Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JimmyFingers]

Seems to me like a digression into the popularity of the sport in the UK. The discussion on doping have taken place countless times and will no doubt take place countless times more.

Well it comes across like a little point-and-laugh at the Brits and their rubbish cyclists, and cycling supporters

 

[Froome19]

Seems this thread has been rebranded the Sky depreciation thread..
Fine with me, though I remembers that a couple of months ago all the depreciation threads did get closed..

 

[thehog]

Seems this thread has been rebranded the Sky depreciation thread..
Fine with me, though I remembers that a couple of months ago all the depreciation threads did get closed..

Why the sad face Froome19?

All I ever hear is why these Sky threads should be closed down. Nothing new, old news, no proof, all based on lies.

Alas these threads have a life of their own.

Yates, Rogers, Julich, Tenerife, Leinders. There is just so much to talk about but many here appear like they want it shut down.

I think talking is healthy, is it not?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Why the sad face Froome19?

All I ever hear is why these Sky threads should be closed down. Nothing new, old news, no proof, all based on lies.

Alas these threads have a life of their own.

Yates, Rogers, Julich, Tenerife, Leinders. There is just so much to talk about but many here appear like they want it shut down.

I think talking is healthy, is it not?

Well you've certainly come up with nothing new, that's for sure.
Back with the same old, well worn dots.

I'm a bit disappointed that you haven't yet managed to weave Wiggins's month at Linda McCartney into the plot.

 

[thehog]

Wiggins/Froome -> Rogers/Yates/Julich(LANCE) -> Tenerife -> Extremem weight loss -> Absurd Tour performances - Doping/Ferrari.

Looking back at the dot connecting. Some see it as a "reach", a "stretch" with no proof.

But now. Rogers, Yates, Julich and Tenerife have been dropped!

I don't think Sky are reading the Clinic but its all very strange.

Doesn't prove my theory but something is up. Why drop them all? and Tenerife?

“I guess Lance [Armstrong] was the pioneer in training to race,” said Yates, who raced with Armstrong. “In a grand tour environment, you can train to be good. It’s not the same as the classics, where you have to be in the mix, you have to know the cobbles. In an event like this [Dauphiné] or a grand tour, if you’re going for GC, it’s all about being able to climb, being rested, being trained up and ready. That environment is perfect for that.”

 

[Mellow Velo]

Sky have dropped Tenerife?
News to me.
Link please, since I've missed it.

I just thought it was the usual Mallorca pre Christmas, Tenerife in the new year.

 

[thehog]

Looking back at the dot connecting. Some see it as a "reach", a "stretch" with no proof.

But now. Rogers, Yates, Julich and Tenerife have been dropped!

I don't think Sky are reading the Clinic but its all very strange.

Doesn't prove my theory but something is up. Why drop them all? and Tenerife?

Should be an interesting 2013. Also be good to know of Katusha's exit was due to Ekimov. Might explain Sky removing Yates & co.

Right now we need more information from Sky & the UCI.

I assume its coming.

More questions than answers at the moment.

 

[MatParker117]

Sky have dropped Tenerife?
News to me.
Link please, since I've missed it.

I just thought it was the usual Mallorca pre Christmas, Tenerife in the new year.

There looking to establish a more central European training base. Girona and Nice have been mentioned.

 

[Mellow Velo]

There looking to establish a more central European training base. Girona and Nice have been mentioned.

Ah, OK, thanks.
I'd seen that mentioned, but hadn't realised that they were doing so at the expense of Tenerife's altitude training.

 

[The Hitch]

Well it comes across like a little point-and-laugh at the Brits and their rubbish cyclists, and cycling supporters

What? we were criticising the bbc for not showing the races how do you interpret that as publishing the fans?

 

[thehog]

There looking to establish a more central European training base. Girona and Nice have been mentioned.

Thanks for the update Matt. Good to keep everyone up to date with the changes.

 

[JimmyFingers]

What? we were criticising the bbc for not showing the races how do you interpret that as publishing the fans?

The inference was both coverage and reception, and came after a discussion deriding British talent beyond Wiggins and Froome. I joined the dots.

Nothing to do with doping, anyway. And only anecdotally to do with Sky

 

[JimmyFingers]

Thanks for the update Matt. Good to keep everyone up to date with the changes.

