Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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RownhamHill

Jul 1, 2011
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Spencer the Half Wit said:
Brailsford also said in the 5live interview(?) that Sky wouldn't actally be doing any investigations. So if Rogers, for example, said he hasn't doped and all he got from Ferrari was a really good recipe for a risotto then presumably he'd be allowed to sign.
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I didn't know he said that, but I think it's fair enough really - if you ask an employee to sign a legally binding document about something, and they sign it, then what else are you supposed to do?

I mean, in the case of Rogers, really what is a Sky investigation going to look like? It's fairly established that he was at a training camp with Ferrari, it's just the question of whether he was doping that is unclear. Obviously they can ask Rogers if he did or not, but if he says no, it's not like they can subpoena any other witnesses, and question them under the threat of perjury. And in any case what witnesses would actually know any more detail than Leipheimer has already given - probably Ferrari, maybe some of the team management? Since anyone who knows anything specific about him doping is by extension complicit, and therefore shares some guilt, how exactly are Sky going to get them to admit to that guilt?

I suppose they could get some colleagues from the news operation to hack their phones, but not sure that worked out that well last time round!
 
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RownhamHill

Jul 1, 2011
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ebandit said:
the only reason?

not.........that team sky wished to work as their stated policy
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Yes. The only reason to put this policy and process in the public domain is for PR purposes.

There may be a multitude of very good legal and ethical reasons for going through with this process, but all of these reasons still stand if the team did this privately. If they'd done exactly the same thing behind closed doors, and just quietly announced on an obscure page of their website that Yates, Julich and De Jongh had left the team by mutual consent they would still be fulfilling all the good reasons you can think of for doing this.

But by doing it all publicly they decided to try and derive some PR benefit from it as well - even if all they hoped to do was limit any future negative PR.
 
V

Von Mises

Aug 5, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
I think 'coward' is a bit unfair though for a rider in a position like that. What does a rider like Wiggins stand to gain from shouting down Astana at that point? He's a comparative no-name, at least in road cycling, and he's on a team which are in their first year as a pro team, trying to hold on to an unexpected good GC place. Against him he has the best rider on the planet (who's probably juiced), and the most famous rider on the planet (who's probably juiced), both on the strongest and most powerful team to take on the Tour in years (probably even stronger than 2012 Sky). He's watching what's happening within that very team as a guy is being carefully ostracized and character assassinated in the press for having the temerity to ride the Tour de France to try to win, not even attacking Armstrong himself per se. Wiggins may well have suspected Armstrong was pilled up, but it is most clearly in his own interests to keep his mouth shut, at least while Lance is active; Lance's media presence at that point is far too powerful. And of course, if he does call Lance out, he will be forever answering questions about Lance from there to eternity rather than being allowed to concentrate on his own race.

A guy like David Moncoutié has the reputation for racing clean throughout a career spanning more than a decade. His reputation was long established by that point, but he wasn't tearing down Astana, or calling out Valverde and Mosquera at the Vuelta. Why? Because David Moncoutié isn't a crusader or a martyr; he's simply a cyclist who most people are happy to believe was clean.

I don't think Moncoutié is a coward for not calling people out. After all, if he sat with the rest of the Cofidis team 10 years ago and endured constant mockery about not joining in, as has been attested by Gaumont and Millar, then fair play to the guy. But similarly, Wiggins isn't a coward for not calling Armstrong out in 2009 - it simply would have been a poor move for him at the time.

I think Wiggins has said and done plenty of things that are worth criticism, but it would take a man more heroic and especially more foolish than most to have called out Astana at the 2009 Tour.
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+ 1 very good post

I do not want to comment individual cases because we just do not know enough about their personal motivation and circumstances, but world is not binary: black and white, coward and non-coward. There are many reasons why people who are clean may not want to speak: maybe they dont know enough, they may know only half-truths, they are not able to separate truth from rumor, and even if you know smth about your teammate for example, then yes, he is cheater, but at the same time still your teammate, maybe even friend with houm you have laughed, dined and raced together and so on and so on.
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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Wallace and Gromit said:
I'm sure you know better than News International's lawyers!

This is all about damage limitation in specific circumstances in the future, not looking good now.
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Didn't realise NI's lawyers were involved in the PR for Team Sky.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
Didn't realise NI's lawyers were involved in the PR for Team Sky.
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murdoch's got his hands on everything and his young sino dowager bride

you need to realise Dear Wiggo.

And he aint shaving off his muttonchops for any Dear John letter
 
postmanhat

postmanhat

Oct 21, 2012
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MartinGT said:
The same coporation that thought it was Ok to phone hack etc and whom are getting **** f@cked in the Leveson enquiry?

