Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Captain Sensible]

l.

Now if Sutton goes, the story changes from more spin to actually backing up words with action.

Sutton should have gone I agree but I don't think he will because as far as I can remember he did not fail a drugs test in his time as a rider.
That will maybe save him the fact that most people myself included believe he doped doesn't matter .

 

[cineteq]

I prefer to credit Brailsford with some intelligence, thus I think he has been lying deliberately about Yates, Leinders, Barry et al to make his argument (that Sky is clean, that the sport is clean) look better.

My theory: this is a smoke screen to protect their *clean* results this year. But will they be exposed next year?

 

[Pentacycle]

My theory: this is a smoke screen to protect their *clean* results this year. But will they be exposed next year?

That's exactly the problem. Moral accusations and hard questions aren't really going to hurt them. Even if Sky's results next year will be much worse they'll tell us it's due to other teams catching up on them or something. The only way to expose Sky is a confession or a positive test(not really plausible ofc), but the way Leinders was put away doesn't make me think he's going to talk(as he's supposed to be the mastermind of the program).

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

VV, at some stage you have to work out that for many at the Clinic, the point isn't the sport, it's the conspiracy. For some it's not enough that powerful individuals are selfish, it has to be the illuminati.

Cycling was rotten. That is indisputable. Has been for decades and decades - since before WWII. Possibly WWI.

But it's not just that some don't believe in an improvement (even just a possible improvement) in cycling. Some really don't want to. Indeed, some even resent the possibility. And the clinic is a comfortable place for them.

You find it everywhere in life. The small group who believe in everything, who defend the obviously indefensible - Contador's clenbuterol, or Yates "i saw nothing" - though, by definition, they tend not to come near the clinic.

And you have the conspiricists - who believe nothing; who act as if cynicism is the same as wisdom; who, frankly, seem to hate the sport, but enjoy attacking it The clinic has it's share of those, all right.

And the bulk in the middle, who hope, and sometimes are disappointed; who question, but try not to be cynical. Who love the sport, and hate the dopers.

Most people call these people normal.

In the clinic, we're fanboys.

Pot say hi to the kettle.

Funny how you get upset about being called a fanboy but have no problem in labelling those who disagree with your view of cycling as being a 'conspiracy theorist'.

Give us an example of a 'conspiracy' according to the clinic that has subsequently been demonstrated not to be the case?

 

[andy1234]

VV, at some stage you have to work out that for many at the Clinic, the point isn't the sport, it's the conspiracy. For some it's not enough that powerful individuals are selfish, it has to be the illuminati.

Cycling was rotten. That is indisputable. Has been for decades and decades - since before WWII. Possibly WWI.

But it's not just that some don't believe in an improvement (even just a possible improvement) in cycling. Some really don't want to. Indeed, some even resent the possibility. And the clinic is a comfortable place for them.

You find it everywhere in life. The small group who believe in everything, who defend the obviously indefensible - Contador's clenbuterol, or Yates "i saw nothing" - though, by definition, they tend not to come near the clinic.

And you have the conspiricists - who believe nothing; who act as if cynicism is the same as wisdom; who, frankly, seem to hate the sport, but enjoy attacking it The clinic has it's share of those, all right.

And the bulk in the middle, who hope, and sometimes are disappointed; who question, but try not to be cynical. Who love the sport, and hate the dopers.

Most people call these people normal.

In the clinic, we're fanboys.

Excellent post.
Angry and cynical is simply a natural state for some people.
Its a good thing for them, that pro cycling and the clinic exists.

 

[Lanark]

Are they having a laugh? What kind of fools do they think we are?

Team Principal Dave Brailsford said:

“Sean joined us in our first year and has been with us for three tough but rewarding seasons.

“After a long career in professional cycling, he has told us that he wants to move on, for purely personal reasons.

“Sean has been a great support to the riders on the road and a valuable colleague to us all. We wish him the best for the next step in his life.”

After Team Sky reaffirmed its position on anti-doping, the management team started a series of individual interviews with riders, management and support staff.

