- May 28, 2012
- 2,779
- 0
- 0
Parrulo said:
What is this based on? Leinders is currently being investigated, unlike Ferrari for instance. Fuentes lost some heat as well. I can believe that Froome has had his program modified ad improved, which explains his insane performances, but to say that Leinders is the mastermind goes too far.
And how have other riders done their fine tuning of their program? A rider like Cunego immediately had his best year when doing the beta version, since he never repeated his 2004 results. Wasn't watching cycling back then, so I don't have the necessary background knowledge to judge such processes.
- Feb 10, 2010
- 10,645
- 20
- 22,510
Parrulo said:
Add to that the UCI's efforts developing Africa as a new cycling continent. The sport suddenly (there's that word again) had a Grand Tour/TT/HC athlete with no precedence at all.
http://boxscorenews.com/world-cycli...eceives-major-sportaccord-award-p56593-68.htm
This award sums up the IOC and UCI quite nicely. Hein ran SportAccord, essentially awarding bestowing his own sport federation the honor.
- May 15, 2011
- 45,171
- 617
- 24,680
Taxus4a said:
What is also a fact is that Contador had a lot of good results in prestigious races in the first few years of his career and showed potential. Froome didn't. So Froome was better in his first Tour than Contador in his first Tour according to you. Let's just forget about the fact that Contador finished 31st overall and Froome 81st. Froome as far as I know had a bit of a free role. Contador was working for his teamleaders. And you know, when you're a domestique, your own result is not important.
What is also a fact is that Contador is a doper. So Froome according to you outperforms a doper and that proves he's clean
great logic.Let's not compare Froome to Contador anymore shall? It's pretty ridiculous.
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
Netserk said:How did Contador improve so much from 2005 to 2007? It was just his natural level that increased that much?
Contador was, and he is, always a big talent, but he wanst so talented for three weeks or long stages, he has a change about that in 2007
- Aug 5, 2010
- 11,027
- 89
- 22,580
Pentacycle said:
Just speculation, but if the whole Rasmussen situation as taught us something, is that Leinders was extremely successful without getting any attention from the public and more importantly, without getting any of his riders testing positive.
And since when has an investigation, or hell even a trial, stopped a rider from working with a doping doctor. Just look at how many clients Ferrari still had even after he was suspended from sport. Leinders is clearly a more low profile type of guy, which might actually be the key to his success compared to the fairly extravagant figures of Ferrari and Fuentes, so it is far from impossible that he is still working with a small group of riders (the sky core) without being detected.
As for the cunego part, the bolded part is showing a bit. Cunego rode for one of the most experienced doping teams of the time (who can forget the famous red train?) and came from the Italian u23 scene where doping was/is widespread. So he had already a lot of experience with doping by 04.
Also Cunego has pretty much admitted, many times in fact, that he was doped at the time but not anymore. And his results show, his performance as gradually been decreasing and even when he was still doing well on one day races in 08/09 you could see that he was only a shadow of his 22 year old self.
In fact his last good performance was during the 2011 Tour which not only was a big crash fest that eliminated a lot of the competition, but was probably the slowest Tour of the last decade.
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
LaFlorecita said:What is also a fact is that Contador had a lot of good results in prestigious races in the first few years of his career and showed potential. Froome didn't. So Froome was better in his first Tour than Contador in his first Tour according to you. Let's just forget about the fact that Contador finished 31st overall and Froome 81st. Froome as far as I know had a bit of a free role. Contador was working for his teamleaders. And you know, when you're a domestique, your own result is not important.
What is also a fact is that Contador is a doper. So Froome according to you outperforms a doper and that proves he's clean
Let's not compare Froome to Contador anymore shall? It's pretty ridiculous.
Froome did, but they are differente riders, You must compared to Andy, becouse they are more similars.
Froome has good performances, but not the results of Contador, that came from a very good school.
It is interesting to heard what his director said in GP of the nations, where he showed more strong than Mollema or Rui Costa, but he finished not very well in GC
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
Netserk said:
To say it sould be a fact or it must be a fact are two possibilities including in: It is not a fact.
