Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Sorry to interlude in this little lovely tete a tete, but it does say "I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK"......If the guy said it why argue it?

If I had a website I'd say I was a researcher from Glasgow, because it would be pointless to list where I was from and how I ended up here on a simple blog one liner.


My main point was that if he had bothered to spend maybe a couple of minutes on Google he would have found a much better link to Sky to accuse Dr Burnley, rather than the usual "he's from the UK" rubbish. You'll notice he studied in Brighton if you search elsewhere so could in fact be from anywhere.

The fact that someone who touts himself as a lawyer didn't even spend the 5 seconds it would take to check the information he was using for the baseless accusation was correct is quite amusing to me.

 

[Afrank]

Time to move on I think.

 

[neineinei]

http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/12040/9918360/tour-de-france-sir-dave-brailsford-wants-uci-experts-installed-in-teams

"It is not possible to prove a negative. I can't. But I can work with the UCI, independent experts.

"I would like the UCI to invest in individuals and put them into each team 24/7. That would prove we do nothing. I'm ready to do it."

So how much will that cost? Nevermind, it isn't meant to happen anyway.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/12040/9918360/tour-de-france-sir-dave-brailsford-wants-uci-experts-installed-in-teams

"It is not possible to prove a negative. I can't. But I can work with the UCI, independent experts.

"I would like the UCI to invest in individuals and put them into each team 24/7. That would prove we do nothing. I'm ready to do it."

So how much will that cost? Nevermind, it isn't meant to happen anyway.

Costs would be minimal, teams already pay for lots of doctors and experts so they can easily replace one and pay the money to a central pot so they don't pay their wages.

It's a good suggestion, as long as it isn't the UCI who organise it. Should be organised by an independent doping commission, they need to be rotated through the teams each year and report only to that commission with "access all areas".

It still can't prove a negative, but it would be a step in the right direction.

 

[TheGame]

Re: Re:

Since almost none of the Brits seem to want to do it (like their US peers during the Armstrong era), others must...

The Brits and Irish did all the work on Armstrong. Muricans job to take down Sky

 

[blackcat]

Froome would be around 67/66 kgs or 146-148 lbs.

thing is, i dont think he would be any less weight on day 21.

when has a rider gone into the Tour, and come out at the same weight, as they went in three weeks ago? and losing ~1lb does not count. When riders have lost about ~5lbs on average after the three weeks, but vroome is the same weight, this in itself, NOT NORMAL

 

[TomLPC]

Re: Sky

Odds on favourite to Landis all over Sky?

I'd put the Little Man in the Big Motorhome at 2/1 favourite, with Kennaugh and Cound just behind, all three should probably be doing some more thinking and a lot less acting. Wiggo could be a good outside bet, he has post-career ennui written all over him. Brailsford and Dawg will go down with the ship, playing the basoon and violins while Thomas and Stannard steal the last row boat, Luke Rowe staring out at them looking forlorn.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Re:

Froome would be around 67/66 kgs or 148-150 lbs.

thing is, i dont think he would be any less weight on day 21.

when has a rider gone into the Tour, and come out at the same weight, as they went in three weeks ago? and losing ~1lb does not count. When riders have lost about ~5lbs on average after the three weeks, but vroome is the same weight, this in itself, NOT NORMAL

I remember watching an Indurain documentary years ago in which they talked about that. The team doctor basically said that even though they eat 5,000 calories of food, it's almost impossible to fulfill the daily caloric requirement for a cyclist (I think he said something around 6,000-7,000 calories a day) because they would spend/waste too much time either digesting the food or going to the bathroom to get rid of the digested food. Hence weight loss was a given.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I remember watching an Indurain documentary years ago in which they talked about that. The team doctor basically said that even though they eat 5,000 calories of food, it's almost impossible to fulfill the daily caloric requirement for a cyclist (I think he said something around 6,000-7,000 calories a day) because they would spend/waste too much time either digesting the food or going to the bathroom to get rid of the digested food. Hence weight loss was a given.

except when the riders like Horner, vroome, Wigans, even Nibali, Rolland, have already lost the weight on a cocktail of lipotropin, AICAR, GW, cortisone, clen, hgh, and other peptides. A cocktail that was not previously available 5 years ago.

they might be able to lose ~1lb, but any catabolic response will start to render vital organs as well as other red tissue like muscle!

but the skinny guys from this cocktail, or more than the Rasmussen and Hamilton physique. This cocktail of lipotropin, renders red-tissue. even quasi functional tissue, like your triceps and arms, which are still vital for the posture of riding. They are rendered. the muscled is wasted. And it is not wasted away like you suffer from anorexia. It has been rendered because of the biochemistry and pituitary gland has been tweaked

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

Sorry to interlude in this little lovely tete a tete, but it does say "I’m an exercise physiologist, lecturer and researcher from Aberystwyth, West Wales, UK"......If the guy said it why argue it?

If I had a website I'd say I was a researcher from Glasgow, because it would be pointless to list where I was from and how I ended up here on a simple blog one liner.


My main point was that if he had bothered to spend maybe a couple of minutes on Google he would have found a much better link to Sky to accuse Dr Burnley, rather than the usual "he's from the UK" rubbish. You'll notice he studied in Brighton if you search elsewhere so could in fact be from anywhere.

The fact that someone who touts himself as a lawyer didn't even spend the 5 seconds it would take to check the information he was using for the baseless accusation was correct is quite amusing to me.

Cool story bro.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

A view on it all from another scientist:

https://drmarkburnley.wordpress.com/2015/07/19/data-transparency-in-cycling-necessary-utopian-and-a-complete-can-of-worms/

I found his "View" very non-committal and fence-sitty.