Thought you would have known. You're the one with hardwire into Ferrari's activities. Disappointed

 

[maxmartin]

Richie Porte is awfully quiet, anybody hear anything about him recently?

 

[thehog]

Thought you would have known. You're the one with hardwire into Ferrari's activities. Disappointed

I'm glad Sly have dropped Tenerife. It was creating too much speculation. It was the right move for Sky to make.

I'm glad Sky were listening to myself.

I'm severely criticised at times but it appears that if anything I've helped Sky make the right move towards zero tolerance.

Cycling is better for my actions.

I don't wish to condemn just promote the anti-doping movement.

I say well done to Sky. Long way to go but they've made some positive moves.

 

[ferryman]

I'm glad Sly have dropped Tenerife. It was creating too much speculation. It was the right move for Sky to make.

I'm glad Sky were listening to myself.

I'm severely criticised at times but it appears that if anything I've helped Sky make the right move towards zero tolerance.

Cycling is better for my actions.

I don't wish to condemn just promote the anti-doping movement.

I say well done to Sky. Long way to go but they've made some positive moves.

Mr Hog, you are losing it a bit. Again, you are hard work. Nobody on here appreciates your self back slapping. And guess what, there are complaints about it again

C'mon man, chill it down, there are bad mods out there waiting with red cards. It's very close bud.

 

[thehog]

Mr Hog, you are losing it a bit. Again, you are hard work. Nobody on here appreciates your self back slapping. And guess what, there are complaints about it again

C'mon man, chill it down, there are bad mods out there waiting with red cards. It's very close bud.

Fair call. I've deleted the post.

Getting back on track. Its interesting its been dropped. I'm not sure why. But its makes sense. Doping or no doping the place just causes too much speculation and I'm glad Sky have stopped using it.

Not sure it will make a lot of difference to their season and they're are plenty of high altitude places to train but Tenerife for better or worse just comes with too much history.

It was announced by Sky 2 weeks ago so there were several links on the subject. I can post if people need to see.

 

[MatParker117]

Fair call. I've deleted the post.

Getting back on track. Its interesting its been dropped. I'm not sure why. But its makes sense. Doping or no doping the place just causes too much speculation and I'm glad Sky have stopped using it.

Not sure it will make a lot of difference to their season and they're are plenty of high altitude places to train but Tenerife for better or worse just comes with too much history.

It was announced by Sky 2 weeks ago so there were several links on the subject. I can post if people need to see.

BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20535637

Team Sky boss Dave Brailsford is looking for a permanent European training base for his Tour de France-winning squad.
The British-registered team are officially based at Manchester's National Cycling Centre, home to the GB Olympic and Paralympic set-ups.
Team Sky's coaches, riders and support staff are spread across Europe, meeting only for training camps and races.
"Our next step at Team Sky is to find a proper training base," said Brailsford.
"I'm a big fan of centralised [training] models. It's the contact time that is invaluable, and those informal decisions in cafes that become great ideas.
"What you want to create is an environment where there is a quest for continuous improvement: a culture of excellence where everyone knows that in 12 months' time 'I've got to be better than I am now'. That's easier to create under one roof."
The centralised model has worked well for British Olympic and Paralympic track cycling, while there are hopes that the benefits of training together in Manchester will soon be reaped by the BMX squad.
Road cycling, however, is clearly a different proposition, and Brailsford acknowledges the "architecture" of his new base will have to reflect that.
There will be less need for actual bricks and mortar than in Manchester, and the template will be similar to the academy British Cycling once ran from Quarrata in Tuscany. That was a fairly Spartan affair - Bradley Wiggins and co will expect a little more comfort - but the base does not have to be a grand complex.
What Team Sky really need, the 48-year-old coach believes, is access to a variety of terrain, good roads, nice weather and a well-connected airport.
Team Sky, along with many other professional teams, currently use the Spanish islands of Mallorca and Tenerife for training camps, but Brailsford wants something more central and tangible.
A possible option would be to base the team around a well-situated city like Girona, in Spain, where many overseas cyclists spend their seasons there already.
The French city of Nice is perhaps a more likely choice for a Team Sky base, as it is close to Monaco, already home to the team's probable next Tour de France leader Chris Froome and many other top cyclists.

 

[thehog]

BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20535637

Thanks Matt.

I'd say stay in Spain. Better climate.

