Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[ChewbaccaD]

He said more of value in one tweet than you will ever say.

I'll give you 140 characters to say anything on any subject to show you are the intellectual superior you clearly think you are. You actual tweeter feed seems to be solely cheap digs at people more successful than you.

Just one fact about you to back up your sense of superiority. Just one.

Were us a USPS fan? No wait, you lauded Simeoni as a clean hero...which tells us all we need to know about how long you've followed the sport...

As for me, I don't need to be superior. I just hope not to be blind enough to believe teams are clean, simply because they put out PR that says they are...especially when two of their riders, who never came close to showing the potential to be Tour winners, slaughter the competition in the TdF out of nowhere...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I'm not talking about what happened years later. Just what Bassons wrote in 1999 that makes him a hero to many.

First of all do you or anyone actually know what Bassons wrote? In reality it was fairly minimal but it somehow annoyed Armstrong. kennaugh's tweet was far more pointed.

Bassons never really said much at all specific but is hailed a hero. Those who cry out for a new Bassons slate Kennaugh for more, because they are consumed by hatred for Sky. They are the hypocrites, not Kennaugh.

If you ever ask for riders speak out and then criticise them for doing so, please realise that you are a bigoted idiot.

Lance Armstrong said things when other riders were caught doping..."donkeys into race horses" was coined by him...so you'll have to excuse me if I find the anti-doping tweet of a dude on a dodgy team to not be super important to the fight against doping...at best, it's a marginal gain...

 

[Parker]

Were us a USPS fan? No wait, you lauded Simeoni as a clean hero...which tells us all we need to know about how long you've followed the sport...

Go on then. How long have I followed it?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

So what it comes down is your opinion. That is more important than the truth. The 'truth' is paramount as long as it is written by you.

In your opinion Leinders could only have been hired for doping. That must not be contadicted. The first rule of internet forums is 'protect your opinion'. While Kennaugh knows what the truth is, it cannot be compared to the validity of you opinion (how can it when you are so infallible?). How arrogant are you to think that your unsupported opinions are more valid than his actual experiences? Fool and liar, you call him. Based on nothing more than your opinion. Incredibly arrogant is the answer.

So you want people to speak out against dopers. But only on the condition that the rider saying it is acceptable to you and voices your opinion, not theirs.

Next time when there is a doping story and riders say nothing, don't claim that's 'omerta', just consider that possibly, just possibly, that they don't want to hear from an wave of dickheads.

The Clinic 8...er..9 or 10...maybe 11.."AN WAVE OF DICKHEADS!!!" I like it, it has a nice ring.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Go on then. How long have I followed it?

In the words of Jay Cutler "Doooooonnnnnnn't Caaaarrrrreeeeeee..."

 

[Parker]

In the words of Jay Cutler "Doooooonnnnnnn't Caaaarrrrreeeeeee..."

Well you said you had all you needed to know about when I started watching. Just as you claim to have all you need to know that someone is doping.

So, just for fun, let's see how good your assessments are.

 

[Granville57]

The Clinic 8...er..9 or 10...maybe 11.."AN WAVE OF DICKHEADS!!!" I like it, it has a nice ring.

Careful now. Didn't you punks just get into some trouble abroad?

http://scenestr.com.au/general/meredith-music-festival-prosecutes-11-dickheads

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Well you said you had all you needed to know about when I started watching. Just as you claim to have all you need to know that someone is doping.

So, just for fun, let's see how good your assessments are.

How long: Not long enough to know Simeoni admitted to doping with Ferrari in court , which is why Armstrong went after him...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Careful now. Didn't you punks just get into some trouble abroad?

http://scenestr.com.au/general/meredith-music-festival-prosecutes-11-dickheads

Yep, we raise h3ll everywhere we go! PLAY SKYNYRD MOTHERFU*KERS!!!!

 

[red_flanders]

No you're getting off subject.

Kennaugh made his tweet. He got much support but from the doping extremists he got abuse - what about Rogers, Leinders, etc

If Bassons had tweeted in 1999 with the little he said, he would have got similar abuse due to him not speaking out about Festina (who said nothing about while he was there or in 1999). The people who abused Kennaugh would have abused Bassons.

The sort of people you acclaim from that era, you demonise now, because they don't voice you opinion.

Write this out 100 times: "My opinion may not be right. Let's hear what more informed people have to say"

Look, you're just way off base here. I have demonized no one in the sport, and you have no clue what I said back then.

I'm simply telling you that you're way off base and way to wrapped up in defending Sky to see specific criticism for what it is.

Labeling people "extremists", using terms like "demonise"...it's just way over the top.

Your Bassons comparison is getting more tortured. Bassons got HUGE levels of abuse in those years when he made a few comments about Armstrong. The abuse from the Armstrong faithful was just over the top and went on for years and years.

You're railing against the people who have gotten it right time and time again. Maybe a gut check is in order.

 

[Parker]

How long: Not long enough to know Simeoni admitted to doping with Ferrari in court , which is why Armstrong went after him...

Go on, have some balls. Put a year on the first time I saw the Tour de France on TV.

(To help you, I didn't say that Simeoni was a clean hero - just someone that Armstrong had to deal with)

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Go on, have some balls. Put a year on the first time I saw the Tour de France on TV.

(To help you, I didn't say that Simeoni was a clean hero - just someone that Armstrong had to deal with)

You compared Simeoni to Bassons, and then also to Kennaugh...you don't know enough about the sport or anti-doping for me to care really. Lots of people watched bits of the Tour. He11, there are thousands of Treks with less than 100 miles on them, sitting in garages across the US...who cares when small-time, casual fans started watching the Tour? When did you follow the Spring Classics by waiting of a month to get the results in one of the few publications that posted the results?

 

[Parker]

Bassons got HUGE levels of abuse in those years when he made a few comments about Armstrong. The abuse from the Armstrong faithful was just over the top and went on for years and years.

But did he get abuse from those claiming to fight for a clean sport? Kennaugh's abusers on twitter came from this forum and the tweeter 'Digger Forum' and his disciples.

After his tweet, for them he became the biggest subject of doping tweets - more than anyone named in the Ferrari stories.

They want riders to speak out. But only if it's the riders they approve of voicing opinions they share themselves.

If you ask riders to speak out and they do, do not attack them. If you disagree, fair enough, politely ask questions. But if you abuse them you are showing others who would like to speak out what they can expect. The rabid doping fans have become the omerta enforcers they despise. Such is revolution.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If posters speak out, do not attack them. If you disagree, fair enough, politely ask questions. But if you abuse them you are showing others who would like to speak out what they can expect. The rabid Sky defenders have become the omerta enforcers they despise. Such is revolution.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Parker]

You compared Simeoni to Bassons, and then also to Kennaugh...you don't know enough about the sport or anti-doping for me to care really.

I didn't compare them. I just said that Armstrong's bullying job would be done by the anti-doping twitter police. Why didn't those hypocritical riders speak out about every suspected doper as Kennaugh is expected to?

Lots of people watched bits of the Tour. He11, there are thousands of Treks with less than 100 miles on them, sitting in garages across the US...who cares when small-time, casual fans started watching the Tour? When did you follow the Spring Classics by waiting of a month to get the results in one of the few publications that posted the results?

Sure the Tour's not everything. So tell me what year I started reading the magazines and books then?

I'll give you a clue. When I was 17 at school we had to write a big project on any subject we liked - I wrote about pro cycling - classics & all - including photos from the Tour I saw the previous summer). What year? (Bonus points for naming the rider on the cover)


Out of interest, when did you start watching the sport?

PS Are you seriously a lawyer - because your debating skills are laughable. Try and sharpen them up by arguing against the self-entitled mob - not here, but somewhere.

 

[Parker]

I'm incapable of coming up with a sensible counter argument so I'll resort to cheap tricks

Fixed that for you.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Fixed that for you.

My counter argument is that you are asking people to do what you yourself are incapable of doing. Remaining calm, politely asking questions, etc.

The same arguments you will or could use for why you do not act in the way you are demanding others act, can and do apply to the people who are not acting the way you want.

 

[Parker]

My counter argument is that you are asking people to do what you yourself are incapable of doing. Remaining calm, politely asking questions, etc.

The same arguments you will or could use for why you do not act in the way you are demanding others act, can and do apply to the people who are not acting the way you want.

If I need an answer I'll ask a question.

However, I wont respond to a cyclist speaking out by abusing him.

However, there many did. Here's a fairly mild example:

****** @***** · 23h 23 hours ago
CyclingNews republish @Petekennaugh's outrage, and handily forget his hypocrisy. Chapeau CN!

Now, that doesn't seem like a tweet from someone that encourages riders to speak out. It seems hateful and trolling. As a rider would you speak out if that was the reaction you got. It says 'don't speak out. If you do we'll take you apart'.

If you, or anyone else, such as that tweeter, bemoan riders for not speaking out - just remember that you are the reason. Once in a while take a step back and consider if you are the hypocrite (clue: you are).

 

[Granville57]

Random thought for this thread:

Maybe the Ignore Button could be put to use?









Characters and incidents portrayed in this post are fictitious, and any similarity to the name, character or history of any person is entirely coincidental and unintentional.

This has been a public service announcement.

 

[Parker]

Maybe the Ignore Button could be put to use?

The ignore button is for people who are afraid of alternative views. It is only used by the insecure..

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I didn't compare them. I just said that Armstrong's bullying job would be done by the anti-doping twitter police. Why didn't those hypocritical riders speak out about every suspected doper as Kennaugh is expected to?


Sure the Tour's not everything. So tell me what year I started reading the magazines and books then?

I'll give you a clue. When I was 17 at school we had to write a big project on any subject we liked - I wrote about pro cycling - classics & all - including photos from the Tour I saw the previous summer). What year? (Bonus points for naming the rider on the cover)


Out of interest, when did you start watching the sport?

PS Are you seriously a lawyer - because your debating skills are laughable. Try and sharpen them up by arguing against the self-entitled mob - not here, but somewhere.

Oh, I'm not an attorney, I am part of the Clinic 36, AN WAVE OF D!CKHEADS!!!

Past that, I really don't care about your cycling bona fides. I know enough to know you don't really know anything about the sport. Your knowledge of cycling is laughable. Try and sharpen it up by reading something other than Sky press releases and sniffing the under skin of their riders on twitter.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Methinks a certain member smells of socks and puppets...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

If I need an answer I'll ask a question.

However, I wont respond to a cyclist speaking out by abusing him.

However, there many did. Here's a fairly mild example:

****** @***** · 23h 23 hours ago
CyclingNews republish @Petekennaugh's outrage, and handily forget his hypocrisy. Chapeau CN!

Now, that doesn't seem like a tweet from someone that encourages riders to speak out. It seems hateful and trolling. As a rider would you speak out if that was the reaction you got. It says 'don't speak out. If you do we'll take you apart'.

If you, or anyone else, such as that tweeter, bemoan riders for not speaking out - just remember that you are the reason. Once in a while take a step back and consider if you are the hypocrite (clue: you are).

Many of us were taking mountains of abuse everywhere when we were the minority of voices against Armstrong and the dopers of his era...Now, the same happens from the same type of person that defended USPS, only now the colors of their jerseys is black and this hideous blue color...

So, I think any of us would voice our opinions regardless of the amount of, or stupidity of the voices that oppose us...because we've done that already and have the tee shirt.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If I need an answer I'll ask a question.

However, I wont respond to a cyclist speaking out by abusing him.

However, there many did. Here's a fairly mild example:

****** @***** · 23h 23 hours ago
CyclingNews republish @Petekennaugh's outrage, and handily forget his hypocrisy. Chapeau CN!

Now, that doesn't seem like a tweet from someone that encourages riders to speak out. It seems hateful and trolling. As a rider would you speak out if that was the reaction you got. It says 'don't speak out. If you do we'll take you apart'.

If you, or anyone else, such as that tweeter, bemoan riders for not speaking out - just remember that you are the reason. Once in a while take a step back and consider if you are the hypocrite (clue: you are).

No, I am not the hypocrite. Your grasp of the english language is really having an impact on the conversation.

Hypocrite is someone who tells people off for doing the very thing they are doing.

Hater is someone who hates on things.

Trolling is when you do or say something to deliberately get a reaction.

None of which can be applied to my tweet or my post.

You're welcome.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Also: if you think what Kennaugh is "speaking out" against riders, again, comprehension or understanding of what "speaking out" in fact entails is going to damage any hope of finding a common ground in this discussion.