Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Gung Ho Gun]

but was there ever a rider who got caught and then blamed his team doctor?
i've heared this in other sports (i think recently in swimming there was a case) but in cycling i've never heard that.

Leukemans I think

 

[Sciatic]

Perhaps this was mentioned already, but reading the team Sky statement in the CN news, Sky's comments seem to fit the journalistic concept of a "non-denial denial." Sky's statement includes Phrases like "Knaven has no case to answer for" and "a panel of experts . . . Presented to us there is no case for doping" and "it is important to remember that there were no charges brought against him."

These comments are very different than "we know he never doped" and leave the team administrators lots of wiggle room should the current allegations turn out to be true. Sky also places the weight of responsibility for clearing Knaven on the "panel of experts" rather than their own assessment.

 

[MartinGT]

Brailsford could easily be a politician the amount of sh!t that comes out of his mouth. He talks like one in the way he words things for sure.

 

[TailWindHome]

These comments are very different than "we know he never doped" and leave the team administrators lots of wiggle room should the current allegations turn out to be true. Sky also places the weight of responsibility for clearing Knaven on the "panel of experts" rather than their own assessment.

Seems a reasonable position to adopt.

 

[Bexon30]

Brailsford could easily be a politician the amount of sh!t that comes out of his mouth. He talks like one in the way he words things for sure.

There's very much a lot of William Hague about him for sure. Maybe things are slowly turning and people and journo's might start to ask more and more. I mean there comes a point where people get fed up of being force fed bull feed.

Edit: the Froome documentary made me want to rip my tv off the wall. There's certainly a we can't be touched attitude. Just a greater height to fall upon your smug faces when things go t!ts up.

 

[Benotti69]

Seems a reasonable position to adopt.

So it is reasonable to accept his lies in 1998 compared to now?

I dont think it is reasonable and shows the hypocrites Sky are.

 

[Benotti69]

Crankpunk not afraid to call it again with sky

http://crankpunk.com/2015/03/08/sky-screw-the-doping-poodle-again-the-cycling-media-go-meh/

....

Anyway, Sky are full of crap. Can I put it more simply than that? No.

....

It is these blatant failures to fulfill that promise and their inability or unwillingness to look to former riders and doctors who were considered clean rather than these who were not that marks Brailsford as a hypocrite on this issue....

 

[TheSpud]

Crankpunk not afraid to call it again with sky

http://crankpunk.com/2015/03/08/sky-screw-the-doping-poodle-again-the-cycling-media-go-meh/

Yeah, but who are crankpunk? Mainstream media, or just comment site?

 

[bobbins]

BSkyB were told that Barry, Knaeven, Yates, Rogers, Flecha, Julich, De Jongh etc were all potential time bombs but were satisfied to listen to Dave B and believe what they were told by him about them.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that Dave B had previously called Rogers out for being dodgy.

 

[sniper]

BSkyB were told that Barry, Knaeven, Yates, Rogers, Flecha, Julich, De Jongh etc were all potential time bombs but were satisfied to listen to Dave B and believe what they were told by him about them.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that Dave B had previously called Rogers out for being dodgy.

any idea by whom? were there people/fractions within British Cycling who tried to go against Brailsford at any point?

 

[bobbins]

any idea by whom? were there people/fractions within British Cycling who tried to go against Brailsford at any point?

By people who have been involved in cycling for a long time and know the kind of stuff that goes on. BSkyB preferred to listen to Dave B and Fran Millar rather than face reality.

No one at BC went against Dave B as far as I am aware.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-suggests-that-doping-has-gone-underground-with-micro-dosing-and-tue-abuse

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI WorldTour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

 

[JRanton]

TUE Abuse

I found this interesting (from CN's review of the CIRC report):

Corticoids and the abuse of the TUE system

It seems that corticoids are still being used and abused, often masked by requests for Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUE) to UCI Medical staff, with one rider telling the CIRC commission that he believed 90% of TUEs were used for performance-enhancing purposes. TUE abuse is also an issue in women's cycling, with the report saying that some riders turn up at race with "extensive folders of TUE- related documentation."

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI World Tour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

 

[sniper]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-suggests-that-doping-has-gone-underground-with-micro-dosing-and-tue-abuse

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI WorldTour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

hope Benson puts his teeth into this one.

 

[JRanton]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-suggests-that-doping-has-gone-underground-with-micro-dosing-and-tue-abuse

One doctor stated that it was impossible to lose the weight that some riders achieve without assistance, and that the TUE is taken advantage of to enable this practice. He stated that riders use corticoids to "lean out" i.e. to lose weight quickly, and keep it off, without losing power. By way of example he explained that to lose 4kg in 4 weeks by using corticoids would provide a 7% power/weight improvement.

He added that when used in large quantities and in conjunction with other substances, they supported performance gains. Another doctor stated that some quite recent big wins on the UCI WorldTour were as a result, in part, of some members of the team all using corticoids to get their weight down to support the individual who won (who also used the same weight-loss technique). It was reported that this had been a planned approach by that group's management.

I was just about to post the same thing.

That's the most damning thing I've read on Sky (although I think Digger/Dim have referred to this method of losing weight/retaining power earlier in this thread?)

Technically speaking they aren't breaking any rules but it obviously goes completely against the spirit of them. The funny thing is that Sky have claimed they hardly ever use TUE's. A journalist or two should really look into that.