I dont not if there is that public proof, i dont know about that, and there is not any new or coment on the internet before the Vuelta about that.
If I would be journalist I would investigate about that, and if I were SKY or UCI I would try to clarify this.
I dont have any interest to defend Froome, I want the best for my favourite sport, if I read something that is false about a rider, in this case Froome, I said, and if something is true I said as well, no problem.
I believe him, but that is not a proof of anything, the same as people that dont believe them.
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
There is a good post about his bilhazia, that said similar thing than my article, for sure better and more complete.
http://froome19.blogspot.com.es/2013/08/chris-froome-bilharzia.html
I am going to writte about this things now there.
http://froome19.blogspot.com.es/2013/08/chris-froome-bilharzia.html
I am going to writte about this things now there.
- Sep 29, 2012
- 12,197
- 0
- 0
Taxus4a said:
There's a few posts here, from (allegedly) medical people, providing links, etc, that show Blizharia can be cured, typically with one treatment, and it does not hang around post-treatment. Only reinfection brings it back.
Then we have the permanent Team Sky doctor saying Froome's blood showed no changes 2011-2013. ie the blizharia was not impacting on his blood, or it was but the team doctor failed to notice. This was from an interview with David Walsh.
So:
1. there is evidence that it can be cured, and is not a recurring problem
2. the TEAM SKY DOCTOR seems to think Froome's blood did not change, despite the claims of blizharia being present and the insinuation that it was hampering his performance until he was treated properly.
These two items lead me to believe it's more of a red herring than an explanation for anything.
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
Dear Wiggo said:
thanks!
I need more information to answer that.
If things are like that, things change. Froome said the parasite feed on blood cells... that must affect hematocrit, unless the body can reply that but paying a price for that...a doctor must tell...
To say that bilharzia is just cured with one treatment, it is not the information I have. it is a possibility, but the problem with bilhazia it is that has a lot of kinds...some people died, some people dont know they have for a long time.
Anyway in 2011 froome started already his treatment, the interesting would be know 2010
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,259
- 28,180
That's the problem though, they only released to Grappe the figures from the 2011 Vuelta onwards, so none of the ones that would actually enable us to judge more accurately.
The problem is, bilharzia is something that Chris Froome is much more likely to be susceptible to than pretty much anybody else in the pro péloton, and it is something that feeds on blood cells and would explain disappointing performance, fatigue and lowered hematocrit levels. But it is also, because of its characteristics, almost the most perfect disease of all to explain away blood manipulation. You can chuck out the old tests for Froome, the baseline is rendered irrelevant because how can you consider tests taken when he has a parasite feeding on his blood cells to be an accurate representation of what a normal level blood reading is for him? (genuine question) Therefore bilharzia is more perfect than almost any other illness on earth to explain significant changes in blood values. Coupled with the convenient time of its appearances and disappearances, and you have a recipe for scepticism.
The problem is, bilharzia is something that Chris Froome is much more likely to be susceptible to than pretty much anybody else in the pro péloton, and it is something that feeds on blood cells and would explain disappointing performance, fatigue and lowered hematocrit levels. But it is also, because of its characteristics, almost the most perfect disease of all to explain away blood manipulation. You can chuck out the old tests for Froome, the baseline is rendered irrelevant because how can you consider tests taken when he has a parasite feeding on his blood cells to be an accurate representation of what a normal level blood reading is for him? (genuine question) Therefore bilharzia is more perfect than almost any other illness on earth to explain significant changes in blood values. Coupled with the convenient time of its appearances and disappearances, and you have a recipe for scepticism.
- Sep 29, 2012
- 12,197
- 0
- 0
Taxus4a said:
Don't you find it strange that the "transparent, open" Team Sky provide NO details on which specific version of blizharia Froome has?
Don't you find it strange that the "transparent, open" Team Sky provide NO information pre-2011 to compare the impact untreated blizharia has on an athlete's blood profile vs treated blizharia?
Don't you find it strange that of all the athletes coming out of Kenya - and there is a veritable sh!t-tonne of them, so little corroborating evidence is provided to support the notion that:
1. athletes get this thing
2. it's incurable and has to receive ongoing treatment
3. pre / post-treatment the athlete is an order of magnitude better
Some people die from the common cold as well, I think that's an emotive response and not really relevant to the discussion.