 

[BroDeal]

Mr Hog, you are losing it a bit. Again, you are hard work. Nobody on here appreciates your self back slapping. And guess what, there are complaints about it again

C'mon man, chill it down, there are bad mods out there waiting with red cards. It's very close bud.

Did you ever consider that people who would complain about this sort of thing need to hike their panties up and HTFU or simply not read the thread. The Hog has been posting like this since the beginning of the forum. Just because a bunch of British crybabies are looking for any excuse they can find to complain does not mean you have to do anything. Maybe you should consider banning people who make bogus complaints.

 

[MatParker117]

Thanks Matt.

I'd say stay in Spain. Better climate.

I'd go with Nice personally. Several team members either live in the city or nearby, great climate, two airports, hilly terrain and boatload of climbs nearby.

 

[thehog]

I'd go with Nice personally. Several team members either live in the city or nearby, great climate, two airports, hilly terrain and boatload of climbs nearby.

Close to the borders which is key. You can slip between two countries. Too many tourists though but the hills and surrounds are picturesque. It wouldn't be a bad selection though.

 

[thehog]

Did you ever consider that people who would complain about this sort of thing need to hike their panties up and HTFU or simply not read the thread. The Hog has been posting like this since the beginning of the forum. Just because a bunch of British crybabies are looking for any excuse they can find to complain does not mean you have to do anything. Maybe you should consider banning people who make bogus complaints.

In a way the thread has been paralysed. When David Walsh tweeted his article with Brailsford it was incited with glee that its "quiet" in the Sky thread because Walsh was going against script and "joined the enemy". Many were merely waiting to read the article before commenting. But it was fun to beat up a storm none the less by the Sky supporters. When the Walsh article appeared it raised a lot more questions than it answered but each time a response was replied to it was reported as a complaint. No link. No proof. Can't say that. Not until there's a psoitive. We don't know that.

It's sad. The thread is suffering because of it. The forum is suffering. There's no new threads. A lack of contribution and one way traffic.

As an example. The dropping of Tenerife is a significant event in Sky's preparation. But it cannot be discussed. I bring it up. It's well known and its in the media for several days - where's the link, shows us the link, you're lying = debate ended. Conversation finished. Nothing.

It's painful and it means no one can join in or add value to what's being discussed.

Full marks to Matt Parker whom may not agree with everything that is said but at least provides a counter view.

Yates, Rogers and Ternerife is a major change in the Sky preparation for 2013. But there's bearly a post on any of it. I find it sad.

It would be like Bruyneel, Hincapie and Girona all being dropped in one season in the Lance years (no doping link intended) but here it's not even allowed to be discussed.

It's sad loss to the forum. I think there's excellent merit in the discussion. Less point proving and more discussion.

 

[martinvickers]

It's sad loss to the forum. I think there's excellent merit in the discussion. Less point proving and more discussion.

Perhaps, Hog, if both sides did not so quickly degenerate into sneers and smears, people might be less tribal.

Some of the pretty contemptuous stuff posted here has one intention and one intention only - to de-legitimise people who don't agree with the poster ("british crybabies", "fanboys", disgruntled aussies, etc).

It's perhaps no surprise that only those who can give as good as they get stay the course - and the thread degenerates into a broadly nationalistic, certainly tribal battle of mutual contempt.

It leaves no room for analysis, or thinking, or evidence, or "trust but verify".

No - you are expected to pick a 'side' early on;if you refuse to, one of the 'elders; will do it for you; and thereafter you're only role is to twist whatever can be found to suit 'your' side; all motives are assumed malign and rationality is a dirty word.

In so far as the 'sky-hater' tribe find this chilling, I can't but feel they have really only themselves to blame. The same for 'Sky-philic' tribe, frankly, but they seem to be abusive just a little less.

As for sides, this particular thread is one of three, and the currently most active of those three, that absolutely dominates the clinic; the other two being LA, of course. you only seem to be allowed two sides at the moment - living in the north of Ireland as I currently do, that is depressingly familiar.

I can't agree that no-one get's their say on the various bits of Sky - there's 9000 posts and a million views says otherwise.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I find the Hog's self appreciation posts rather amusing. They actually read as if he is taking the wee-wee out of himself.

Girona it will be, then. Bradley already lives there, part time. He's just down the road from Cuddles, so maybe he can join them for the odd, marginal gain.
Still, if it's a clean up, PR exercise, Girona will cause just as much speculation as Tenerife.
Looks of dots can be joined in that Spanish city.