Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dear Wiggo]

The total absence of Porte's name in that article speaks VOLUMES about Brailsford's management style. Petty and small-minded, reminiscent of Vaughters.

Revolting.

 

[blackcat]

no respect for LRP? wtf?

as Cartman would say in inimitable tones, respect mah authoritar

 

[blackcat]

Re:

The total absence of Porte's name in that article speaks VOLUMES about Brailsford's management style. Petty and small-minded, reminiscent of Vaughters.

Revolting.

yeah but did LRP get his blood poured down the toilet like the Hog did not Landis' blood during the Tour?

its apocryphal, but run with it like a doped Seb Coe, run, run like the wind Sebastian

 

[coinneach]

Re:

So Froome can lose tonnes of weight but maintain his power, or even increase it. Nicholas Roche is asked to maintain his weight to keep his power. I don't know how the skybots manage to keep up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/27/dave-brailsford-team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france-2015-win?CMP=twt_gu

+1 And why doesn't Fotheringham ask the obvious question?
Let's hope other journalists with more guts follow this quote up.

And to reiterate earlier posters, the sooner we have independent weighing of riders, the better......jockeys & F1 drivers do it

 

[simoni]

Re:

The total absence of Porte's name in that article speaks VOLUMES about Brailsford's management style. Petty and small-minded, reminiscent of Vaughters.

Revolting.

So it has nothing to do with whoever wrote the article then? Or whoever edited it?

Brailsford may well be a knob (and there's some fairly clear evidence that he isn't what the Brit media paint him as) but the amount of 2+2=100000 on here is just as "revolting".

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

So Froome can lose tonnes of weight but maintain his power, or even increase it. Nicholas Roche is asked to maintain his weight to keep his power. I don't know how the skybots manage to keep up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/27/dave-brailsford-team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france-2015-win?CMP=twt_gu

+1 And why doesn't Fotheringham ask the obvious question?
Let's hope other journalists with more guts follow this quote up.

And to reiterate earlier posters, the sooner we have independent weighing of riders, the better......jockeys & F1 drivers do it

That's only because there are weight rules that aren't applicable to Cycling

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

The total absence of Porte's name in that article speaks VOLUMES about Brailsford's management style. Petty and small-minded, reminiscent of Vaughters.

Revolting.

He was talking about how some of the support riders had been variable - that wouldn't include Porte since after Froome dropped out he became #1 ...

 

[Ventoux Boar]

Re: Sky

Calibration -

'Revolting': words in a newspaper
'lies': punching & spitting on a rider

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

The total absence of Porte's name in that article speaks VOLUMES about Brailsford's management style. Petty and small-minded, reminiscent of Vaughters.

Revolting.

He was talking about how some of the support riders had been variable - that wouldn't include Porte since after Froome dropped out he became #1 ...

Yeah the article is actually about this year's TdF, despite the introduction mentioning the 2014 Tour.

Porte was variable this year.
Froome won.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

The total absence of Porte's name in that article speaks VOLUMES about Brailsford's management style. Petty and small-minded, reminiscent of Vaughters.

Revolting.

He was talking about how some of the support riders had been variable - that wouldn't include Porte since after Froome dropped out he became #1 ...

Yeah the article is actually about this year's TdF, despite the introduction mentioning the 2014 Tour.

Porte was variable this year.
Froome won.

My apologies - I got side tracked by the "This time last year we drove six hours to Paris, phones off" line and failed to spot we had jumped back to this year later in the article when talking about certain riders. Who knows though, maybe he was happy with Porte? Maybe it wasn't worth dwelling on his performance as he is leaving.

The comment about Poels stopping for a p1ss in the wrong place made me chuckle ...

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

I fundamentally disagree that there is large volume of empirical evidence against Frome (in strong contrast to other riders in the past). All arguments that I have seen are grounded in an extrapolation of what has happened in the past to provide an explanation of the present. While I agree there are solid grounds for those doubts, the reasoning appears largely analytical in nature. Anyone that claims they 'know' Froome is doping should probably tone down the hyperbole, as it is clearly a claim that can't be made.

