Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[oldcrank]

Sports scientist analysis of power data that suggests altering
gear/cadence for better results=sure sign of doping (at least
to lazy ****ers).

 

[Tinman]

Spinning FTW!

Brad slows his cadence in TTs to go faster for the same power, but continues to ride an aerobically challenging 100+ rpm in the hills.

Now JTL is changing down and spinning up on the uphills too.

Lance would be proud.

And Edgar rolling in his grave with laughter.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Spinning FTW!

Brad slows his cadence in TTs to go faster for the same power, but continues to ride an aerobically challenging 100+ rpm in the hills.

Now JTL is changing down and spinning up on the uphills too.

Lance would be proud.

Coaches? We don't need no stinking coaches.

Meanwhile, you continue to spin on the spot.
Another totally pointless post in a pretty pointless thread.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Be interesting to see what "theories" can be spun around this, as DB confirms Sky's GT team leaders:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-to-giro-froome-for-tour-de-france-says-brailsford

 

[JimmyFingers]

JTL hasn't turned a crank in anger yet on a pro-tour and he's already getting snide accusations flung his way. He is a good talent, as shown by success last season and getting the nod as team leader for the British WC team, but no doubt since he's British and rides for Sky the knives will be out in force. Quel surprise

 

[MartinGT]

JTL hasn't turned a crank in anger yet on a pro-tour and he's already getting snide accusations flung his way. He is a good talent, as shown by success last season and getting the nod as team leader for the British WC team, but no doubt since he's British and rides for Sky the knives will be out in force. Quel surprise

Its hardly suprising with the way Sky conduct themselves.

I have seen JTL in a few races this season and IMO the kid is clean. I am looking forward to seeing him next season.

BUT

If his perfomances are Froome-esq on the steep climbs then I am outta here.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Its hardly suprising with the way Sky conduct themselves.

I have seen JTL in a few races this season and IMO the kid is clean. I am looking forward to seeing him next season.

BUT

If his perfomances are Froome-esq on the steep climbs then I am outta here.

He's a very tasty climber though, dances up the steep stuff a bit like Contador. Also he's tiny. Sky will deploy him as a puncheur in the hilly classics I think. Completely untested in a GT though so unlikely to feature in the Giro or Tour, more likely will support Uran who I expect to lead at the Vuelta.

 

[Galic Ho]

Some are banned and others aren't. Marta Bastianelli and Aurélien Duval have both sat out two years for taking appetite suppressants.

Must be idiots then. There are some great natural appetite suppressants. Water is one. Numerous healthy foods. They must have needed to shift some serious kilos.

 

[roundabout]

I thought Locke's improvement this year was because of lost weight.

When exactly in April did the training camp take place? He was rather mediocre between mid March and Alsace.

When did he crash?

 

[maltiv]

JTL hasn't turned a crank in anger yet on a pro-tour and he's already getting snide accusations flung his way. He is a good talent, as shown by success last season and getting the nod as team leader for the British WC team, but no doubt since he's British and rides for Sky the knives will be out in force. Quel surprise

No, anyone with such an enormous increase in performance over such a short period of time, particularly at that age, would be getting the same treatment.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No, anyone with such an enormous increase in performance over such a short period of time, particularly at that age, would be getting the same treatment.

He's had three years out: what are you basing this increase on?

 

[thehog]

No, anyone with such an enormous increase in performance over such a short period of time, particularly at that age, would be getting the same treatment.

When riders join Sky they have to pick a previous disease/injury for as a reason for poor form in their early career then they head to the training camp where they carefully select with Kerrison a scientific reason for their newly found abilities that will be displayed late in the year.

 

[ebandit]

bs

When riders join Sky they have to pick a previous disease/injury for as a reason for poor form in their early career then they head to the training camp where they carefully select with Kerrison a scientific reason for their newly found abilities that will be displayed late in the year.

bs more hoggie swill..............like froome being a zero in cycling

zero? but riding the tdf.......................................................

aye a big fat zero.........but good enough to be signed by sky

 

[thehog]

When riders join Sky they have to pick a previous disease/injury for as a reason for poor form in their early career then they head to the training camp where they carefully select with Kerrison a scientific reason for their newly found abilities that will be displayed late in the year.

Excellent post Hog. Often there is truth in irony.

 

[the sceptic]

When riders join Sky they have to pick a previous disease/injury for as a reason for poor form in their early career then they head to the training camp where they carefully select with Kerrison a scientific reason for their newly found abilities that will be displayed late in the year.

You didnt notice his massive talent when he won GP the rocheville?

 

[ebandit]

trust

Excellent post Hog. Often there is truth in irony.

never trust someone who congratulates themself.......................

like a hoggie wallowing in bs..................................happy!

 

[thehog]

You didnt notice his massive talent when he won GP the rocheville?

Talent is not what I noticed, no.

You might want to visit the JTL thread for what many observed that day.

