Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

You're more than welcome to start 1.

As for where they learnt to climb, no idea. But you could say where did Froome learn to ride, after all he came from the jungle and there were no roads there.

Froome only went up Ventoux last month, when he filmed something for ES.

Froome last month went up with Kelly, funny.

 

[hrotha]

Ok, so Richie Porte. Just how much acting is he doing during this Tour?

 

[roundabout]

I don't know. But what's up with him still going after having done his job. Is this the Sky warmdown method? Intimidation? Fighting for 27th on GC?

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Froome last month went up with Kelly, funny.

Maybe Sky can sign up that norwegian guy with the handlebar 'tache - he gave Froome a better race up Ventoux than Contador managed and he'd be cheaper than Wiggins

 

[Cycle Chic]

David Lopez

What the hells going on with David Lopez ? Today he dropped back at a ridiculously early stage...did he even do any work ?

And...I noticed 2 strange incidents regarding Lopez. Riding in alongside Geraint Thomas when Ed Boassen Hagen was holding his shoulder near the finish line. Lopez tapped Geraint Thomas on the arm to get his attention..Thomas ignores him, Lopez tries again and Thomas looks round looking extremely irritated by him. He then brushes off what Lopez says and rides on. Yeh he was concerned for Boassen hagen but the way he responded to Lopez was not the way you react with your Teammate.

Riding on the front on Fridays stage Lopez turns to Stannard and asks him something...Stannard similarly gives him the brush off. Lopez then turned to the Movistar rider riding alongside Lopez and made the gesture that Stannard was being a grumpy sod...and had a laugh with the Movistar rider. It was strange....its like Lopez has been ostracized.

He is one of their engines alongside Kiryienka...whats happened with him ?

 

[hrotha]

Well, David López said he was sick/injured before the Tour and barely made it in time to the start of the race. He reckons he shouldn't have started at all, but Sky don't like to move their squads around once their racing calendars have been decided. That's the official version.

Others say Kiryenka and him don't fit in at Sky.

 

[pastronef]

found this on WeightWeenies forum


I bet Sky is on something, but its not illegal and probably not pharmacological and their edge comes from properly manipulating it. Think of it this way:

-People know that training at altitude can stimulate red blood cell production. People also know that it can temporarily lower power output. Training in the mountains also involves a very specific neuromuscular type of effort.
-Sky know everything that is required to win a stage race in terms of power output, nutrition, what kind of efforts to train for, and how to monitor rider's progress.
-Most other teams just go to altitude once or twice a year and ride there.

So if its something as simple as an altitude camp perhaps Sky have figured out the key relationship between the altitude effect and race performance. Research on the affects of altitude vary in prescription, but perhaps Sky has figured out the precise timing and type of training to give them even a 5% edge on gains that come from altitude.

Sky also has a lot of riders that lose a lot of weight/mass quickly. Preliminary research on the function of ketosis and carbohydrate restriction on aerobic metabolism and gene expression are really interesting. Even riding fasted in a slightly depleted state has shown to have profound affects on gene expression and adaptation. Maybe, with their absurd budget, they have access to medical professionals that can supervise this type of training so they can do it right up to the red line where they could potentially underfuel/under recover. Hell, I remember Wiggins giving an example of a ketogenic diet he used to follow in the winter, maybe its linked?

To me if all of these things are combined well and used efficiently than there already is an edge there. Compound that with a staff that knows how to plan and control every one of these variables during the year and you have a higher chance of success. I'd like to believe that that's it for now, but maybe there is some other designer substance as well who knows, but I'm not solidly convinced yet because I feel that the team would be more than a one trick pony. They have essentially 1 approach- get really good at climbing at a steady output and time trialling at a steady output for stage races.

Remember how Mapei used to rip apart the classics doped to the gills? Where are Sky's classics results? They have results here and there but by and large they do one thing and do it really well. On the other hand you have a team like BMC where they aren't assembling teams until the last minute, riders don't know if they're riding a GT until a mont in advance, and the team functions like **** together. To me that says a lot about their performance advantages.

 

[mikehammer67]

found this on WeightWeenies forum


I bet Sky is on something, but its not illegal and probably not pharmacological and their edge comes from properly manipulating it. Think of it this way:

-People know that training at altitude can stimulate red blood cell production. People also know that it can temporarily lower power output. Training in the mountains also involves a very specific neuromuscular type of effort.
-Sky know everything that is required to win a stage race in terms of power output, nutrition, what kind of efforts to train for, and how to monitor rider's progress.
-Most other teams just go to altitude once or twice a year and ride there.