Climbing times equal or better with the greats of the epo era is hardly a mere extrapolation of what has happened in the past to provide an explanation of the present; epistemically, it provides far more than merely solid grounds for doubt.

We know what it takes for a human being on a bicycle to ascend at that speed. We know. It is good, safe, reliable knowledge. Very precise. The doctors know. The formula is there. It works. This is simply irrefutable.

The hyperbolic moment is wondering about the meaning of this.

The epistemological moment is simply recognising what is so.

 

[Handy Bendy Ghandi]

Re: Re:

So Froome can lose tonnes of weight but maintain his power, or even increase it. Nicholas Roche is asked to maintain his weight to keep his power. I don't know how the skybots manage to keep up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/27/dave-brailsford-team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france-2015-win?CMP=twt_gu

+1 And why doesn't Fotheringham ask the obvious question?
Let's hope other journalists with more guts follow this quote up.

And to reiterate earlier posters, the sooner we have independent weighing of riders, the better......jockeys & F1 drivers do it

Personally, I think it would be far more useful if the team car to rider radio comms were made freely available (just like pit to car in F1)………….then we’d all be able to hear Brailsford talking to Froome:

“Slow down Chris your figures are looking abnormal…..”
“OK, you can speed up again now…….”
“No, no…..too fast….slow down again……and try to look like you’re suffering……”
“Oops, watch that cup of p!ss………pour some water over your head to wash it off….and don’t think I’m hugging you after the stage Sonny Jim……..damn, those poor podium girls have to kiss you on the cheek…..”
“OK…..your average W/Kg figure is way down now…….you can hammer it to the finish…”

And so on, and so on……….

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The should open up the ABP too. Nothing to lose. All anonymised. Do a SETI on BP analysis and help them narrow down suspect profiles.

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

So Froome can lose tonnes of weight but maintain his power, or even increase it. Nicholas Roche is asked to maintain his weight to keep his power. I don't know how the skybots manage to keep up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/27/dave-brailsford-team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france-2015-win?CMP=twt_gu

+1 And why doesn't Fotheringham ask the obvious question?
Let's hope other journalists with more guts follow this quote up.

And to reiterate earlier posters, the sooner we have independent weighing of riders, the better......jockeys & F1 drivers do it

That's only because there are weight rules that aren't applicable to Cycling

We need weight passport!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

So Froome can lose tonnes of weight but maintain his power, or even increase it. Nicholas Roche is asked to maintain his weight to keep his power. I don't know how the skybots manage to keep up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/27/dave-brailsford-team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france-2015-win?CMP=twt_gu

+1 And why doesn't Fotheringham ask the obvious question?
Let's hope other journalists with more guts follow this quote up.

And to reiterate earlier posters, the sooner we have independent weighing of riders, the better......jockeys & F1 drivers do it

Personally, I think it would be far more useful if the team car to rider radio comms were made freely available (just like pit to car in F1)………….then we’d all be able to hear Brailsford talking to Froome:

“Slow down Chris your figures are looking abnormal…..”
“OK, you can speed up again now…….”
“No, no…..too fast….slow down again……and try to look like you’re suffering……”
“Oops, watch that cup of p!ss………pour some water over your head to wash it off….and don’t think I’m hugging you after the stage Sonny Jim……..damn, those poor podium girls have to kiss you on the cheek…..”
“OK…..your average W/Kg figure is way down now…….you can hammer it to the finish…”

And so on, and so on……….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhCMADl_nY

Winner winner chicken dinner!!

Going to appropriate your suggestion for twitterlols.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

riddle me this Skysters, how does vroom lose ~6kg from this physique? he is already no bodyfat, no nonfunctional tissue, 30thousand miles a year professional. All functional muscle. Your control sample, is everyone who has been a pro in the last 50 years, even Rasmussen.