Come on FFS take off the blinkers man.

Sky are saying they have zero doping policy and their staff will sign this no doping sheet, how they are a clean team etc.

A clean team that is about as transparent as a concrete wall.

Why were Sky quick to say Froome & Porte had signed? They got them in ASAP, was that to say

"Look everyone, look, see Froome isnt a doper, he is just good at reacting to marginal gains"

Come on, the less they make public the less transparent they are and the more fingers are pointed at them.

Surly all these should have been signed by now? If they are why nothing coming out of such a failed PR machine?
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Rupert is rumoured to be jetting in soon to clear this mess up.

Furious apparently, that two of his riders signing a form didn't make front page news
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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MatParker117 said:
News Corp is a stakeholder in the team along with BskyB and Sky Italia so it would not surprise me if Sky made of use of there staff from time to time.
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So lawyers do PR now? Not enough lawyery type things to do that they have to cut out Ian McClure from making a buck?

How despicable.
 
Tinman

Tinman

Aug 27, 2012
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Mick's time's up...

Tyler in an interview with Dutch newspaper Volkskrant yesterday (needs subscription).

@TourDeJose: Hamilton: "Don't call me a liar. The people who do all have something to hide: Riis, Rogers, McQuaid, Verbruggen, Ekimov. The list is long."
 
thehog

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
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Tinman said:
Mick's time's up...

Tyler in an interview with Dutch newspaper Volkskrant yesterday (needs subscription).

@TourDeJose: Hamilton: "Don't call me a liar. The people who do all have something to hide: Riis, Rogers, McQuaid, Verbruggen, Ekimov. The list is long."
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Mick Rogers has done well. He's hanging on by the skim of his teeth.

That Sky/Ferrari connection not looking so strange now...
 
Tinman

Tinman

Aug 27, 2012
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thehog said:
That Sky/Ferrari connection not looking so strange now...
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Funny you say that. I did post this in the Sky thread... Fanboys should be waking up any minute now.
 
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bobbins

Jun 16, 2009
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Martin Vinnicombe has spoken to the Aus media. From what I understand he has stories that could sink BC out of sight. Landis scale stories. Weather he'll share them all is a different matter but he seems like another with nothing to lose.
 
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andy1234

Apr 19, 2010
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bobbins said:
Martin Vinnicombe has spoken to the Aus media. From what I understand he has stories that could sink BC out of sight. Landis scale stories. Weather he'll share them all is a different matter but he seems like another with nothing to lose.
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What has Vinnicombe got to do with BC?
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
16,853
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bobbins said:
Martin Vinnicombe has spoken to the Aus media. From what I understand he has stories that could sink BC out of sight. Landis scale stories. Weather he'll share them all is a different matter but he seems like another with nothing to lose.
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he is pretty giving. Contact him through his website, and get a dialogue. Really nice guy, generous with his time.
 
B

bianchigirl

Mar 18, 2009
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ebandit said:
the only reason?

not.........that team sky wished to work as their stated policy
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If they wanted to do tat why sign leinders or Yates or any of the other dopers littering their books in the first place - you know, when they first announced zero tolerance?
 
D

Darryl Webster

Jun 12, 2010
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bobbins said:
Nothing to do with the Aussies working at BC or Sky, before then, late 80's.
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There are many people that know the truth regards BC/ Sky. Several X WCPP riders and an X coach have told me things that I initially felt lacked credibility..but when they come independently of each other that doubt diminishes.
Unfortunately, and rather like echoes of the long history of the Armstrong saga most work within cycling and have much to lose by going public with there knowledge and , without concrete evidence to support there claims many fear being dragged into courts.
My gut feeling is BC/ Sky will, eventually, crack under the strain of the whispering and truth will out like the proverbial dam bursting.
BC/ Sky have made more enemies than most people realise.
 
B

bobbins

Jun 16, 2009
1,429
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Darryl Webster said:
There are many people that know the truth regards BC/ Sky. Several X WCPP riders and an X coach have told me things that I initially felt lacked credibility..but when they come independently of each other that doubt diminishes.
Unfortunately, and rather like echoes of the long history of the Armstrong saga most work within cycling and have much to lose by going public with there knowledge and , without concrete evidence to support there claims many fear being dragged into courts.
My gut feeling is BC/ Sky will, eventually, crack under the strain of the whispering and truth will out like the proverbial dam bursting.
BC/ Sky have made more enemies than most people realise.
Click to expand...

How many of the team pursuit teams are no longer suckling at the BC teat? Dave B gets rid of coaches pretty fast, especially after success. See Matt Parker, marginalised then shoved away.
 
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