Sean has been interviewed and there were no admissions or disclosures that would have required him to leave the team.

 

[Benotti69]

Are they having a laugh? What kind of fools do they think we are?

Team Principal Dave Brailsford said:

“Sean joined us in our first year and has been with us for three tough but rewarding seasons.

“After a long career in professional cycling, he has told us that he wants to move on, for purely personal reasons.

“Sean has been a great support to the riders on the road and a valuable colleague to us all. We wish him the best for the next step in his life.”

After Team Sky reaffirmed its position on anti-doping, the management team started a series of individual interviews with riders, management and support staff.

Sean has been interviewed and there were no admissions or disclosures that would have required him to leave the team.

When you start lying it is hard to stop.

http://www.chasingwheels.com/doping/team-sky-zero-tolerance-policy-or-how-not-to-address-reality

This pretty much takes their statements apart.

Sky are idiots to believe fans are stupid.

 

[Mellow Velo]

That dog don't hunt, just leaves a large, smelly turd in the Sky bus.
Worst possible outcome.

 

[Don Quixote]

"Sean Yates parts company with Team Sky as Dave Brailsford's doping cull continues
Sean Yates, one of the men who masterminded Bradley Wiggins’ Tour de France victory in July, has left Team Sky after admitting an involvement in doping."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Dave-Brailsfords-doping-cull-continues.html

Ouch.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-policy-ignores-valuable-history-lesson.html

 

[Zultronova]

Sky are cleaning the skeleton's out of the closet. Who will be next.....

 

[ToreBear]

Sky's New policy

As far as I understand Skys policy.

1) They started with the policy of not hiring people with doping convictions.
2) No non UK cycling docs.

They have stuck to number 1 but not number 2.

I can't see that they have violated rule 1 up to this point.
note: Yates had no prior doping conviction.

They have now tightened number 1. It is now more like:
1.1) Don't have any doping in your past even though you got away with it at the time.


On rule number 2 I have no idea what their current policy is.

It would be interesting to know the reasoning for breaking with their policy back in 2010/2011. It might be as their press releases at the time states, but I would like to know more about their thinking at that time. The process and reasoning behind hiring Leinders is in my mind still to be sufficiently clarified.

 

[Der Effe]

Sky are cleaning the skeleton's out of the closet. Who will be next.....

Froome? Wiggins? Rogers? Porte?

 

[Ferminal]

Pot say hi to the kettle.

Funny how you get upset about being called a fanboy but have no problem in labelling those who disagree with your view of cycling as being a 'conspiracy theorist'.

Give us an example of a 'conspiracy' according to the clinic that has subsequently been demonstrated not to be the case?

Where is the conspiracy in cyclists and cycling teams running doping programs? It's a common occurrence.

 

[maltiv]

Are they having a laugh? What kind of fools do they think we are?

Team Principal Dave Brailsford said:

“Sean joined us in our first year and has been with us for three tough but rewarding seasons.

“After a long career in professional cycling, he has told us that he wants to move on, for purely personal reasons.

“Sean has been a great support to the riders on the road and a valuable colleague to us all. We wish him the best for the next step in his life.”

After Team Sky reaffirmed its position on anti-doping, the management team started a series of individual interviews with riders, management and support staff.

Sean has been interviewed and there were no admissions or disclosures that would have required him to leave the team.

That has nothing to do with Sky, but Sean Yates. Obviously we all understand why he's leaving, but he doesn't want to come out. Sky can't force him to do so either. So Sean Yates basically just said "Ok, I'm leaving" and Sky+everyone else understand why, but if he doesn't want to come out with it, well then that's up to him.

 

[Benotti69]

Where is the conspiracy in cyclists and cycling teams running doping programs? It's a common occurrence.

Only the Sky fans cant see it!

 

[Ferminal]

That has nothing to do with Sky, but Sean Yates. Obviously we all understand why he's leaving, but he doesn't want to come out. Sky can't force him to do so either. So Sean Yates basically just said "Ok, I'm leaving" and Sky+everyone else understand why, but if he doesn't want to come out with it, well then that's up to him.

