an entirely different cultural background. They are distinct people, separated not only nationality but by generation. To condemn Bradley for lance's actions is a crime in itself. 3 times gold medal winner, 7 times world Champion on the track. He came to the road late but applied that clear natural talent in the same way and has proved himself. Tearing that down through doping-by-assumption smacks of prejudice and an agenda based on motives I can guess at but won't voice.

REPEAT: Wiggins isn't Lance Armstrong. Sky aren't US Postal. The latter can **** off, I loathe them for what they have done to this sport. Don't continue that damage by attempting to destroy everything that comes after them.

If you do what hope is there for cycling.

If you are quoting this yet again as an example of a pom or a fanboy defending Brits from accusations of doping because its not part of the 'culture' then you are just plain stupid, or desperate, or both. Read what I write: I am saying Brad and Lance are different people, from different countries and cultures so their motivations and personality are distinct i.e. their nurture throughout their life and upbringing are different so they cannot just simplistically be lumped together as guilty of the same crimes, an over-riding feature of some people's conviction that Wiggins dopes.

It was not 'he's a Brit, Brit's don't dope' argument, no matter how much you want it to be. If you are going to say to me a Texan and a Londoner share the same culture then you lack a fundamental understanding of the word.

No surprise that the most recent person to quote this to use it in this way is an Australian. I know you struggle with culture of any kind

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Cavendish is not the press you dummy. And no, no clues. I'm not here to provide a service for the likes of you.

Anyway this thread is about Sky.

We don't know what Cavendish says unless it is reported by the press, you dummy. Hayden Roulston is calling Millar out as a poor voice for cycling compared to anyone else who didn't dope - but you don't see that reported. Funny that. Yet apparently they give David Millar such a hard time.

As for clues - I read the online versions and have never seen an example of this "hard time" Millar receives. What I do see are lots of soapbox moments as Millar spruiks his and his sister's team's cleanliness, proof of which is down entirely to "I say it therefore it is true". Yeah right. Such a hard time.

Good grief.

Face it, if you are going to claim something is happening publicly, and have no published proof, you are either lying or deluded.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If you are quoting this yet again as an example of a pom or a fanboy defending Brits from accusations of doping because its not part of the 'culture' then you are just plain stupid, or desperate, or both. Read what I write: I am saying Brad and Lance are different people, from different countries and cultures so their motivations and personality are distinct i.e. their nurture throughout their life and upbringing are different so they cannot just simplistically be lumped together as guilty of the same crimes, an over-riding feature of some people's conviction that Wiggins dopes.

It was not 'he's a Brit, Brit's don't dope' argument, no matter how much you want it to be. If you are going to say to me a Texan and a Londoner share the same culture then you lack a fundamental understanding of the word.

No surprise that the most recent person to quote this to use it in this way is an Australian. I know you struggle with culture of any kind

No, it's not "he's a Brit, Brtis don't dope", it's "He's from a different culture so you cannot compare him to Lance Armstrong, who is a doper, and say they are similar, therefore he dopes". Uh. Remind me what the difference is again?

Your arrogance and obvious racism is telling.

The fact that you cannot see past your own myopic understanding of what you are actually saying, reinforced by the racism, of "we are better than you" is telling.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

i think your missing the point.........i have never said and would never say
'wiggins could not dope' but that no british athlete follows the line
spun by those in the clinic

'we're clean.......we're british........british athletes don't dope'.........that's the myth

Good grief man, open your eyes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs
The question that needs to be asked is not why wouldn't I take drugs, but why would I? I know exactly why I wouldn't dope. To start with, I come to professional road-racing from a different background to a lot of guys. There is a different culture in British cycling. Britain is a country where doping is not morally acceptable. I was born in Belgium but I grew up in the British environment, with the Olympic side of the sport as well as the Tour de France. I don't care what people say, the attitude to doping in the UK is different to in Italy or France maybe, where a rider like Richard Virenque can dope, be caught, be banned, come back and be a national hero.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Froome has the potential to blow this whole thing up. He is Michael Rasmussen 2.0. He's worse than Rasmussen because even with bags for of plasma Chicken was still a fairly poor ITT'er.

Froome just takes it to a new level of stupidity.

You seem to have been watching a different Froome to everyone else, what has he done which makes his level of performances so incredible?

 

[Benotti69]

Good grief man, open your eyes:

Virenque is not a national hero in France. He is not well liked by the general public. He got a job in cycling commentating like lots of dopers.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Virenque is not a national hero in France. He is not well liked by the general public. He got a job in cycling commentating like lots of dopers.

Yeah I highlighted too much - ebandit and Jimmy are saying it's a myth that Brits say "we're british, we're better than everyone else, therefore we don't dope" - but that is exactly what Brad is saying. And Jimmy, only he just can't see it.

Forgetting Millar, Simpson, et al.

 

[martinvickers]

He denied doping for years before they caught him with syringes and containers of doping material. He only confessed after being interrogated and in jail for 12 hours and finally being brought before a judge.

"Never go easy on him" is not "here mate, have a job".

At least not on the planet I live.

He also got to go to the Olympics as part of the team, and had glowing praise in the media from Cavendish.

Please show me even one instance where David "White knight" Millar ever has a hard time - in recent weeks he's had more opportunities for spruiking his and his sister's businesses and their alleged cleanliness than he's had hot breakfasts.

Just ONE instance where anyone said anything untoward about David Millar in the pommy press.

Just one.

Your wish is my command, Wiggo.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...ent-to-outlawing-of-BOA-drug-cheat-bylaw.html


Took me about 2 minutes to find. You know, sometimes you're the one full of s*** round here, Wiggo...just sayin'....

 

[Don Quixote]

Virenque is not a national hero in France. He is not well liked by the general public. He got a job in cycling commentating like lots of dopers.

Whether or not that's the case, it was used by Wiggins to highlight cultural differences wrt doping that most likely exist. (If you believe cultures exist)

Obviously, if he's wrong on that point (and you suggest he is) then he's used a **** poor example.

Not only is it a **** poor example, but it was breathtakingly arrogant to suggest it.