Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JimmyFingers]

Well Andy is an excellent judge of character

 

[Parrulo]

how andy looked like when he said "their training"

 

[JimmyFingers]

Surely Micheal Rodgers speaks of his training to BR and Saxo? So why can Sky peak for long periods and MR is nowhere near? I think come this summer Saxo will be on a par with Sky because of MR inside view of Sky's methods. But I'm still lost as to how CF and Bradley(last year) sustain high levels of peak form. This line of questioning is what should be directed at them. No team can do this apart from them. Secrets don't stay as that training methods don't advance that much so quickly and if MR knew about new methods or gains wouldn't he be talking to BR now?! Maybe Saxo are saving it for the Tour but all the eggs in one basket is tricky as Andy knows. I really would love an explanation from Sky as to how they peak for much longer periods. What gives?

Assuming for a moment they are clean, do you really expect them to come out and explain it? Do F1 teams give other teams and public detailed technological data to explain why their car is so much faster? If you have an edge the longer you keep it secret the longer you keep the edge.

If they're doping then again they're not going to explain it. Certainly not tell Andly Schleck about it, training or doping.

 

[Bexon30]

I'm more and more convinced that their peers don't buy Sky.

I agree I noted many riders chatting and shaking heads in disbelief on the stage recently where Froome soloed from ~5km and Porte followed later. It's crazy the turns Vasil pulls and we haven't seen them at full gas yet. I expect something bordering on ridiculous on the Alpdhuez stage. I really hope I'm wrong though.

It appears to me that RS are riding moderately hard but the Sky guys fly past and Froome on the right doesn't even acknowledge them.

 

[Miburo]

Nice video - thanks.
Kinda hope Andy improves 10 fold now.

That's what many of us are hoping for

And knowing how 'popular' andy is that says pretty much everything

 

[Bexon30]

Assuming for a moment they are clean, do you really expect them to come out and explain it? Do F1 teams give other teams and public detailed technological data to explain why their car is so much faster? If you have an edge the longer you keep it secret the longer you keep the edge.

If they're doping then again they're not going to explain it. Certainly not tell Andly Schleck about it, training or doping.

No they wouldn't talk that's obvious. But I don't think Micheal Rodgers trained with his eyes and ears shut either. What happens when you leave a place of work in my experience is you take skills and learnt knowledge with you yet Sky still outperform. I really don't get how ex Sky riders drop in level of performance. With all the insight they have.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I agree I noted many riders chatting and shaking heads in disbelief on the stage recently where Froome soloed from ~5km and Porte followed later. It's crazy the turns Vasil pulls and we haven't seen them at full gas yet. I expect something bordering on ridiculous on the Alpdhuez stage. I really hope I'm wrong though.

It appears to me that RS are riding moderately hard but the Sky guys fly past and Froome on the right doesn't even acknowledge them.

Motorpaced hillclimb, while Radioshack looked like were out for a jolly on their new bikes, checking the fit. But I guess you can spin it the why you want

 

[JimmyFingers]

No they wouldn't talk that's obvious. But I don't think Micheal Rodgers trained with his eyes and ears shut either. What happens when you leave a place of work in my experience is you take skills and learnt knowledge with you yet Sky still outperform. I really don't get how ex Sky riders drop in level of performance. With all the insight they have.

A little simplistic: there is a holistic and very scientific approach to training at Sky and the riders do what they're told. It's like expecting a footsoldier to disclose invasion plans.

 

[Carols]

Assuming for a moment they are clean, do you really expect them to come out and explain it?

What I would like to see is Sky pass all their blood profiles and power files, both training and racing to Ashenden as an independent analyst.

He wouldn't need to release any #s, just say a report that 'what you are seeing is believable'. Otherwise I find it difficult to believe they are clean.

But I guess if they are paying him, he'd have to be very discreet in what he said if he couldn't make the 'believable' statement.

 

[JimmyFingers]

how andy looked like when he said "their training"

Distinct from Andy's training of course

 

[JimmyFingers]

What I would like to see is Sky pass all their blood profiles and power files, both training and racing to Ashenden as an independent analyst.

He wouldn't need to release any #s, just say a report that 'what you are seeing is believable'. Otherwise I find it difficult to believe they are clean.

But I guess if they are paying him, he'd have to be very discreet in what he said if he couldn't make the 'believable' statement.

Just Sky, or all teams?

 

[del1962]

No they wouldn't talk that's obvious. But I don't think Micheal Rodgers trained with his eyes and ears shut either. What happens when you leave a place of work in my experience is you take skills and learnt knowledge with you yet Sky still outperform. I really don't get how ex Sky riders drop in level of performance. With all the insight they have.

Hasn't Rodgers been ill over the winter?

Edit : this is what he said

After a minor injury during the winter, I’m a little behind condition wise compared to previous years.

 

[Parrulo]

Distinct from Andy's training of course

indeed, it seems to be more effective

 

[Carols]

Just Sky, or all teams?

Sky is the team with 'unbelievable' long peaks and performances, so start with them. They are the ones that Proclaim their cleanliness, zero tolerance to the world while showing dominating performances from multiple riders; leaders and doms.

In other words, not just PR from Sky; some proof.

