Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Funny how people like Richard Moore are so omerta'd up they cant even help themselves.

Here's his tweet

Richard Moore‏ @richardmoore73

TdF Prediction: the biggest story to come out of today's rest day press conferences will be Team Sky's refusal to do a press conference.

A proper journalist would ask why are Sky refusing journalists.

A proper journalist would remind Sky they out started in the sport with massive declarations and a 'tome' of how they were going to be transparent. They insinuated everyone else was cheating/doping but they were going to different, be clean, be transparent, be honest, be open.......

A proper journalist would remind Sky that denying journalists the right to ask hard questions points to the obvious.

Moore is a fan with a typewriter sniffing for some copy. Moore shooting the messengers of which he supposed to be one. What a joke.

Chapeau CN and Barry Ryan.

I'm genuinely interested in when Sky said they would be "transparent" in terms of talking about non-racing matters. Or when they insinuated that anyone who had not been caught cheating had done so (other than to simply state they wouldn't hire a rider if they considered that they had irregularities in their biological passports - which seems entirely reasonable given the 1-10 scale of riders for suspicion - e.g. Menchov).

So far the team have been shown to make a poor recruitment decision over Leinders, use an auditable TUE process for Wiggins (and seemingly, Wiggins alone) in unusual circumstances and oversee an incredible development of one rider (Froome). While disappointing, none of this contradicts anything I have heard from Sky.

It was all in an interview Brailsford gave to Paul Kimmage in 2009 . It is probably behind an SundayTimes paywall if not deleted from their systems.

here's some of it.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/paul-kimmage-shares-reminder-of-lofty-ethics-at-early-team-sky/

Brailsford in the interview pointed to the 'Tome of transparency' on the table. He talked about being clean and transparent.

Kimmage asked him "if there was a difference between doing the right thing and being seen to do the right thing."

Brailsford replied: “Good point – the only way is to do the right thing regardless of being seen or not.”

I think this is what cost Kimmage his job at the Sunday Times. Methinketh, only a guess, but Brailsford saw that Kimmage would not swallow the BS that was going to flow over the next years

Lots of stuff from that interview have come back to bite Brailsford.

Edit: found it. Still online, not sure if it is the original published.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dave-brailsford-keeping-it-clean-0l73xzcbrjj

2nd edit:Interview Kimmage gave to velonation in 2012

"Anti-doping journalist Paul Kimmage has said that he believes Team Sky has not lived up to the promise it made when the team was founded, namely to be fully transparent and, in doing so, to prove beyond doubt that the Tour de France could be won by a clean team."

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx#ixzz4n7P0pg5a

Brailsford promised to prove beyond doubt...........lots of doubt now.

 

[Irondan]

I know this is off topic, but Matt DeCanio is going off in the CN Comments section!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/can...ore-end-of-tour-de-france/#comment-3421275693

His perspective is worth reading!

 

[Benotti69]

Some serious under researched people out there

Cycling Ramble‏ @CyclingRamble 3h3 hours ago

Barry Ryan of @Cyclingnewsfeed suggest that Sky haven't had marginal gains...
They advanced:
Skinsuits, Mount Teide, Warming Up/down, etc

JEEZUZ!!!!

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I know this is off topic, but Matt DeCanio is going off in the CN Comments section!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/can...ore-end-of-tour-de-france/#comment-3421275693

His perspective is worth reading!

Can his 'comments' be moved to the Di Canio thread?

 

[Saint Unix]

Re:

Some serious under researched people out there

Cycling Ramble‏ @CyclingRamble 3h3 hours ago

Barry Ryan of @Cyclingnewsfeed suggest that Sky haven't had marginal gains...
They advanced:
Skinsuits, Mount Teide, Warming Up/down, etc

JEEZUZ!!!!

Just goes to show that constantly pushing the narrative of being on the frontier of innovation will fool thousands of bots into actually believing it.

Mount Teide, ffs...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Some serious under researched people out there

Cycling Ramble‏ @CyclingRamble 3h3 hours ago

Barry Ryan of @Cyclingnewsfeed suggest that Sky haven't had marginal gains...
They advanced:
Skinsuits, Mount Teide, Warming Up/down, etc

JEEZUZ!!!!

Just goes to show that constantly pushing the narrative of being on the frontier of innovation will fool thousands of bots into actually believing it.

Mount Teide, ffs...

Including most hacks too. Look at Walsh!

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

I know this is off topic, but Matt DeCanio is going off in the CN Comments section!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/can...ore-end-of-tour-de-france/#comment-3421275693

His perspective is worth reading!

Can his 'comments' be moved to the Di Canio thread?

Yeah, we can probably do something like that.