His view is most clearly expressed in a comment further down the page:

Yes, hard to tell a domestique’s strengths because they are a domestique who may be told how to race, being a junior team member. The incremental aspect of Froome’s career is that it took 2+ years to become a GC contender. With his frame he was always going to be a climber.

So it's a change of team orders or line-up to explain Froome's sudden change.

You know.

Sir Dave Brailsford (2010-July 2011): Now Chris, I want you to ride like crap
Chris Froome: ok boss, will do
SDB (Vuelta 2011) : Chris, I want you to beat Wiggo now, but be his domestique for the first 8 stages.
Chris Froome: ok boss, will do



Why not do this back in 2010?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Even our mate Alex chimes in with his usual, cheery, "nothing you do will ever catch a doper" narrative:

Alex Simmons permalink
July 20, 2015 12:29 am

Sky have used Stages power meters since 2014. That data will likely be as un-useful as the randomly variable power estimates made from climbing speeds.

 

[biker jk]

Re:

Even our mate Alex chimes in with his usual, cheery, "nothing you do will ever catch a doper" narrative:

Alex Simmons permalink
July 20, 2015 12:29 am

Sky have used Stages power meters since 2014. That data will likely be as un-useful as the randomly variable power estimates made from climbing speeds.

"randomly variable"? I thought the power estimates were apparently always overestimated due to constant tailwinds, etc? Are these the same randomly variable estimates that were within a watt of the actual power generated?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Even our mate Alex chimes in with his usual, cheery, "nothing you do will ever catch a doper" narrative:

Alex Simmons permalink
July 20, 2015 12:29 am

Sky have used Stages power meters since 2014. That data will likely be as un-useful as the randomly variable power estimates made from climbing speeds.

"randomly variable"? I thought the power estimates were apparently always overestimated due to constant tailwinds, etc? Are these the same randomly variable estimates that were within a watt of the actual power generated?

One and the same, yes. From multiple power files from multiple riders.

They should choose lotto numbers, the completely random alignment with reality is unreal.

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Sky

Do you think he should know it off the top of his head?

This is a bloke who has a fierce reputation of knowing the numbers of everything. Not leaving any stone unturned for world domination of cycling. Yet he doesn't know the weight of his number one road rider?

If he didn't want it to become common knowledge, he would have been better saying something along the lines of 'Yes I do know the weight Chris' and left it at that. If the interviewer asked for the weight he could have said he didn't want to disclose it due to the recent video of Ventoux and how it could be open for interpretation.

Thats all he had to do. Instead he come across as someone who continually BS about the marginal gains and no stone unturned BS.

There was a GCN video of either the Giro of the Tour where they visited the Hotel of Lotto. Out in the corridor was a little store of food the riders could get access to. Haribo, cereal etc. Next to that was some scales the riders could use........I suppose thats why they arent winning on GC, total amateurs eh Walsh?

 

[SeriousSam]

It was an obvious Brailsfraud lie. The only way out after he failed to anticipate that he'd get asked what Froome's weight is after assuring everyone the internet pseudo scientists have bogus estimates for his weight. Quite hilarious

 

[MartinGT]

It just pi$$es me off the attitude Sky have.

They see ex-dopers as legends (Wiggins with Museeuw, Pantani et al Thomas with Armstrong etc) until one of these speaks out because its gone beyond stupid.

Then they are a disgrace, filthy etc.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Since almost none of the Brits seem to want to do it (like their US peers during the Armstrong era), others must...

The Brits and Irish did all the work on Armstrong. Muricans job to take down Sky

Dim, what role did the Brits have in taking down Armstrong?

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

Since almost none of the Brits seem to want to do it (like their US peers during the Armstrong era), others must...

The Brits and Irish did all the work on Armstrong. Muricans job to take down Sky

Dim, what role did the Brits have in taking down Armstrong?

The Sunday Times.

 

[vedrafjord]

Well they let Kimmage go so they weren't much use. Ireland have Kimmage, Walsh, Emma O'Reilly, but we also gave the world Fat Pat so it all balances out.

In fairness though, the cycling equivalent of the Watergate myth seems to have happened. With Watergate, people have this idea via All The President's men etc that Nixon was brought down by intrepid reporters but in reality those reporters were mostly one step behind following leaks from the FBI, Dept. of Justice, the grand jury etc.

Similarly with Armstrong, the real break was when the Justice Dept started frightening people into testifying. Even though that investigation ultimately went nowhere, it got riders to talk and having already talked to Justice, they were more forthcoming about talking to USADA.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

You can't make SKY up...

Sir Dave "But I can work with the UCI, independent experts."

what? like Armstrong worked with Vrijman?


If nothing else, he can take the pi** with the best of them...

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Sky

You can't make SKY up...

Sir Dave "But I can work with the UCI, independent experts."

what? like Armstrong worked with Vrijman?


If nothing else, he can take the pi** with the best of them...

How should he go about proving they are clean?

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

You can't make SKY up...

Sir Dave "But I can work with the UCI, independent experts."

what? like Armstrong worked with Vrijman?


If nothing else, he can take the pi** with the best of them...

In fact, are the UCI not already embedded with Ollie???

previous mission...go to Columbia my son...

if you didn't laugh you would cry...

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

You can't make SKY up...

Sir Dave "But I can work with the UCI, independent experts."

what? like Armstrong worked with Vrijman?


If nothing else, he can take the pi** with the best of them...

How should he go about proving they are clean?

they could use some of their budget to help the UCI buy more testing equipment....oh...wait a minute

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

You can't make SKY up...

Sir Dave "But I can work with the UCI, independent experts."

what? like Armstrong worked with Vrijman?


If nothing else, he can take the pi** with the best of them...

How should he go about proving they are clean?

no but seriously ....its easy, tell us his weight now and release as much physiological data pre vuelta 2011 as he can...simples...very cheap as well....