 

[Bexon30]

Hasn't Rodgers been ill over the winter?

Edit : this is what he said

That might be so but all the scientific and marginal gain training he received would've been passed on to his new team mates and DS, trainers and like. Yet Saxo Tinkoff appear to my eyes to be behind the curve of Sky. And I would imagine to most others as well. How is it possible to peak all year March through August?

 

[Miburo]

Sky is the team with 'unbelievable' long peaks and performances, so start with them. They are the ones that Proclaim their cleanliness, zero tolerance to the world while showing dominating performances from multiple riders; leaders and doms.

In other words, not just PR from Sky; some proof.

You can't forget Leinders, Rogers his downfall this year.

And of course the miracles Froome and Porte.

 

[del1962]

Sky is the team with 'unbelievable' long peaks and performances, so start with them. They are the ones that Proclaim their cleanliness, zero tolerance to the world while showing dominating performances from multiple riders; leaders and doms.

In other words, not just PR from Sky; some proof.

I would say Movistar seem to have uppped their game in stage races and are competing with Sky now, the Dowsett effect?

In the classics it is Canc/Sagan dominating, perhaps Scleck could learn from Fabs training.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sky is the team with 'unbelievable' long peaks and performances, so start with them. They are the ones that Proclaim their cleanliness, zero tolerance to the world while showing dominating performances from multiple riders; leaders and doms.

In other words, not just PR from Sky; some proof.

There would be plenty would say it was more PR from Sky, plenty that would say Ashenden has been bought, like many say now about David Walsh.

And more so I see no reason why Sky should be the only team that should do it. That smacks of bias. Again we need testing we can believe in for all riders, independent of the UCI, not asking one team out of many to do a publicity stunt to satisfy their internet accusers.

Who wouldn't be satisfied anyway.

 

[JimmyFingers]

That might be so but all the scientific and marginal gain training he received would've been passed on to his new team mates and DS, trainers and like. Yet Saxo Tinkoff appear to my eyes to be behind the curve of Sky. And I would imagine to most others as well. How is it possible to peak all year March through August?

He's a footsoldier, what makes you think he has the knowledge or ability to give up Sky's training plan to saxo, and that they would base their training plan around what he tells them? He's not a coach, he's a rider, it's fanciful to suggest he would be able to deliver all of that.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I would say Movistar seem to have uppped their game in stage races and are competing with Sky now, the Dowsett effect?

In the classics it is Canc/Sagan dominating, perhaps Scleck could learn from Fabs training.

You're letting the facts get in the way again del

 

[Carols]

There would be plenty would say it was more PR from Sky, plenty that would say Ashenden has been bought, like many say now about David Walsh.

And more so I see no reason why Sky should be the only team that should do it. That smacks of bias. Again we need testing we can believe in for all riders, independent of the UCI, not asking one team out of many to do a publicity stunt to satisfy their internet accusers.

Who wouldn't be satisfied anyway.

Ashenden saying they are 'believable' would convince me If he said nothing that would also convince me that my fears are true.

Sky keeps saying 'what can we do', well they can hire the most respected, independent expert available, that is what they can do.

 

[gooner]

There would be plenty would say it was more PR from Sky, plenty that would say Ashenden has been bought, like many say now about David Walsh.

And more so I see no reason why Sky should be the only team that should do it. That smacks of bias. Again we need testing we can believe in for all riders, independent of the UCI, not asking one team out of many to do a publicity stunt to satisfy their internet accusers.

Who wouldn't be satisfied anyway.

Wiggins in 2011 said every rider should release their profiles publicly. Now he all of a sudden he's gone quiet in recent times with talk like that.

Why couldn't they do what he is suggested with Ashenden above? Lead the way. It would put more pressure on other teams to follow suit and would add more credence to what they are doing. And no one would come to the conclusion that he had been bought off or whatever. Remember this is the same guy who pulled out of the Cycling Change Now group when Antoine Vayer reached out to Armstrong and wouldn't have anything got to do with it.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Ashenden saying they are 'believable' would convince me If he said nothing that would also convince me that my fears are true.

Sky keeps saying 'what can we do', well they can hire the most respected, independent expert available, that is what they can do.

Fair enough, but hopefully without putting words into your mouth you are asking for reliable testing that we can trust, Ashenden being the arbiter of that trust of course. So get independent testing by Ashenden for all teams and riders and we can have much greater faith with what is going on.

I simply don't think Sky should be singled out. If they are doping, they're not alone in that, so shouldn't be fixated on as the source of cycling's ills.

 

[thehog]

I have to admit motor pacing is not something I've seen before. If Sky are training at race pace behind the car I can imagine it gives them an edge.

As a thought they should create a race behind a motorcycle on the track. That would be cool. Have it at six-day events.

 

[Carols]

Why couldn't they do what is suggested with Ashenden above? Lead the way. It would put more pressure on other teams to follow suit and would add more credence to what they are doing. And no one would come to the conclusion that he had been bought off or whatever. Remember this is the same guy who pulled out of the Cycling Change Now group when Antoine Vayer reached out to Armstrong and wouldn't have anything got to do with it.

Indeed! Lead the way with an believable expert!