So if its something as simple as an altitude camp perhaps Sky have figured out the key relationship between the altitude effect and race performance. Research on the affects of altitude vary in prescription, but perhaps Sky has figured out the precise timing and type of training to give them even a 5% edge on gains that come from altitude.

Sky also has a lot of riders that lose a lot of weight/mass quickly. Preliminary research on the function of ketosis and carbohydrate restriction on aerobic metabolism and gene expression are really interesting. Even riding fasted in a slightly depleted state has shown to have profound affects on gene expression and adaptation. Maybe, with their absurd budget, they have access to medical professionals that can supervise this type of training so they can do it right up to the red line where they could potentially underfuel/under recover. Hell, I remember Wiggins giving an example of a ketogenic diet he used to follow in the winter, maybe its linked?

To me if all of these things are combined well and used efficiently than there already is an edge there. Compound that with a staff that knows how to plan and control every one of these variables during the year and you have a higher chance of success. I'd like to believe that that's it for now, but maybe there is some other designer substance as well who knows, but I'm not solidly convinced yet because I feel that the team would be more than a one trick pony. They have essentially 1 approach- get really good at climbing at a steady output and time trialling at a steady output for stage races.

Remember how Mapei used to rip apart the classics doped to the gills? Where are Sky's classics results? They have results here and there but by and large they do one thing and do it really well. On the other hand you have a team like BMC where they aren't assembling teams until the last minute, riders don't know if they're riding a GT until a mont in advance, and the team functions like **** together. To me that says a lot about their performance advantages.

some good stuff in there

 

[JRanton]

Well, David López said he was sick/injured before the Tour and barely made it in time to the start of the race. He reckons he shouldn't have started at all, but Sky don't like to move their squads around once their racing calendars have been decided. That's the official version.

Others say Kiryenka and him don't fit in at Sky.

They seemed to have fitted in at Sky very well during the Spring races so I wouldn't pay any attention to that. The problem for Sky was that they stacked their Giro roster so much that they didn't really have any fresh alternatives to Kiryienka or Lopez when it became apparent that they were out of form at the Dauphine and presumably also at the Teide training camp. The non-Giro alternatives were neo-pros, sprinters and rouleurs.

 

[zlev11]

kinda weird how all of Sky's domestique performances dropped right off after Sivtsov's Trentino stage win. that was right around the time guys started getting popped for GW1516 if i remember correctly.

Lopez and Kiriyienka were ridiculously strong at Paris-Nice.

 

[buckle]

They have essentially 1 approach- get really good at climbing at a steady output and time trialling at a steady output for stage races.

Was Froome steady on Ventoux when he kicked? Is TTing faster than TM also classed as steady in this new paradigm?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Sky also has a lot of riders that lose a lot of weight/mass quickly. Preliminary research on the function of ketosis and carbohydrate restriction on aerobic metabolism and gene expression are really interesting. Even riding fasted in a slightly depleted state has shown to have profound affects on gene expression and adaptation. Maybe, with their absurd budget, they have access to medical professionals that can supervise this type of training so they can do it right up to the red line where they could potentially underfuel/under recover. Hell, I remember Wiggins giving an example of a ketogenic diet he used to follow in the winter, maybe its linked?

There are definitely legal ways to affect energy metabolism. The problem with ketosis is that while it dramarically improves lipid power, you still need glycogen, especially at higher intensities, but the carbohydrate intake needed to stay ketogenic is very low. I doubt it's an advantage. However, there are legal things you can use. There is at least one natural ppar-regulator (similar to GW 501516, but I presume it's weaker). There is a man-made, complex carbohydrate that doesn't raise blood glucose the way simple sugars do. So it appears you can fill up on carbs during a ride without inhibiting fat oxidation, thus presumably sparing muscle glycogen and protein.

 

[Setarkos]

Yes that's why I said naturally speaking LA shouldn't be a GC grand tour contender

Maybe not but how do you know that you have clean numbers from him?

 

[The Hitch]

Remember how Mapei used to rip apart the classics doped to the gills? Where are Sky's classics results? They have results here and there but by and large they do one thing and do it really well. On the other hand you have a team like BMC where they aren't assembling teams until the last minute, riders don't know if they're riding a GT until a mont in advance, and the team functions like **** together. To me that says a lot about their performance advantages.[/I]

I also remember that US Postal was doped to the gills and never won a monument. Brunyeel won what was it 14 gts, over 11 years but never a monument.

 

[timbo25]

what about sky donating money to the UCI for developing teen riders?
if a sky rider test positive, will the amount be the same next year?

 

[thehog]

an on form Contador vs. Froome will be amazing to watch whenever it happens, at least. it might even be better than his battle with The Chicken in 2007.