 

[Parker]

Re:

Funny how people like Richard Moore are so omerta'd up they cant even help themselves.

Here's his tweet

Richard Moore‏ @richardmoore73

TdF Prediction: the biggest story to come out of today's rest day press conferences will be Team Sky's refusal to do a press conference.

A proper journalist would ask why are Sky refusing journalists.

A proper journalist would remind Sky they out started in the sport with massive declarations and a 'tome' of how they were going to be transparent. They insinuated everyone else was cheating/doping but they were going to different, be clean, be transparent, be honest, be open.......

A proper journalist would remind Sky that denying journalists the right to ask hard questions points to the obvious.

Moore is a fan with a typewriter sniffing for some copy. Moore shooting the messengers of which he supposed to be one. What a joke.

Chapeau CN and Barry Ryan.

Last year Richard Moore asked Froome directly what TUEs he had - he was the only journalist who did. Froome told him in detail and the Fancy Bears hack backed it up.

What has Barry Ryan ever found out? What have you ever learnt from Ryan. He just writes clickbait opinion pieces in an effort to be seen as a poundshop Kimmage by posters like you.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Funny how people like Richard Moore are so omerta'd up they cant even help themselves.

Here's his tweet

Richard Moore‏ @richardmoore73

TdF Prediction: the biggest story to come out of today's rest day press conferences will be Team Sky's refusal to do a press conference.

A proper journalist would ask why are Sky refusing journalists.

A proper journalist would remind Sky they out started in the sport with massive declarations and a 'tome' of how they were going to be transparent. They insinuated everyone else was cheating/doping but they were going to different, be clean, be transparent, be honest, be open.......

A proper journalist would remind Sky that denying journalists the right to ask hard questions points to the obvious.

Moore is a fan with a typewriter sniffing for some copy. Moore shooting the messengers of which he supposed to be one. What a joke.

Chapeau CN and Barry Ryan.

Last year Richard Moore asked Froome directly what TUEs he had - he was the only journalist who did. Froome told him in detail and the Fancy Bears hack backed it up.

What has Barry Ryan ever found out?

<snipped personal attack>.

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Moore wrote the fluff piece for GQ magazine, where it was 'discovered' that Froome rise at age 26 from pack fodder at to 2nd at La Vulta was he 'lost his inner fat'. Moore that great insightful journalist.

Ryan is at least writing decent pieces, while he is no James Joyce, at least he is not afraid to put his head above the parapet, more than most ever did in sport.

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

No one better than Moore.

Moore's piece is only 5 years too late. Why was he not finding out how Froome went from nowhere at Tour of Poland to should've won the Vuelta if it wasn't for Wiggins!

Give us a break.

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

No one better than Moore.

Moore's piece is only 5 years too late. Why was he not finding out how Froome went from nowhere at Tour of Poland to should've won the Vuelta if it wasn't for Wiggins!

Give us a break.

That Tour of Poland was won by Peter Sagan, so I'm guessing it wasn't very Froome friendly. British cyclists were more pre-occupied in trying to score World Tour points to boost their team for Cavendish's World Championship challenge. They were trying to set up puncheurs like Kennaugh and Cummings and sprinters like Blythe. Froome's job was either to get in the break or chase down the break.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

No one better than Moore.

Moore's piece is only 5 years too late. Why was he not finding out how Froome went from nowhere at Tour of Poland to should've won the Vuelta if it wasn't for Wiggins!

Give us a break.

That Tour of Poland was won by Peter Sagan, so I'm guessing it wasn't very Froome friendly. British cyclists were more pre-occupied in trying to score World Tour points to boost their team for Cavendish's World Championship challenge. They were trying to set up puncheurs like Kennaugh and Cummings and sprinters like Blythe. Froome's job was either to get in the break or chase down the break.

Yeah, i think his performance at La Vuelta was about to get in the break or chase down the break!

Remember he only got in La Vuelta due to another rider pulling out. I mean 'genius' Brailsford didn't think it was a Vuelta friendly race for Froome!!!!

Froome friendly!!!! That's as bad as he 'lost his inner fat'.

I suppose pre 2009 Le Tour was not Wiggins friendly or Froome friendly pre 2012. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! :lol:

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

No one better than Moore.

Moore's piece is only 5 years too late. Why was he not finding out how Froome went from nowhere at Tour of Poland to should've won the Vuelta if it wasn't for Wiggins!

Give us a break.

Let's get back to your lie about Moore. Why lie? You said Moore asked Froome after the Fancy Bears hack. This is a lie.

