Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[kwikki]

No. He actually said what I quoted. He said your quote too.

It was a good conversation, they talked about Sky's professionalism, innovation and advanced methods without actually naming any of those methods!

Too funny

And yet the common meme in this forum (spread by your good self too) is that Sky don't do anything new that other teams aren't doing already.

Here we have an actual current top level pro on a rival team, who directly contradicts this, saying that the peloton follow what Sky are bringing to the sport because Sky are leading the way with innovation.

I'm sure you know more about it all than him, though :lol:

 

[Saint Unix]

Marginal gains are all a red herring though. They don't explain the likes of Froome magically turning into a legendary GC rider at the toss of a hat. Even with doping in the equation, that transformation is completely unbelievable.

 

[thehog]

Re:

No. He actually said what I quoted. He said your quote too.

It was a good conversation, they talked about Sky's professionalism, innovation and advanced methods without actually naming any of those methods!

Too funny

And yet the common meme in this forum (spread by your good self too) is that Sky don't do anything new that other teams aren't doing already.

Here we have an actual current top level pro on a rival team, who directly contradicts this, saying that the peloton follow what Sky are bringing to the sport because Sky are leading the way with innovation.

I'm sure you know more about it all than him, though :lol:

No, he didn't say "I follow everything Sky do".

Renshaw has been around way before Sky. He has seen it all. The questions he was being asked were leading questions "Does the peloton follow the professionalism of Team Sky?".

He was telling them what they wanted to hear. He also told a story about everyone eating burgers and pizzas the night before the final stage. They were all calling Cavendish "Cav", back slaps a plenty.

I don't think you would take his words as evidence of anything.

Unless of course you were on a forum trying to wind people up

 

[saganftw]

Re:

No. He actually said what I quoted. He said your quote too.

It was a good conversation, they talked about Sky's professionalism, innovation and advanced methods without actually naming any of those methods!

Too funny

And yet the common meme in this forum (spread by your good self too) is that Sky don't do anything new that other teams aren't doing already.

Here we have an actual current top level pro on a rival team, who directly contradicts this, saying that the peloton follow what Sky are bringing to the sport because Sky are leading the way with innovation.

I'm sure you know more about it all than him, though :lol:

the meme is about how those innovations are meaningless to the actuall performance,not that they dont bring any...

also what are those?where can i follow them?i could perhaps enhance quality of my riding

 

[adamfo]

Here's an an article conspiracy/moon hoax theorists here will like

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liberation.fr%2Fsports%2F2016%2F07%2F21%2Fbrain-doping-prise-de-tete_1467755

 

[sniper]

Re:

Kimmage nailed it in 2 tweets.

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage 1 hour ago

1/2 David Walsh writes another glowing tribute to Dave Brailsford today in the S.T but ignores Brailsford's most notable achievement:

2/2 Taking a sport with zero credibility in 2012 (sic2010) and changing nothing six years later.

tucker and kimmage keeping it real.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Here's an an article conspiracy/moon hoax theorists here will like

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liberation.fr%2Fsports%2F2016%2F07%2F21%2Fbrain-doping-prise-de-tete_1467755

David Brailsford, who had discovered the technology in February 2015 during a visit in several high-tech companies in San Francisco, has himself tried this principle with electrodes during a game of darts

Lol! Sky to take on international Darts?

 

[Saint Unix]

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

 

[Benotti69]

"Our policy is not to buy performance but reward it" says professional management speak bollocksologist Dave Brailsford.

I guess he stole that from David Brent.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

No, DDD were told Cav can have some stage wins and a breakaway, but leave the climbs to Sky

Read Cookson's quote. "Other teams need to get their acts together a bit more" - Cookson when asked if Team Sky are too dominant. This screams volumes.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

 

[kwikki]

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

No, DDD were told Cav can have some stage wins and a breakaway, but leave the climbs to Sky

Read Cookson's quote. "Other teams need to get their acts together a bit more" - Cookson when asked if Team Sky are too dominant. This screams volumes.