How does vroom become the thinnest ever pro when he was not that naturally, and he was doing 30k mile a year as a pro.

calorie deficit doesnt cut it Skysters

Its drugs

Many things I would have said:

• 
  Better diet (and yes calorie deficit to a certain extent).
  Better overall training for conditioning and fitness.
  Better targeted training of specific muscle groups - ie hit the legs, but let the arms go. Focus the weight on the power areas.
  OOC cortisone.

None of which are illegal ...

And, no, I wont bow to your direction that calorie deficit wont cut it. I've seen what calorie deficit can do (good and bad) so I will quote it above.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

So Froome can lose tonnes of weight but maintain his power, or even increase it. Nicholas Roche is asked to maintain his weight to keep his power. I don't know how the skybots manage to keep up.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/27/dave-brailsford-team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france-2015-win?CMP=twt_gu

+1 And why doesn't Fotheringham ask the obvious question?
Let's hope other journalists with more guts follow this quote up.

And to reiterate earlier posters, the sooner we have independent weighing of riders, the better......jockeys & F1 drivers do it

That's only because there are weight rules that aren't applicable to Cycling

We need weight passport!

Well the F1 rules are minimum weight including the driver. Not sure how that would work in cycling. In F1 the driver is a pittance compared with the car, in cycling its pretty much the reverse. In horse racing the jockey weight is probably about 1/6th of the Horse (guessing, but much much different than F1). It would either preclude tall riders, or encourage eating disorders (like horse racing), or worse.

 

[blackcat]

hey spud

irish potato famine

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

hey spud

irish potato famine

??

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

riddle me this Skysters, how does vroom lose ~6kg from this physique? he is already no bodyfat, no nonfunctional tissue, 30thousand miles a year professional. All functional muscle. Your control sample, is everyone who has been a pro in the last 50 years, even Rasmussen.

How does vroom become the thinnest ever pro when he was not that naturally, and he was doing 30k mile a year as a pro.

calorie deficit doesnt cut it Skysters

Its drugs

Many things I would have said:

• 
  Better diet (and yes calorie deficit to a certain extent).
  Better overall training for conditioning and fitness.
  Better targeted training of specific muscle groups - ie hit the legs, but let the arms go. Focus the weight on the power areas.
  OOC cortisone.

None of which are illegal ...

And, no, I wont bow to your direction that calorie deficit wont cut it. I've seen what calorie deficit can do (good and bad) so I will quote it above.

Other than OOC cortisone, not sure which of those things every team hasn't been doing since...forever. Literally all of that is covered in the Eddy B. book I read in 1989 (printed 1985). Better how? Specifically? Why do you believe Sky can just magically do it better when people have been optimizing this for as long as I've been in the sport? Curious.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

riddle me this Skysters, how does vroom lose ~6kg from this physique? he is already no bodyfat, no nonfunctional tissue, 30thousand miles a year professional. All functional muscle. Your control sample, is everyone who has been a pro in the last 50 years, even Rasmussen.

How does vroom become the thinnest ever pro when he was not that naturally, and he was doing 30k mile a year as a pro.

calorie deficit doesnt cut it Skysters

Its drugs

Many things I would have said:

• 
  Better diet (and yes calorie deficit to a certain extent).
  Better overall training for conditioning and fitness.
  Better targeted training of specific muscle groups - ie hit the legs, but let the arms go. Focus the weight on the power areas.
  OOC cortisone.

None of which are illegal ...

And, no, I wont bow to your direction that calorie deficit wont cut it. I've seen what calorie deficit can do (good and bad) so I will quote it above.

Other than OOC cortisone, not sure which of those things every team hasn't been doing since...forever. Literally all of that is covered in the Eddy B. book I read in 1989 (printed 1985). Better how? Specifically? Why do you believe Sky can just magically do it better when people have been optimizing this for as long as I've been in the sport? Curious.

I agree on your first sentence, and actually I would add in the OOC cortisone - I thought that was the choice of the French (and other teams)?

