Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Cannibal72]

Re:

raceradio tweeted

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

In a sport so obsessed with weight why does one team race on bikes that are two pounds heavier than what other Pro teams ride?

Hinting a motors in Sky bikes?

Trail for the promised Vayer/Seppelt revelation? Although their expertise seems to be in pharmaceutical doping...

 

[Irondan]

Re:

raceradio tweeted

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

In a sport so obsessed with weight why does one team race on bikes that are two pounds heavier than what other Pro teams ride?

Hinting a motors in Sky bikes?

Maybe, but doubtful.

I would be surprised if RR thinks there are motors in the entire team Sky bike fleet.

That's a conspiracy that would go well above and beyond any doping conspiracy to date.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I think the answer to RR's tweet is pretty obviously that Sky wants to make the races interesting for the fans because no other team has the marginal gains philosophy of Sky, making them all obsolete dinosaurs compared to Sky's awesome ingenuity.

At least hire a swimming coach, people. And warm down. For the love of all that is holy, learn to warm down.

Amen.

But seriously, Pinarellos aren't the best choice for motors in terms of weight, as their frames are already heavier than the offerings of Trek, Specialized, etc. I prefer the Pinas though, but they're a bit heavier to start.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

raceradio tweeted

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

In a sport so obsessed with weight why does one team race on bikes that are two pounds heavier than what other Pro teams ride?

Hinting a motors in Sky bikes?

Maybe, but doubtful.

I would be surprised if RR thinks there are motors in the entire team Sky bike fleet.

That's a conspiracy that would go well above and beyond any doping conspiracy to date.

i dont doubt that teams will try anything to win and i mean anything.

 

[Benotti69]

it could be he is telling us this in order to point out that a team riding heavier bikes is still winning, so maybe it aint the marginal gains that Sky spout if other teams are riding lighter bikes......

 

[blackcat]

Re:

raceradio tweeted

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

In a sport so obsessed with weight why does one team race on bikes that are two pounds heavier than what other Pro teams ride?

Hinting a motors in Sky bikes?

and might be good to see the bike manufacturers and their respective seat tubes and downtubes and bottom brackets and which ones potentially appeal to the team's manager

Anyone taken a cross section of the Pina frame?

piñatrella?

 

[thehog]

Re:

I think the answer to RR's tweet is pretty obviously that Sky wants to make the races interesting for the fans because no other team has the marginal gains philosophy of Sky, making them all obsolete dinosaurs compared to Sky's awesome ingenuity.

At least hire a swimming coach, people. And warm down. For the love of all that is holy, learn to warm down.

Amen.

But seriously, Pinarellos aren't the best choice for motors in terms of weight, as their frames are already heavier than the offerings of Trek, Specialized, etc. I prefer the Pinas though, but they're a bit heavier to start.

The 0.9kgs makes a huge difference on descents adding additional momentum over other riders, this counteracts the velocity by 0.67654 meters per minute on an accent

Good grief, could there be a bigger non-story, pretending to know something which is actually nothing.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

it could be he is telling us this in order to point out that a team riding heavier bikes is still winning, so maybe it aint the marginal gains that Sky spout if other teams are riding lighter bikes......

This would be my guess at what RR's hinting at.

 

[samhocking]

GCN weighed Sky's bike and it was lighter than some, heaver than others. Most pros are between 7.1 to 7.5. Sky's with C50s coming in 7.2kg Nibalis was 7.13kg. Very few are riding near 6.8kg apart from the very small climbers frames.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re:

raceradio tweeted

Race Radio @TheRaceRadio

In a sport so obsessed with weight why does one team race on bikes that are two pounds heavier than what other Pro teams ride?

They have their own personal and RR verified tailwinds to help them out?

LOL. The guy who was afraid talk about Sky's obvious doping would soften feelings toward Lance is now making his own insinuations about Sky. Betsy ain't gonna be happy about this.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Re:

GCN weighed Sky's bike and it was lighter than some, heaver than others. Most pros are between 7.1 to 7.5. Sky's with C50s coming in 7.2kg Nibalis was 7.13kg. Very few are riding near 6.8kg apart from the very small climbers frames.