What speaks volumes is that you have to make up what "DDD were told"

Always better to deal in truths.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

No, DDD were told Cav can have some stage wins and a breakaway, but leave the climbs to Sky

Read Cookson's quote. "Other teams need to get their acts together a bit more" - Cookson when asked if Team Sky are too dominant. This screams volumes.

It was an odd quote by Cookson. What is his expectation? Have 5 teams, each with 5 riders each with 5km to go on a MTF?

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

What he actually said about Froome at Barlow was:

"He had health issues"

"He hadn't fine tuned his training"

"He was at least 5 kilos heavier, probably more, and he still rode very well in the mountains"

"He knew he was a Grand Tour rider...it just took him a bit longer to fine tune his training..to get his mind right .. there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

"On the Herald Sun Tour in 2008 he might have been 9 kilos heavier and he was 4th up Mt Buller and it was like 'Wow! You can climb really well!'..and he stripped that 9 kilos off and he goes uphill like a rocket!"


.....so, not quite the story you were trying to spin, thehog

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

What he actually said about Froome at Barlow was:

"He had health issues"

"He hadn't fine tuned his training"

"He was at least 5 kilos heavier, probably more, and he still rode very well in the mountains"

"He knew he was a Grand Tour rider...it just took him a bit longer to fine tune his training..to get his mind right .. there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

"On the Herald Sun Tour in 2008 he might have been 9 kilos heavier and he was 4th up Mt Bull and it was like 'Wow! You can climb really well!'..and he stripped that 9 kilos off and he goes uphill like a rocket!"


.....so, not quite the story you were trying to spin, thehog

thanks Kwikki, I am watching Rai TV so I missed that.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

What he actually said about Froome at Barlow was:

"He had health issues"

"He hadn't fine tuned his training"

"He was at least 5 kilos heavier, probably more, and he still rode very well in the mountains"

"He knew he was a Grand Tour rider...it just took him a bit longer to fine tune his training..to get his mind right .. there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

"On the Herald Sun Tour in 2008 he might have been 9 kilos heavier and he was 4th up Mt Buller and it was like 'Wow! You can climb really well!'..and he stripped that 9 kilos off and he goes uphill like a rocket!"


.....so, not quite the story you were trying to spin, thehog

He said "I think he had health issues, not sure if it was the......" then he dropped dead, not sure whether he should mention the B word.

"I think he was 9kg heavier..." 20 seconds later.... "He was about 3kg overweight"....

To be fair, Froome did beat Porte on Buller! :lol:

October 16, 2008: Herald Sun Tour: Alexandra - Mt. Buller (116 km):
1 Chris Jongeward (Aus) Panasonic 03:03:25
2 Christopher Froome (GBr) Barloworld 0.45
3 Lars Bak (Den) CSC-Saxo Bank 0.58
4 William Ford (Aus) SouthAustralia.com-AIS 1.04
5 Jeremy Yates (NZl) Yes Optus Shop New Zealand 1.06
6 Peter McDonald (Aus) Drapac Porsche
7 Richie Porte (Aus) Praties 1.08

 

[zlev11]

how about his awesome 2008 Liege-Bastogne-Liege performance?

You and Cummings both rode Liège-Bastogne-Liège. How was that for you?
CF: That was some race. I ended up absolutely exhausted. I was almost blacking out with the pain. Maybe I didn’t eat enough. But at least I finished.
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/the-big-interview-chris-froome-95581#L0FEhbXiTkPQuq0A.99

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

What he actually said about Froome at Barlow was:

"He had health issues"

"He hadn't fine tuned his training"

"He was at least 5 kilos heavier, probably more, and he still rode very well in the mountains"

"He knew he was a Grand Tour rider...it just took him a bit longer to fine tune his training..to get his mind right .. there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

"On the Herald Sun Tour in 2008 he might have been 9 kilos heavier and he was 4th up Mt Buller and it was like 'Wow! You can climb really well!'..and he stripped that 9 kilos off and he goes uphill like a rocket!"