You say why are Sky better? Well, the 'riddle' above was the comparison between Barloworld and now - that is what I was responding to. Barloword - hardly a big budget team. I would expect Sky to p1ss all over them in terms of budget, training, coaches, and know how - so yes, thats why they would be some way ahead. I would imagine they are (much much) more disciplined (certainly than Barlow) and can (and do) organise / manage the team as a team rather than letting their riders just ride / train when they wanted. Thats where I was coming from in the comment above. I dont disagree that other (ProTour) teams are doing some / all of this - but that wasnt the comparison that was asked for.

 

[Stilletto]

What did tiernan-Locke get suspended for ?
Any news on whistle blowing on the team, but I suppose once a grass no more jobs in the boys club that seems to be the le dopage ?
Anyone know who is the "cleanest" team in peloton that meaning no riders caught or suspended ?
But maybe that just means they are the best at hiding it ?

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

What did tiernan-Locke get suspended for ?
Any news on whistle blowing on the team, but I suppose once a grass no more jobs in the boys club that seems to be the le dopage ?
Anyone know who is the "cleanest" team in peloton that meaning no riders caught or suspended ?
But maybe that just means they are the best at hiding it ?

JTL- spurious blood values (during his time with Net App).

There are no whistle blowing stories on Sky to the press at all (at least as far as we know).

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

riddle me this Skysters, how does vroom lose ~6kg from this physique? he is already no bodyfat, no nonfunctional tissue, 30thousand miles a year professional. All functional muscle. Your control sample, is everyone who has been a pro in the last 50 years, even Rasmussen.

How does vroom become the thinnest ever pro when he was not that naturally, and he was doing 30k mile a year as a pro.

calorie deficit doesnt cut it Skysters

Its drugs

Many things I would have said:

• 
  Better diet (and yes calorie deficit to a certain extent).
  Better overall training for conditioning and fitness.
  Better targeted training of specific muscle groups - ie hit the legs, but let the arms go. Focus the weight on the power areas.
  OOC cortisone.

None of which are illegal ...

And, no, I wont bow to your direction that calorie deficit wont cut it. I've seen what calorie deficit can do (good and bad) so I will quote it above.

Other than OOC cortisone, not sure which of those things every team hasn't been doing since...forever. Literally all of that is covered in the Eddy B. book I read in 1989 (printed 1985). Better how? Specifically? Why do you believe Sky can just magically do it better when people have been optimizing this for as long as I've been in the sport? Curious.

I agree, and actually I would add in the OOC cortisone - I thought that was the choice of the French (and other teams)?

You say why are Sky better? Well, the 'riddle' above was the comparison between Barloworld and now - that is what I was responding to. Barloword - hardly a big budget team. I would expect Sky to p1ss all over them in terms of budget, training, coaches, and know how - so yes, thats why they would be some way ahead. I would imagine they are (much much) more disciplined (certainly than Barlow) and can (and do) organise / manage the team as a team rather than letting their riders just ride / train when they wanted. Thats where I was coming from in the comment above. I dont disagree that other (ProTour) teams are doing some / all of this - but that wasnt the comparison that was asked for.

Yeah, I get the specific comparison, I just don't get why people think that budget = better training. Maybe better nutrition and support? Maybe? More disciplined? Why? That's completely about team culture not budget. Why assume Barloworld "let their riders just ride / train when they wanted?" That seems comically unlikely. Is there some supporting information which points to any of this? Chris Froome claims in his book to ride/train the way he wants, not the way Sky wants.

I think Sky puts this out there to explain the unexplainable and people just believe it because they are looking for a reason to believe. I see no reason to believe it myself unless there are some corroborating facts. How did Wiggins become so great? Garmin had bad training? How does it explain riders sucking for a long time on team Sky, then all of a sudden becoming outstanding, all at different times? Sky training improvements are random and only take hold on certain people at certain times? I'm struggling to see why people believe this stuff...

 

[blackcat]

I coulda been a champion...





... on Team Sky