What are you talking about? Sky doesn't ride C50s. They ride Pinarellos, not Colnagos. And it's the C60 now.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re:

GCN weighed Sky's bike and it was lighter than some, heaver than others. Most pros are between 7.1 to 7.5. Sky's with C50s coming in 7.2kg Nibalis was 7.13kg. Very few are riding near 6.8kg apart from the very small climbers frames.

Of course Sky can be trusted to not put any effort into deceiving a third party who they know will weigh their bikes.

FYI, the open mould Chinese frame I built up with little thought about its weight came in at under 6.8kg. The frame+fork+seatpost+shipping from China+PayPal fees came to a whopping total of $653.35.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

it could be he is telling us this in order to point out that a team riding heavier bikes is still winning, so maybe it aint the marginal gains that Sky spout if other teams are riding lighter bikes......

Its idea of a team being competitive with bikes 2 pounds heavier, is nowhere near as ridiculous as the idea of a team destroying the peloton like sky have done, without doping.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

GCN weighed Sky's bike and it was lighter than some, heaver than others. Most pros are between 7.1 to 7.5. Sky's with C50s coming in 7.2kg Nibalis was 7.13kg. Very few are riding near 6.8kg apart from the very small climbers frames.

Of course Sky can be trusted to not put any effort into deceiving a third party who they know will weigh their bikes.

FYI, the open mould Chinese frame I built up with little thought about its weight came in at under 6.8kg. The frame+fork+seatpost+shipping from China+PayPal fees came to a whopping total of $653.35.

Watch the videos. Nearly all of the mechanics and riders thought their bikes were around 200kg lighter than they actually were when GCN weighed them live in front of the camera with a pair of scales. Of course if you believe Sky were the only team to deceive GCN somehow in what looks a pretty fun, random walk around a stage start asking various riders and mechanics to guess the weight and then weight the bike, then there's not much discussion to be had. Nearly all the teams are riding around 3-400g heavier than they really need to. They could all be built to 6.8kg without much problem including the F8.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

GCN weighed Sky's bike and it was lighter than some, heaver than others. Most pros are between 7.1 to 7.5. Sky's with C50s coming in 7.2kg Nibalis was 7.13kg. Very few are riding near 6.8kg apart from the very small climbers frames.

What are you talking about? Sky doesn't ride C50s. They ride Pinarellos, not Colnagos. And it's the C60 now.

2015. Watch the videos.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

GCN weighed Sky's bike and it was lighter than some, heaver than others. Most pros are between 7.1 to 7.5. Sky's with C50s coming in 7.2kg Nibalis was 7.13kg. Very few are riding near 6.8kg apart from the very small climbers frames.

What are you talking about? Sky doesn't ride C50s. They ride Pinarellos, not Colnagos. And it's the C60 now.

hi Moose. the C50s are the tubular carbon shimano wheels.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

it could be he is telling us this in order to point out that a team riding heavier bikes is still winning, so maybe it aint the marginal gains that Sky spout if other teams are riding lighter bikes......

Its idea of a team being competitive with bikes 2 pounds heavier, is nowhere near as ridiculous as the idea of a team destroying the peloton like sky have done, without doping.

Where did anyone say 2 pounds? If the figures quoted are right the bikes may be overweight by 0.4kg with these wheels and that is just 0.89 pounds. Not exactly massive.

 

[Arrowfarm]

Re: Re:

it could be he is telling us this in order to point out that a team riding heavier bikes is still winning, so maybe it aint the marginal gains that Sky spout if other teams are riding lighter bikes......

Its idea of a team being competitive with bikes 2 pounds heavier, is nowhere near as ridiculous as the idea of a team destroying the peloton like sky have done, without doping.

Where did anyone say 2 pounds? If the figures quoted are right the bikes may be overweight by 0.4kg with these wheels and that is just 0.89 pounds. Not exactly massive.

Not exactly marginal gains either.

 

[samhocking]

2015
Emanuel Buchmann - Argon - Argon 18 Gallum - 6.85kg
Manuel Senni - BMC - BMC Time Machine - 6.91kg
Aberto Losada - Katusha - Canyon Aeroad CF SLX - 6.94kg
Estaban Chaves Orica - Scott Addict - 6.98kg
Gianluca Brambilla - Ettix - Specialized Tarmac - 7.01kg
Alejandro Valverde - Movistar - Canyon Aeroroad CF SLX - 7.06kg
Matt Goss - MTN - Cervelo S5 - 7.11kg
Vincenzo Nibali - Astana - Specialized Tarmac - 7.13kg
Mario Costa - Lampre - Merida Reacto - 7.20kg
Luca Mesgec - Giant - Giant Propel - 7.30kg


2016
Alex Dowsett - Moviestar - Canyon - 7.09kg
Mark Renshaw - Dimension Data - Cervelo S5 - 7.09kg
Koen De Kort - Giant - Giant Propel - 7.25kg
Christian Knees - Sky - Pinarello Dogma F8 - 7.38kg
Daniele Bennati - Tinkoff - Specialised Tarmac - 7.40kg
Philippe Gilbert - BMC - BMC Time Machine - 7.42kg
Matt Goss - One Pro - Factor - 7.78kg

 

[PremierAndrew]

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

Plus the weight of the motor.

 

[samhocking]

Re:

If 6.8kg is the minimum UCI weight for bikes, then why don't pretty much all climbers have a bike that weighs 6.8kg?
It's clearly achievable

I remember in the 2013 Tour, at the Alpe D'huez finish, Riblon, Froome, Contador (both bikes), van Garderen, and Rodríguez all had their bikes weighed as it was announced during the middle of the stage to the teams their bikes would be taken at the finish line. UCI confirmed all 6 bikes were bang on the 6.8kg weight limit. Once you switch to the shallower profile climbing wheels for the mountains, maybe switch a few components to lighter versions, most of those bike around the more usual 7.1-7.3kg at Abu-Dabi would be nearing 6.8kg pretty easily just from equipment choice come a Grand Tour mountain stage. Some teams play off heavier/lighter equipment choices to reach 6.8kg limit like Sky, Tinkoff, Astana where aero frames are heavier compared to the teams like Argon, Katusha, Movistar, Lampre on the lightest production bikes at the moment, but not so much aero adantage will be using weights down the seat tube to reach 6.8kg because they won't want to use heavy wheel choices to offset the difference to get to 6.8kg.

Anyway, 6.8kg is soon to be scrapped completely, so there will be more an equipment war going on perhaps soon. Arguably the lighter climbers will be able to use lighter equipment than the heavier riders and maintain performance and durability the heavier GC riders might not be able to safely take advantage of or offer responsiveness in the heavier, stiffer kit. There will be an opportunity for teams and manufacturers to work together to reduce weight too as a competitive advantage, so I think we'll just see a level playing field like 6.8kg is now, but simply lighter and perhaps a little more fair on lighter riders like Quintana and Chaves etc?

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Anyway, 6.8kg is soon to be scrapped completely, so there will be more an equipment war going on perhaps soon. Arguably the lighter climbers will be able to use lighter equipment than the heavier riders and maintain performance and durability the heavier GC riders might not be able to safely take advantage of or offer responsiveness in the heavier, stiffer kit. There will be an opportunity for teams and manufacturers to work together to reduce weight too as a competitive advantage, so I think we'll just see a level playing field like 6.8kg is now, but simply lighter and perhaps a little more fair on lighter riders like Quintana and Chaves etc?

I think GC wise lighter riders are the ones who have advantage these days in most races. Team protects them on flat stages, where heavier riders would have advantage, mountains are steeper, bikes lighter and time trial km's less. I'd prefere exactly the opposite - to increase minimal weight of bike to make it fair for heavier riders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Remember that that 2013 Alpe d'Huez stage was just a week after Fabiana Luperini had been kicked out the Giro Rosa a day or two before the end for riding an illegally underweight bike.

Reminds me a bit of the "water cooled brakes" scandal in F1, where teams would use a system that basically ballasted the car at parc fermé with a load of water in tanks next to the brakes, which inevitably evaporated almost immediately, allowing them to run underweight all race, then top up the water at the end and pass the car checks.

 

[blackcat]

Chris Boardman said, you have to ride a bike downhill when you cross those mtn passes.

riding 6.7 downhill would not handle as well as a 7.3 bike.

ofcourse, geometry can change the handling a tad, lower the centre of gravity