He’ll fit right in at Sky.

Hope little Richie Porte doesn’t get upset at being bumped for Sky’s new science project.

 

[Mellow Velo]

When riders join Sky they have to pick a previous disease/injury for as a reason for poor form in their early career then they head to the training camp where they carefully select with Kerrison a scientific reason for their newly found abilities that will be displayed late in the year.

Excellent post Hog. Often there is truth in irony.

Good to see you have moved on, from joining dots, to irony as you standard of proof.
The only thing lower is your standard of excellence.

 

[thehog]

Good to see you have moved on, from joining dots, to irony as you standard of proof.
The only thing lower is your standard of excellence.

I though you didn't care for my twaddle?

Leave me alone. You've even followed me onto Velorooms.

Stop man. Its uncool. The Mods over there had to delete your posts. You know its the rules not to mention other forums over there.

You were attemping to smear my name.

Uncool dude.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

JTL hasn't turned a crank in anger yet on a pro-tour and he's already getting snide accusations flung his way. He is a good talent, as shown by success last season and getting the nod as team leader for the British WC team, but no doubt since he's British and rides for Sky the knives will be out in force. Quel surprise

He's had three years out: what are you basing this increase on?

The snide accusations began when he made mincemeat of a stronger field than he'd ever faced before, in February. They certainly weren't helped by Dan Martin's ambiguous tweet about a lack of testing at those races, as in 140 characters it was difficult to specify whether he meant that he or his team had not been tested, or that there had been no testing in general at those two races. Clean or otherwise, that put fuel to the fire of suspicion around JTL.

The guy has justifiable reasons for late blooming - his having mononucleosis or whatever it was that caused him to give up, university etc and having not been riding competitively for three years mean that his breaking through at 27 or 28 is not as surprising as somebody who has been riding on a pro team completely invisibly, like Froome.

Or rather, it is surprising, but can be much more easily explained away convincingly. People who tell you that they predicted Tiernan-Locke's dominance in February and early March are liars. They may have thought 'look out for this guy, he could break out' after his performance in the Tour of Britain with Rapha the previous year, but he didn't show that he had this in him until he was at Endura. You could have thought he'd show well, but I don't believe anyone who said they reasonably believed JTL would win the Tour Med and Haut-Var and podium Murcía in quick succession unless they were a blood relation. Believe that he could, sure. But that he would, no way.

I pointed out at the time that while there isn't enough on Tiernan-Locke to say that he was doping, it's rewriting history to say that it wasn't a big jump up in performance or that it wasn't surprising. I was asked, what more would he have needed to do bearing in mind at Rapha he was mostly racing .2 races. I said "actually win some of them". He went from being a good rider in .2 races (let's not pretend he was pack fodder, that's unfair), to a guy who wins .1 races against much stronger fields, and not through lucky breakaways like the ones that let guys like Gustavo César win World Tour events, but by being clearly the strongest rider.

Tiernan-Locke himself admitted that to the sceptical fans his rise would look pretty suspicious. Again, not suspicious enough to say there's definite doping involved, because the guy had his various reasons for coming to prominence at a later age than most. But still, enough for fans to have some doubts. I compared to a few guys who'd had a couple of spectacular months out of seemingly nowhere, to see how they'd fared. A guy like Pecharromán, for example, or Murilo Fischer, who back in 2005 had that stunning late season when he won a ton of Italian .1 and .HC one-day races and finished in the CQ top 10 of the year despite riding for a ProContinental team, and never came remotely close to that performance again. We won't know until a couple of years down the line.

Tiernan-Locke riding for Sky does not create the scepticism - his extremely strong breakout season does. He was being suspected long before he signed for Sky. But not that long before, because unless you followed the British domestic scene or could remember every prospect on the French scene half a decade ago, you'd probably never heard of him until last September at the earliest.

A lot of others may buy the transformation, but like I said about Froome's bilharzia, find the timing of it a bit convenient - after all, with the UCI openly stating that the catching-on of cycling in Britain is a good thing, all of a sudden these super-talents start appearing from out of nowhere! At this rate I won't be surprised if we'll see in a couple of years' time, a 30 year old who's never raced outside the UK will suddenly start destroying the Continental scene, and we'll be trying to work out whether to believe that being 5th in the Vuelta a Dorset showed that he had the potential to beat Peter Sagan and Moreno Moser.

Jonathan Tiernan-Locke is clearly a talented cyclist. His transformation is way more believable than Froome's. He's had far more chances to race the kind of events that suit him with Endura than he ever had with Rapha and before. But he is still a guy from a country that has very little in the way of a national scene, who had few results to speak of prior to 2012, who nevertheless exploded internationally in the course of less than a month, and whether clean or not, that Dan Martin's comment implied to many that there was no drug testing at his breakthrough events, and that as a rider on a Continental-level team he was not subject to the biological passport, it is not surprising at all that questions were raised.