Well it was worse. Contador got creamed.

 

[thehog]

This Tour victory is the easiest to explain in a long time. A better prepared team, a weak field, absence of the rider who would have won it (Contador), absence of the team leader of 2nd strongest Tour team (RSNT), crashes of other team leaders (Garmin, etc), most other teams riding for stage wins, Nibali and Liquigas main competitor for GC - clearly a weaker team, and the most favorable route for Wiggins ever. Easy to explain this one.

And the passages of time....

 

[User Guide]

found this on WeightWeenies forum


I bet Sky is on something, but its not illegal and probably not pharmacological and their edge comes from properly manipulating it. Think of it this way:

-People know that training at altitude can stimulate red blood cell production. People also know that it can temporarily lower power output. Training in the mountains also involves a very specific neuromuscular type of effort.
-Sky know everything that is required to win a stage race in terms of power output, nutrition, what kind of efforts to train for, and how to monitor rider's progress.
-Most other teams just go to altitude once or twice a year and ride there.

So if its something as simple as an altitude camp perhaps Sky have figured out the key relationship between the altitude effect and race performance. Research on the affects of altitude vary in prescription, but perhaps Sky has figured out the precise timing and type of training to give them even a 5% edge on gains that come from altitude.

Sky also has a lot of riders that lose a lot of weight/mass quickly. Preliminary research on the function of ketosis and carbohydrate restriction on aerobic metabolism and gene expression are really interesting. Even riding fasted in a slightly depleted state has shown to have profound affects on gene expression and adaptation. Maybe, with their absurd budget, they have access to medical professionals that can supervise this type of training so they can do it right up to the red line where they could potentially underfuel/under recover. Hell, I remember Wiggins giving an example of a ketogenic diet he used to follow in the winter, maybe its linked?

To me if all of these things are combined well and used efficiently than there already is an edge there. Compound that with a staff that knows how to plan and control every one of these variables during the year and you have a higher chance of success. I'd like to believe that that's it for now, but maybe there is some other designer substance as well who knows, but I'm not solidly convinced yet because I feel that the team would be more than a one trick pony. They have essentially 1 approach- get really good at climbing at a steady output and time trialling at a steady output for stage races.

Remember how Mapei used to rip apart the classics doped to the gills? Where are Sky's classics results? They have results here and there but by and large they do one thing and do it really well. On the other hand you have a team like BMC where they aren't assembling teams until the last minute, riders don't know if they're riding a GT until a mont in advance, and the team functions like **** together. To me that says a lot about their performance advantages.

Didnt Brailsford claim weight loss was being acheived by calorie defecit rather than carb restriction ?

 

[oldcrank]

Didnt Brailsford claim weight loss was being acheived by calorie defecit rather than carb restriction ?

I think that was just his quick and flippant reply to the
question from the self important journalist who was being
followed around by his own film crew. But then Sir Dave
quickly added something along the lines of "ask our diet
and nutrition staff" or words to that effect, as I recall.

 

[zlev11]

someone should ask the nutritionist then. i want to know how the hell Kennaugh could've possibly lost 5 kilos since the Dauphine. im serious, i'd like to lose a few pounds myself over the next 3 weeks.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Didnt Brailsford claim weight loss was being acheived by calorie defecit rather than carb restriction ?

Well, duh! The only way you're going to lose weight is through calorie restriction.

 

[User Guide]

Well, duh! The only way you're going to lose weight is through calorie restriction.

no its not.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

no its not.

Yeah that made me scratch my head a bit too...

 

[Cerberus]

Yeah that made me scratch my head a bit too...

I'm pretty sure that what he meant was "Well, duh! The only way you're going to lose weight is through calorie deficit." He mashed up the terms "calorie deficit" and "carb restriction".

 

[The Hitch]

This was lost in the Froome thread but id like to look into it a little more.

Did sloberingham and kerrison just make up that sky invented training methods that have been in use since for ever, and offer this as a reason for Froome being able to match Armstrong?

Frei re advanced training methods. I do this "advanced" stuff since ca. 2003 when my former coach had a session on the Büttgen track with Uli Schoberer who came back from Tuscany where he did some tests together with Checchini. Basso reportedly was doing insane amounts of 40/20 up to 8x10' over 6hours.

Thomas Frei‏@thomasfrei1h
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france … nothing new about those intervalls. 30"/30",40"/20",20"/40" etc. ! #Fact

That article was hilarious. It seems that the Kerrison myth was dieing down so they had to take it to warp speed. "Froome is able to gap other riders because attacking in the seat is more aero" is the most absurd thing I've ever read, why didn't Basso come up with that one?