.....so, not quite the story you were trying to spin, thehog

Baden Cooke is an agent for cyclists. He is omerta. he has bought the Sky line repeats the mantra. Cooke is spinning.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

What he actually said about Froome at Barlow was:

"He had health issues"

"He hadn't fine tuned his training"

"He was at least 5 kilos heavier, probably more, and he still rode very well in the mountains"

"He knew he was a Grand Tour rider...it just took him a bit longer to fine tune his training..to get his mind right .. there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

"On the Herald Sun Tour in 2008 he might have been 9 kilos heavier and he was 4th up Mt Buller and it was like 'Wow! You can climb really well!'..and he stripped that 9 kilos off and he goes uphill like a rocket!"


.....so, not quite the story you were trying to spin, thehog

Baden Cooke is an agent for cyclists. He is omerta. he has bought the Sky line repeats the mantra. Cooke is spinning.

Baden Cooke agent(or was) to the legend that is Chris Horner

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Renshaw also rides on the same team as Cav, Siutsou, Eisel and EBH, who were all in the team when Sky riders started dominating stage races with their train, so he should have quite a decent idea of what those things are that Sky do. Their whole team should.

Why aren't we seeing Dimension climbers pounding out climbing times on par with past dopers in stage races if those marginal gains are as magical as Sky want us to believe? I guess they just don't want it bad enough.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger

I'm just quoting what a current top level pro on a rival team says about Team Sky leading the sport with innovation, and the rest of the peloton following what Team Sky do.

I would have thought that actual verbatim opinion about Team Sky from rival Pro riders in the peloton would be welcome here, no?

Baden Cooke now on ITV saying he never thought Froome would be a champion. "No, I couldn't have imagined it".

Cooke was at Barloword in 2008.

What he actually said about Froome at Barlow was:

"He had health issues"

"He hadn't fine tuned his training"

"He was at least 5 kilos heavier, probably more, and he still rode very well in the mountains"

"He knew he was a Grand Tour rider...it just took him a bit longer to fine tune his training..to get his mind right .. there were some indicators but I didn't pick up on it"

"On the Herald Sun Tour in 2008 he might have been 9 kilos heavier and he was 4th up Mt Buller and it was like 'Wow! You can climb really well!'..and he stripped that 9 kilos off and he goes uphill like a rocket!"


.....so, not quite the story you were trying to spin, thehog

He said "I think he had health issues, not sure if it was the......" then he dropped dead, not sure whether he should mention the B word.

"I think he was 9kg heavier..." 20 seconds later.... "He was about 3kg overweight"....

To be fair, Froome did beat Porte on Buller! :lol:

October 16, 2008: Herald Sun Tour: Alexandra - Mt. Buller (116 km):
1 Chris Jongeward (Aus) Panasonic 03:03:25
2 Christopher Froome (GBr) Barloworld 0.45
3 Lars Bak (Den) CSC-Saxo Bank 0.58
4 William Ford (Aus) SouthAustralia.com-AIS 1.04
5 Jeremy Yates (NZl) Yes Optus Shop New Zealand 1.06
6 Peter McDonald (Aus) Drapac Porsche
7 Richie Porte (Aus) Praties 1.08

Nope. I've checked on my recording. 3kg never mentioned. He started off with a figure of 5kg and then said he thought Froome was 9 kg heavier on the Buller.

The illness thing was interesting. He said Froome had health issues. The other commentator referred to the Bilharzia and Cooke said "we didn't know what it was at that stage"


.

 

[kwikki]

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

kudos for keeping it fair and calm Kwikki. and for recording ITV

 

[thehog]

Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

Again, Badzhila was never mentioned. It was eluded to.. rather than said

Agreed it was 5kg then 9kgs. Apparently. I've seen Froome photos from 2008, not the Sun Tour, so very much doubt he was 9kg over weight.

Still remains Cooke didn't think he would ever win a GT. Like most people.

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

@Benotti

Well, you have your view of the pro cycling world, and you'll fit what people say into that view.

Not saying you are wrong, I'm just correcting thehog's misquotation of Cooke.

kudos for keeping it fair and calm Kwikki. and for recording ITV

No problem, pastronef. I get that people are passionate in their beliefs, and understand that sometimes this passion gets the better of them.

My views on Sky's near-certain Clinic issues are well known, but I don't feel the need to dismiss the good just because there is some bad.