Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

Again, Badzhila was never mentioned. It was illuded to.. rather than said

Agreed it was 5kg then 9kgs. Apparently. I've seen Froome photos from 2008, not the Sun Tour, so very much doubt he was 9kg over weight.

Still remains Cooke didn't think he would ever win a GT. Like most people.

I take it Badzhila refers to Bilharzia? ( like it!)

Actually, Badzhila was mentioned by the others commentator, which was when Cooke said he didn't know what the health issues were at that point ie. Their cause.

With regards to Cooke's view on Froome's GT potential, the key quote might be:

". there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

So, yes, he didn't see it at the time, but looking back he realises there were signs.

Of course, we have to take a view on what we think of Cooke's words....but nevertheless they are Cooke's words.

 

[thehog]

Re:

how about his awesome 2008 Liege-Bastogne-Liege performance?

You and Cummings both rode Liège-Bastogne-Liège. How was that for you?
CF: That was some race. I ended up absolutely exhausted. I was almost blacking out with the pain. Maybe I didn’t eat enough. But at least I finished.
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/the-big-interview-chris-froome-95581#L0FEhbXiTkPQuq0A.99

Good interview that one...

What do you make of your two other UK team-mates in Barloworld? [Steve Cummings and Geraint Thomas]

CF: Truth to tell, I’ve not come across so much of Geraint; he’s been doing a lot of work on the track. But Steve and I have done some races together – he’s got a great sense of humour.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

how about his awesome 2008 Liege-Bastogne-Liege performance?

You and Cummings both rode Liège-Bastogne-Liège. How was that for you?
CF: That was some race. I ended up absolutely exhausted. I was almost blacking out with the pain. Maybe I didn’t eat enough. But at least I finished.
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/the-big-interview-chris-froome-95581#L0FEhbXiTkPQuq0A.99

Good interview that one...

What do you make of your two other UK team-mates in Barloworld? [Steve Cummings and Geraint Thomas]

CF: Truth to tell, I’ve not come across so much of Geraint; he’s been doing a lot of work on the track. But Steve and I have done some races together – he’s got a great sense of humour.

What’s your racing been like so far this season?
CF: It started well. I got a second place overall in the Giro del Capo behind my team-mate Christian Pfannberger.

I wonder if Froome was pissed that he got beat by a doper. After all Pfannberger served a ban in 2004 until 2006 and was busted again a few months after that del Capo win.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

Again, Badzhila was never mentioned. It was eluded to.. rather than said

Agreed it was 5kg then 9kgs. Apparently. I've seen Froome photos from 2008, not the Sun Tour, so very much doubt he was 9kg over weight.

Still remains Cooke didn't think he would ever win a GT. Like most people.

No one thought he would win a GT, not even Froome.

Cooke saying that is not going against anything.

Cooke not going to spit in the soup.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/american%20psycho/2013.05.08.20.12.53/1/Jan%20Ullrich%20-%20Tour%20of%20Murcia.jpg

This is what a champion looks like when he's carrying an extra 9kg...

John Swanson

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

Again, Badzhila was never mentioned. It was eluded to.. rather than said

Agreed it was 5kg then 9kgs. Apparently. I've seen Froome photos from 2008, not the Sun Tour, so very much doubt he was 9kg over weight.

Still remains Cooke didn't think he would ever win a GT. Like most people.

No one thought he would win a GT, not even Froome.

Interestingly, Cooke said something that pertains to this. He said (and I'd have to go back and check for exact words) that Froome grew massively in confidence, and also developed the confidence to stand his ground in the peloton rather than being constantly pushed out into the wind as he was at Barloword, early on.

I've got the message that you totally discount anything that doesn't fit into your view of pro cycling, but I disagree with that approach. There are 'clinic' issues, and we both share a view that they are ubiquitous, but riders still have to develop and progress as athletes even within that context. I find Cooke's comments interesting in that respect.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/american%20psycho/2013.05.08.20.12.53/1/Jan%20Ullrich%20-%20Tour%20of%20Murcia.jpg

This is what a champion looks like when he's carrying an extra 9kg...

John Swanson

That photo makes me feel better about myself

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

http://d7ab823tjbf2qywyt3grgq63.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/readers/american%20psycho/2013.05.08.20.12.53/1/Jan%20Ullrich%20-%20Tour%20of%20Murcia.jpg

This is what a champion looks like when he's carrying an extra 9kg...

John Swanson

That photo makes me feel better about myself

Seriously though. Fat density is 0.9 g/ml so 9 kg is like adding an extra 10 liters of body volume!! I have yet to see a photo where Froome as a pro was carrying an extra 6 to 10 liters. uh uh. no way.

John Swanson

 

[kwikki]

You may not have seen a photo, but Cooke saw Froome in the flesh day after day.

9kg does sound a lot, I agree.

 

[thehog]

Re:

You may not have seen a photo, but Cooke saw Froome in the flesh day after day.

9kg does sound a lot, I agree.

Day after day on the 7 day Sun Tour

 

[HappyCycling]

You can tell there has been a concerted effort to change the conversation from Sky being 'dominant' to racing 'smarter'. It's a clear PR move to take the heat off.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

You may not have seen a photo, but Cooke saw Froome in the flesh day after day.

9kg does sound a lot, I agree.

Day after day on the 7 day Sun Tour

And 11.5 stages of the TdF

 

[kwikki]

Re:

You can tell there has been a concerted effort to change the conversation from Sky being 'dominant' to racing 'smarter'. It's a clear PR move to take the heat off.

That is one possible interpretation. Another is that Sky are racing smarter. After all, last year they nearly lost the race on Alpe d'Huez.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

Again, Badzhila was never mentioned. It was eluded to.. rather than said

Agreed it was 5kg then 9kgs. Apparently. I've seen Froome photos from 2008, not the Sun Tour, so very much doubt he was 9kg over weight.

Still remains Cooke didn't think he would ever win a GT. Like most people.

No one thought he would win a GT, not even Froome.

Interestingly, Cooke said something that pertains to this. He said (and I'd have to go back and check for exact words) that Froome grew massively in confidence, and also developed the confidence to stand his ground in the peloton rather than being constantly pushed out into the wind as he was at Barloword, early on.

<snipped for playing man>

I take what Cooke says with the understanding he is firmly part of the circus and will not jeopardise that. He is now a businessman.

When i am riding in the TdF and the ASO/UCI/Richest team in the sport are backing me, it is easy to have a pair. Simoni showed balls. Bassons showed balls. Kimmage showed balls. Froome is not showing balls.

9kg is a lot for a professional athlete.

Before anyone comes in slagging Barlowold as some 3rd world team. They weren't.

 

[HappyCycling]

Re: Re:

You can tell there has been a concerted effort to change the conversation from Sky being 'dominant' to racing 'smarter'. It's a clear PR move to take the heat off.

That is one possible interpretation. Another is that Sky are racing smarter. After all, last year they nearly lost the race on Alpe d'Huez.

They are racing smarter, that much IS clear. But that isn't to say the act of speaking and racing smarter isn't a calculated move from Sky. Especially after the urine, booing and other such delights from last year. Also, Sky were never in danger of losing the Tour on the Alpe last year, Quintana never even got close to the virtual yellow.

 

[hfer07]

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expent the most energy & sacrificed the most for their leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expend the most energy & sacrificed the most for his leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

How much time to "G" lose when he handed over his bike, might have finished ahead of Aru if he didn't have to hand his bike over.

 

[hfer07]

Re: Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expend the most energy & sacrificed the most for his leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

How much time to "G" lose when he handed over his bike, might have finished ahead of Aru if he didn't have to hand his bike over.

exactly. So by that rational we're inclined to believe "G" as a domestique already surpassed Aru, don't we?

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

Again, Badzhila was never mentioned. It was eluded to.. rather than said

Agreed it was 5kg then 9kgs. Apparently. I've seen Froome photos from 2008, not the Sun Tour, so very much doubt he was 9kg over weight.

Still remains Cooke didn't think he would ever win a GT. Like most people.

Here are a couple of pics of Froome from the 2008 Sun Tour

Finish line pic on Mt Buller


And one from earlier in the race


He certainly was carrying more weight but 9 kg's would be a stretch

 

[roundabout]

Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expent the most energy & sacrificed the most for their leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

I don't remember Henao and Thomas (with the exception of stage 20) doing much riding on the front in mountain stages at all.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I agree with roundabout, Henao was practically a protected rider on the team. They let him attack off the front in the Pyrenees to soften the race up instead of riding tempo and let him go into the break on the last mountain stage. Nieve and Poels were the pace setters. Also, they mainly finished amongst the stage hunters like Pantano, Majka, and Zakarin (i.e people intentionally dropping time at places). So, I am not sure how that makes them well- positioned in the final GC.

 

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expent the most energy & sacrificed the most for their leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

I don't remember Henao and Thomas (with the exception of stage 20) doing much riding on the front in mountain stages at all.

But sure they couldnt be doping- Chris would have them locked up
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-shocked-on-doping-in-team/

I gotta say this year on the joux plane they were ridiculous- shouldn't someone have got on the radio and told at least some of them to pretend to get dropped-

 

[hfer07]

Re: Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expent the most energy & sacrificed the most for their leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

I don't remember Henao and Thomas (with the exception of stage 20) doing much riding on the front in mountain stages at all.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expent the most energy & sacrificed the most for their leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

I don't remember Henao and Thomas (with the exception of stage 20) doing much riding on the front in mountain stages at all.

But sure they couldnt be doping- Chris would have them locked up
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-shocked-on-doping-in-team/

I gotta say this year on the joux plane they were ridiculous- shouldn't someone have got on the radio and told at least some of them to pretend to get dropped-

Hmm I think Froome is full of *** on this.

What’s your racing been like so far this season?
CF: It started well. I got a second place overall in the Giro del Capo behind my team-mate Christian Pfannberger.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/the-big-interview-chris-froome-95581#L0FEhbXiTkPQuq0A.99

Pfannberger had served a 2 year ban prior to that interview and was banned a 2nd time within a year of that interview.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

So...

1) Froome
It was expected
BUT
this is what interests me:

12) Henao
15) G
17) Nieve
28) Poels

Three Deluxe domestiques finishing top 20 & the mighty mountain pacer within the top 30. Landa ended up 35..... We are looking at the people who set Froome up in the mountains all the time, expent the most energy & sacrificed the most for their leader.........yet they get to be well positioned in the final GC....... how is that possible?

not normal

I don't remember Henao and Thomas (with the exception of stage 20) doing much riding on the front in mountain stages at all.

But sure they couldnt be doping- Chris would have them locked up
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/froome-shocked-on-doping-in-team/

I gotta say this year on the joux plane they were ridiculous- shouldn't someone have got on the radio and told at least some of them to pretend to get dropped-

What was remotely ridiculous about it ffs???!

It was the key stage to survive and stay with Froome and not one, not one contender attacked, yet Froome survived with the likes of Nieve, Thomas and Poels, oh wow that was off the scale, even though they conceded time to the break all day and had to fend off ZERO attacks.