If you can list all the different kinds of blizharia, I would appreciate that. It would also be interesting to see the treatment for each type, if they are different. Things like penicillin are used to combat a host of different nasties, so I am doubting different strains of blizharia require significantly different remedies, but could be wrong. Typically the goal is to prevent reproduction.
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
Dear Wiggo said:
I put some links... I dont know if there are different kind or treatment, but I hope find out it.
I have bever said I consider SKy a transparent team. It is as transparent as others. It is a team with an strong antidoping policy that I dont agree, but with some good points.
- Sep 29, 2012
- 12,197
- 0
- 0
Taxus4a said:
Sorry but I couldn't care less what you say about Team Sky.
David Brailsford is the one who said they will / want to be transparent and open.
etc.
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
Dear Wiggo said:
Sure?
http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0042-96862008001000014&script=sci_arttext
- Aug 12, 2012
- 6,996
- 1,011
- 20,680
I understand Dave, becouse it happens like that, but I dont agree, that is not transparence for me, transparece is what Horner did, although pseudo scientist like hrotha tell us the truth about how the data shows.
VeloNews: Froome declined to release his power numbers publicly, why?
Dave Brailsford: It’s an interesting question. There is so much pseudo science out there right now. If you release the data, there are very few people who can properly interpret and understand that data. All you’re going to do is create is a lot of noise for people who are pseudo scientists. You can even write magazines about it. They’re so wide of the mark in what they’re doing, it’s quite scary. You can do anything with stats. You can use that with a cynical view.
VN: And that information would be available to your rivals?
DB: It’s our competitive advantage [Brailsford compared it to a journalist sharing a scoop with rivals]. It’s not how the world works. We want to be open and transparent, but that’s why the biological passport is actually a good thing. You have an agreed panel of experts, you agree to a collective decision, they know how to analyze it. If we evolved and worked on that principle, then it’s something we’d be interested in.
If people could truly understand and interpret power, what it is and what it isn’t, and it isn’t what a lot of people think it is. You get all kinds of readings. We look at power numbers every day, and you get these anomalies, you get these quirks, if things are not quite calibrated correctly, or if something else is wrong. All of those things need to be taken into account, just like the biological passport. There is a fruitful area of debate and opportunity in terms of what power data could provide, I am very pro-that, but just releasing it in general is not the right way to go.
VeloNews: Froome declined to release his power numbers publicly, why?
Dave Brailsford: It’s an interesting question. There is so much pseudo science out there right now. If you release the data, there are very few people who can properly interpret and understand that data. All you’re going to do is create is a lot of noise for people who are pseudo scientists. You can even write magazines about it. They’re so wide of the mark in what they’re doing, it’s quite scary. You can do anything with stats. You can use that with a cynical view.
VN: And that information would be available to your rivals?
DB: It’s our competitive advantage [Brailsford compared it to a journalist sharing a scoop with rivals]. It’s not how the world works. We want to be open and transparent, but that’s why the biological passport is actually a good thing. You have an agreed panel of experts, you agree to a collective decision, they know how to analyze it. If we evolved and worked on that principle, then it’s something we’d be interested in.
If people could truly understand and interpret power, what it is and what it isn’t, and it isn’t what a lot of people think it is. You get all kinds of readings. We look at power numbers every day, and you get these anomalies, you get these quirks, if things are not quite calibrated correctly, or if something else is wrong. All of those things need to be taken into account, just like the biological passport. There is a fruitful area of debate and opportunity in terms of what power data could provide, I am very pro-that, but just releasing it in general is not the right way to go.
- Sep 29, 2012
- 12,197
- 0
- 0
Taxus4a said:
Your link does not support a position of disagreement to the assertion that blizharia can be cured with a one off treatment. If you feel it does, you will enhance the discussion significantly by posting the relevant text, rather than a single worded question and a URL.
It's also a 5++ year old study.
- May 15, 2011
- 45,171
- 617
- 24,680
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 792
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 854
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 35K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 40K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s ITT, September 21- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 942
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram