The Hitch said:Why are you feeding him?
Why feed any of them, del, Parky, Spud............
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The Hitch said:Why are you feeding him?
sniper said:As DW says, nobody has claimed Garmin are proactively doping their riders.
We all know Garmin have an internal testing program which is sold as an antidoping program.
We also know from Prentice's leaked email a few years ago that even to the riders and staff members it is sold as an antidoping program.
So no surprise the guys you spoke to say that.
You really think Ryder won that Giro clean and Wiggo got that 4th place clean?
Or could it be that your insider contacts don't know the full story?
The Hitch said:Nope. That would not explain how he gained power while losing weight.
The Hitch said:Nope. That would not explain how he gained power while losing weight.
Benotti69 said:Why feed any of them, del, Parky, Spud............
Benotti69 said:No it isnt and claiming this is stupid.
Plenty post in the clinic that have good contacts inside the sport.
If it was all hot air it would have dissipated long ago. It hasnt.
Most in the clinic are not blind to the sports culture of doping. That has not changed no matter how much JV and Brailsfod love to claim it has. Those posters who claim things have changed cannot point to anything that would've changed this culture. Ferrari and Astana's recent outing proves the sport has not changed. That JV and Brailsford claim it shows they are hiding the obvious truth.
sniper said:yes, you may dismiss it as hearsay.
just stop telling me and others to dismiss it as well.
Dear Wiggo said:I'll accept the team are not doping their riders - but I was under the impression even the most jaded disbeliever held a similar opinion.
What I can't accept is that JV knows for eg Von Hoff is clean, when he saw him 3 times in 2 years. Extrapolate that out to every rider. Mirror confidence in ABP to the internal testing.
I do not accept Ryder won the Giro clean.
pmcg76 said:But Bobbins does? How do you know it is not some guy just winding Bobbins up to see what he will post for a laugh.
I like this claim of 'we know'. We know jack, you can say you believe but you definitely do not 'know'. Nobody on an internet forum 'knows' unless they are directly involved.
This is also laughable saying nobody ever claimed that Garmin have a proactive doping policy.
How many times has it been claimed on here that Girona is a doping hub, thus the reason so many Garmin riders are based there so easier to run a team programme? How many times have you mentioned Girona alone? To now turn around and claim otherwise is just BS.
My insiders have the same view on Ryder winning the Giro as a lot of people, including myself. It is on the very limits of what they believe is possible for a clean rider but wouldn't be surprised if he were doping either.
Lets put it like this, in a race with all the top dogs on top form, Ryder would be somewhere between 10-20 on GC imo. Considering Moncoutie finished 12th at the Tour in 2002 and has a clean rep, then yes its plausible. There are other factors than doping at play also.
two strawmen in one sentence. chapeau.pmcg76 said:...
Maybe they all lie to him or maybe you feel there is a huge conspiracy within his team that he does not know about.
sniper said:can we just get some things straight?
1. so you admit your sources cannot know if garmin riders are doping? (my answer: no they can't)
2. Sky's backdated TUE strikes you as plausible? (my answer: yes it does)
pmcg76 said:Lets see, one source says SKY had a backdated TUE/another sources says there is no doping at Garmin. They are both equally plausible. They are both relying on second hand information that might or might not be true. There is no difference.
Has Bobbins seen a backdated TUE for SKY?
Plus you really need to learn what a strawman is.
thanks, now that's clearly stating your opinion, although it strikes me as a particulrly ill informed opinion, which is odd for someone so knowledgeable on the history of cycling like you.pmcg76 said:Lets see, one source says SKY had a backdated TUE/another sources says there is no doping at Garmin. They are both equally plausible. They are both relying on second hand information that might or might not be true. There is no difference.
Has Bobbins seen a backdated TUE for SKY?
Plus you really need to learn what a strawman is.
The UCI allow retroactive TUEs as well (section 4.3 of the TUE guidelines) and so do every other sports governing body.thehog said:To be fair, UKAD allow "retroactive" TUEs to be applied. So it's entirely likely that it occurred. Depends what the substances were and the motivation behind the action.
sniper said:two strawmen in one sentence. chapeau.
thehog said:To be fair, UKAD allow "retroactive" TUEs to be applied. So it's entirely likely that it occurred. Depends what the substances were and the motivation behind the action.
thehog said:To be fair, UKAD allow "retroactive" TUEs to be applied. So it's entirely likely that it occurred. Depends what the substances were and the motivation behind the action.
that's true. but go back to bobbins post and you'll see it was merely a reply to an interview where Sir Dave was once again playing holier than the pope explicitly suggesting Sky are frontrunners in the fight against doping and an example for other teams.Parker said:The UCI allow retroactive TUEs as well (section 4.3 of the TUE guidelines) and so do every other sports governing body.
That's why unless bobbins reveals a little more of the circumstances it's not really incriminating. The phrase 'backdated TUE' with no context is designed to invite parallels to Armstrong.
Exaclty. Funny to see the bots all over the place denying it happened and suggesting bobbins (or his informants) are liars.King Boonen said:All Bobbins has basically done has said Sky might or might not have broken the rules.
No-one's called him a liar. They have just treated him with scepticism. After all there are lots of people on the internet claiming to be something they're not.sniper said:Exaclty. Funny to see the bots all over the place denying it happened and suggesting bobbins (or his informants) are liars.
sniper said:you'd start with the working assumption that bobbins' allegations are correct
sniper said:that's true. but go back to bobbins post and you'll see it was merely a reply to an interview where Sir Dave was once again playing holier than the pope explicitly suggesting Sky are frontrunners in the fight against doping and an example for other teams.
irrespective of whether the rules were broken with that TUE, bobbins' list did a good job exposing Sir D's hypocricy.
Exaclty. Funny to see the bots all over the place denying it happened and suggesting bobbins (or his informants) are liars.
Beech Mtn said:Page after page questioning or defending bobbins' posts and credibility. Reminds me a little of the scrutiny Race Radio faced in the Lance years.
i knew someone would come back to hunt me with that sockpuppet thing.pmcg76 said:Funny to see you accuse others of hypocrisy when you have been caught lying twice in the last few days.
Firstly claiming you had no idea what a sockpuppet was when you were banned for being a sockpuppet. You joined here in 2010 when Armstrong sockpuppets were everywhere and getting banned, so to claim ignorance is redundant.
this is black-white thinking, i've seen you go down that route more often.Today you said that nobody here claims JV is doping his team, even though you claimed Girona was a doping hub for Garmin numerous times. I think Benotti claims JV is doping his team as have plenty of others over time.