Edited by King Boonen: Post, not poster please.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Not many races were Froome friendly until that autumn in Spain. Then organisers suddenly got it together

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

What I'm trying to say is basically this: there is something eyebrow raising about the way Sky doms ride stronger than GC leaders on other teams.

We're not talking about Lemond and Hinualt, or Delgado and Indurain. We're talking Froome, Thomas and Landa. In other years it has been a different combination - Froome himself was a massive surprise in 2012.

It was eyebrow raising to see Thomas win a prologue, without taking risks - ahead of the specialists who clearly did.

It is eyebrow raising to see Landa look so good, despite riding his guts out in the Giro. He's fresh as a daisy - but Quintana is gone.

Last year it was Poels: kept the elite of the elite in the red all the way through the mountains.

Suspicion is justified, obviously, but I wouldn't know how to even approach objectifying that sort of metric in any way. It's hard, because clearly everyone who's doping in cycling these days is really good at hiding it, which wasn't always the case historically.

Yes, I think it's pretty silly to attempt objectifying this in any way.

It's an internet forum, and we're all speculating. That's the basis for these discussions, even if we resort to history and inference to make our points.

No one really has an immutable rational case, be it cleans, doping or somewhere on the spectrum.

Nonetheless, every tdf since 2012 I end up here faithfully recording my speculative suspicion. Time sometimes reveals all - it has in the case of 2012.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Not many races were Froome friendly until that autumn in Spain. Then organisers suddenly got it together

I did have a good chuckle at this :lol:

The 2010 Giro was Froome friendly. They ever provided sprinters for him to push and a motorcycle to assist him getting up the climbs.

As for Sagan winning the 2011 Tour of Poland, who can forget the video of Sagan outclimbing a zig-zagging Froome on the early slops of Mt. Baldy at the Tour of California the same year. And by the looks of that flag, there's even a tailwind!

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

No one better than Moore.

Moore's piece is only 5 years too late. Why was he not finding out how Froome went from nowhere at Tour of Poland to should've won the Vuelta if it wasn't for Wiggins!

Give us a break.

That Tour of Poland was won by Peter Sagan, so I'm guessing it wasn't very Froome friendly. British cyclists were more pre-occupied in trying to score World Tour points to boost their team for Cavendish's World Championship challenge. They were trying to set up puncheurs like Kennaugh and Cummings and sprinters like Blythe. Froome's job was either to get in the break or chase down the break.

now that is funny....the world's best GC rider, a rider at the limits of human physiology......it's a funny world you live in...perhaps time dims the memory of our hapless hero..........................

 

[msjett]

I read the headline article today on CN....and laughed....CN have been so pro-sky it ain't funny...but I thought that brailsford had a gall for calling out someone for writing *** about him when all that has ever come from his mouth is a load of it...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?

Er, no. Here's Moore's piece - dated 26 June 2016: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/cycling/chris-froome-and-his-team-can-win-the-tour-de-france-1-4163234

The Bears hack was after the Olympics.

It's amazing how much of you opinions are based on misinformation

No one better than Moore.

Moore's piece is only 5 years too late. Why was he not finding out how Froome went from nowhere at Tour of Poland to should've won the Vuelta if it wasn't for Wiggins!

Give us a break.

Let's get back to your lie about Moore.

<snipped for personal attack>

Please see question mark after I wrote "Moore asked Froome after Fancy Bears hack. So Moore found out nothing?"

No lie, a question. To attack me is off topic and against forum rules.

 

[Benotti69]

Sky putting on a USPostal style performance today. Luke Rowe bringing back Quintana on a HC climb.

They might as well win!!!

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Sky putting on a USPostal style performance today. Luke Rowe bringing back Quintana on a HC climb.

They might as well win!!!

Rowe has been doing that for a few years, and if you noticed, Quintana was too slow for Contador and he let him go and let the group catch him. the fast one is Contador, Quintana was slow.

 

[S2Sturges]

Re:

Sky putting on a USPostal style performance today. Luke Rowe bringing back Quintana on a HC climb.

They might as well win!!!

Froome to win solo today..

 

[deeno1975]

Re: Re:

Sky putting on a USPostal style performance today. Luke Rowe bringing back Quintana on a HC climb.

They might as well win!!!

Rowe has been doing that for a few years, and if you noticed, Quintana was too slow for Contador and he let him go and let the group catch him. the fast one is Contador, Quintana was slow.

Yeah, Lowe a mountain domestique.. .. Santa Clause/Tooth Fairy/Leprechaun's/Frankie Andreu..

 

[samhocking]

Luke Rowe is last rider in the race, so not sure he's doing any more than any other domestique early in the stage? Plenty of riders can outclimb any GC contender for a few km, knowing in 20 minutes time their day is over and they can ride easy for the next 100km.