For him it's better, he can have a year off for "personal reasons" and come back to the sport in another team. The way Brailsford is doing it is probably the worst possible path for their future job prospects.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Nothing to do with sky ?

That has nothing to do with Sky, but Sean Yates. Obviously we all understand why he's leaving, but he doesn't want to come out. Sky can't force him to do so either. So Sean Yates basically just said "Ok, I'm leaving" and Sky+everyone else understand why, but if he doesn't want to come out with it, well then that's up to him.

What do you mean nothing to do with Sky - they have put it out as a counter to the Daily Telegraph story. It has probably been generated by phone calls since the DT story came out at 11pm last night.

This is Sky taking us all for a bunch of idiots. It is probably the second ranking PR thing that has angered me in the whole debacle, the first being "Brailsford was shocked". If they wanted to let him go and knew he was guilty but he did not want to confess, then let him leave without any of the BS. But this is, given the current situation, getting out the pot of white paint, laying down the red carpet and giving him a ticker tape parade out of the building.

We are expected to lap it up and now it is safe to "believe" because anyone "bad" has gone, we can all hold hands and chant "Sky is clean, Sky is great"?

 

[cineteq]

That has nothing to do with Sky, but Sean Yates. Obviously we all understand why he's leaving, but he doesn't want to come out. Sky can't force him to do so either. So Sean Yates basically just said "Ok, I'm leaving" and Sky+everyone else understand why, but if he doesn't want to come out with it, well then that's up to him.

It's really amusing to hear the fanboy comments and interpretations on this matter.

 

[orbeas]

Sky

Sky are cleaning the skeleton's out of the closet. Who will be next.....

long list here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Dave-Brailsfords-doping-cull-continues.html

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hey, believing from here on in might be easier, but each one they let go adds fuel to the fire of the argument that you can't believe what came before.

They came into the sport making promises they couldn't keep. Also, to drum up interest, their mouths wrote cheques their asses couldn't cash. They announced their super-clean-mega-friends team with great fanfare, and dropped that aspect with a whimper a year later. To the general public who don't follow the sport as closely as people here, they never heard it being dropped. They're now doing a PR damage limitation exercise (and are being assisted well by various media sources like the BBC and the Telegraph) of showcasing their hardline anti-doping policy... that they violated in the first place by hiring these guys.

Poor, beleaguered Dave Brailsford, having been lied to by all these people.

If Rogers pulls on a Sky jersey after New Year, we know that this is nothing but a farce. It's only when he goes that I'll believe this is anything other than a damage limitation exercise. They need to hit the magic number of people kicked out to ensure people believe they're hard on doping, without kicking out so many as to drag their achievements to date into the 'suspect' file. It's trial and error.

 

[orbeas]

Sky

be interesting to see how many stay on in British Cycling jobs ???

 

[ToreBear]

What do you mean nothing to do with Sky - they have put it out as a counter to the Daily Telegraph story. It has probably been generated by phone calls since the DT story came out at 11pm last night.

This is Sky taking us all for a bunch of idiots. It is probably the second ranking PR thing that has angered me in the whole debacle, the first being "Brailsford was shocked". If they wanted to let him go and knew he was guilty but he did not want to confess, then let him leave without any of the BS. But this is, given the current situation, getting out the pot of white paint, laying down the red carpet and giving him a ticker tape parade out of the building.

We are expected to lap it up and now it is safe to "believe" because anyone "bad" has gone, we can all hold hands and chant "Sky is clean, Sky is great"?

If you want you can all hold hands and chant "Sky is doping, Sky is Dirty"!

Does the same thing, only the words are different. Have fun!

 

[MonzaImola]

 

[the sceptic]

If Rogers admits that he went to Ferrari for more than training advice its gonna be harder to explain how he was so good this year. So Rogers will keep his mouth shut and sky will keep him.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

long list here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Dave-Brailsfords-doping-cull-continues.html

Although Rogers is omitted from that article.