Tiernan-Locke himself wasn't surprised that the questions were raised, so at least he's more self-aware than Wiggins.

 

[will10]

Libertine is as is often the case, absolutely spot on. Great post.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Libertine is as is often the case, absolutely spot on. Great post.

+1

there was much dicussion about JTL coming from nowhere to dominating - man that rings a bell - and JimmyFingers has forgotten the miracle already, but I certainly hadn't and I am glad LS was able to expand on the details so convincingly.

Not only did he dominate already, but he's going to take another jump in performance by increasing his cadence riding uphill. More marginal gains. Oh goodie.

I cannot wait until Sky do a wind-tunnel session and the photos proving it. There should be a 5% increase in TT speed after that.

 

[Cyivel]

Libertine is as is often the case, absolutely spot on. Great post.

Amen brother

 

[thehog]

The snide accusations began when he made mincemeat of a stronger field than he'd ever faced before, in February. They certainly weren't helped by Dan Martin's ambiguous tweet about a lack of testing at those races, as in 140 characters it was difficult to specify whether he meant that he or his team had not been tested, or that there had been no testing in general at those two races. Clean or otherwise, that put fuel to the fire of suspicion around JTL.

The guy has justifiable reasons for late blooming - his having mononucleosis or whatever it was that caused him to give up, university etc and having not been riding competitively for three years mean that his breaking through at 27 or 28 is not as surprising as somebody who has been riding on a pro team completely invisibly, like Froome.

Or rather, it is surprising, but can be much more easily explained away convincingly. People who tell you that they predicted Tiernan-Locke's dominance in February and early March are liars. They may have thought 'look out for this guy, he could break out' after his performance in the Tour of Britain with Rapha the previous year, but he didn't show that he had this in him until he was at Endura. You could have thought he'd show well, but I don't believe anyone who said they reasonably believed JTL would win the Tour Med and Haut-Var and podium Murcía in quick succession unless they were a blood relation. Believe that he could, sure. But that he would, no way.

I pointed out at the time that while there isn't enough on Tiernan-Locke to say that he was doping, it's rewriting history to say that it wasn't a big jump up in performance or that it wasn't surprising. I was asked, what more would he have needed to do bearing in mind at Rapha he was mostly racing .2 races. I said "actually win some of them". He went from being a good rider in .2 races (let's not pretend he was pack fodder, that's unfair), to a guy who wins .1 races against much stronger fields, and not through lucky breakaways like the ones that let guys like Gustavo César win World Tour events, but by being clearly the strongest rider.

Tiernan-Locke himself admitted that to the sceptical fans his rise would look pretty suspicious. Again, not suspicious enough to say there's definite doping involved, because the guy had his various reasons for coming to prominence at a later age than most. But still, enough for fans to have some doubts. I compared to a few guys who'd had a couple of spectacular months out of seemingly nowhere, to see how they'd fared. A guy like Pecharromán, for example, or Murilo Fischer, who back in 2005 had that stunning late season when he won a ton of Italian .1 and .HC one-day races and finished in the CQ top 10 of the year despite riding for a ProContinental team, and never came remotely close to that performance again. We won't know until a couple of years down the line.

Tiernan-Locke riding for Sky does not create the scepticism - his extremely strong breakout season does. He was being suspected long before he signed for Sky. But not that long before, because unless you followed the British domestic scene or could remember every prospect on the French scene half a decade ago, you'd probably never heard of him until last September at the earliest.

A lot of others may buy the transformation, but like I said about Froome's bilharzia, find the timing of it a bit convenient - after all, with the UCI openly stating that the catching-on of cycling in Britain is a good thing, all of a sudden these super-talents start appearing from out of nowhere! At this rate I won't be surprised if we'll see in a couple of years' time, a 30 year old who's never raced outside the UK will suddenly start destroying the Continental scene, and we'll be trying to work out whether to believe that being 5th in the Vuelta a Dorset showed that he had the potential to beat Peter Sagan and Moreno Moser.

Jonathan Tiernan-Locke is clearly a talented cyclist. His transformation is way more believable than Froome's. He's had far more chances to race the kind of events that suit him with Endura than he ever had with Rapha and before. But he is still a guy from a country that has very little in the way of a national scene, who had few results to speak of prior to 2012, who nevertheless exploded internationally in the course of less than a month, and whether clean or not, that Dan Martin's comment implied to many that there was no drug testing at his breakthrough events, and that as a rider on a Continental-level team he was not subject to the biological passport, it is not surprising at all that questions were raised.

Tiernan-Locke himself wasn't surprised that the questions were raised, so at least he's more self-aware than Wiggins.

Excellent post.

 

[blackcat]

Not only did he dominate already, but he's going to take another jump in performance by increasing his cadence riding uphill. More marginal gains. Oh goodie.

yeah, I see how Wigans fits