 

[sniper]

I was just about to post the same thing.

That's the most damning thing I've read on Sky (although I think Digger/Dim have referred to this method of losing weight/retaining power earlier in this thread?)

Technically speaking they aren't breaking any rules but it obviously goes completely against the spirit of them. The funny thing is that Sky have claimed they hardly ever use TUE's. A journalist or two should really look into that.

do you need TUEs for OOC use of corticoids?

 

[sniper]

Paul Kimmage asked Brailsford precisely how Peter Kennaugh had managed - by his own admission - to lose five kilograms since he lined up at the Tour de Romandie in late April.

"Through calorie deficit," Brailsford said bluntly, before then expanding slightly on his answer. "Why not speak to Nigel our nutritionist? It's a good question to ask. That is a lot of weight to lose and I totally agree with you. What do we do to get to that kind of weight loss? They're the types of questions that would be legitimate to answer. I don't think there's any great secret in that."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lessons-have-been-learned-says-brailsford

 

[blackcat]

You had a good point until you invented 'Jimmy's tribe' and made yourself guilty of the very thing you were complaining about. Any chance you could list the members of thie tribe?

its facetious and satirical.

empire crew and clinic 12, its never been serious. ask jv, its just about the laffs.

 

[ebandit]

merit

cycling, doping, 'dark secrets'?



dark the cave you've been living in.

you know what 'dark secrets' i refer to are............i know.........

what is the merit of your 'trolling' post?

Mark L

 

[SundayRider]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ilsford-s-zero-tolerance-policy-pressure.html

 

[sniper]

you know what 'dark secrets' i refer to are............i know.........

what is the merit of your 'trolling' post?

Mark L

key words: 'dark secrets', 'evil mastermind', 'conspiracy theory'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ilsford-s-zero-tolerance-policy-pressure.html

has been discussed on the previous pages.

 

[MartinGT]

I still cant see Sky being outed. The Murdoch's are too powerful ?$ talks.

Calorie deficit haha, whatever Dave. Surly if you go into calorie deficit for a long enough your body starts burning muscle as fuel?

 

[blackcat]

I still cant see Sky being outed. The Murdoch's are too powerful ?$ talks.

Calorie deficit haha, whatever Dave. Surly if you go into calorie deficit for a long enough your body starts burning muscle as fuel?

if you go into caloric deficit on every ride, cant peak your form and rise your FTP. instead, multiple hunger flat.

 

[blackcat]

I was just about to post the same thing.

That's the most damning thing I've read on Sky (although I think Digger/Dim have referred to this method of losing weight/retaining power earlier in this thread?)

Technically speaking they aren't breaking any rules but it obviously goes completely against the spirit of them. The funny thing is that Sky have claimed they hardly ever use TUE's. A journalist or two should really look into that.

remember, corticosteroids, cortisone, anti-inflammatoris, corticoids, this class, they WERE ALWAYS AROUND!!!

ceteris paribus, all things being equal. This existed BEFORE, supposedly the anecdote, I reckon apocryphal, Ceccho, Claudio Cechhini gave Riis about 10 kg to lug up a long ascent.

And then Riss drops ~15lbs. Riis, not Riss. he drops the ~15lbs, and even tts better and rides gc.

!!!

So what has come into cycling, and other sports, beyond cortisone? see: Anna Ivanovic. with Wigans and Froome, Ivanovic is one of the calling cards.

maybe Djokovic too.

What has entered sports?

GW501516
Aicar
Lipotropin(AOD-9604)

ofcourse, like all drugs, different people will have different responses. I actually dont buy the Armstrong was a good responder theory. I think p'raps like Riis, he just had the best doctor, and the most comprehensive suite of pharmaceuticals, indeed, a peripatetic cyling pharmacy.

 

[blackcat]

I was just about to post the same thing.

That's the most damning thing I've read on Sky (although I think Digger/Dim have referred to this method of losing weight/retaining power earlier in this thread?)

Technically speaking they aren't breaking any rules but it obviously goes completely against the spirit of them. The funny thing is that Sky have claimed they hardly ever use TUE's. A journalist or two should really look into that.

remember, corticosteroids, cortisone, anti-inflammatoris, corticoids, this class, they WERE ALWAYS AROUND!!!

ceteris paribus, all things being equal. This existed BEFORE, supposedly the anecdote, I reckon apocryphal, Ceccho, Claudio Cechhini gave Riis about 10 kg to lug up a long ascent.

And then Riss drops ~15lbs. Riis, not Riss. he drops the ~15lbs, and even tts better and rides gc.

!!!

So what has come into cycling, and other sports, beyond cortisone? see: Anna Ivanovic. with Wigans and Froome, Ivanovic is one of the calling cards.

maybe Djokovic too.

What has entered sports?

GW501516
Aicar
Lipotropin(AOD-9604)

ofcourse, like all drugs, different people will have different responses. I actually dont buy the Armstrong was a good responder theory. I think p'raps like Riis, he just had the best doctor, and the most comprehensive suite of pharmaceuticals, indeed, a peripatetic cyling pharmacy.

NB. caveat: Riis could do it buy simple means, caloric. But he never got Wigans/Froome/ lean, and in cycling equivalent, Djokovic/Ivanovic lean.

imagine if they could give Ullrich these peptides and pharmaceutical advantages to return to his 97 weight/lean(ness)