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Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re: Re:

fmk_RoI said:
brownbobby said:
thehog said:
macbindle said:
Dunno. It's a job. He had an opportunity and he took it. Did what he had to do. Made some money. Retired.

His mind is messed now, but probably because he's not getting away with what Tour winners usually get away with. Same with Armstrong x7.

Hmmmmm. Dunno. He never appeared comfortable with his victory from the day after the 2012 Tour. The fact that Sky/Brailsford backed Froome the following year showed that they all knew Wiggins could never win a GT again. He knew it was completely staged for him 2012. He appeared much more at home winning TTs because he knew that’s what he was naturally capable of doing well in.

That, I think, is it in a nutshell...whatever you say about Wiggins, he's always been about the glory, if he does something he's generally playing to win.

Nothing to do with doping, I just can't imagine having put his name in the record books in 2012 he'd fancy having his limitations exposed on a more traditional TDF route in 2013....even if Sky had been willing to back him again.
I'm not sure that's accurate. He was a pretty dull domestique for a long time. And throughout the first half of 2013 he was bullish about the Tour, even talking of the double.

That he did not enjoy 2012: he talks about that in a Graham Norton interview. The process was no fun, the victory was sweet. We can turn to doping and blame that, call it a case of the tell-tale heart, but there are other explanations. He obviously saw Froome as a rival after the Kenyan 'transformed' at the Vuelta but his position in the team was already undermined: Brailsford had lit a rocket under his **** at the end of 2010 over the way he worked within the team, wasn't stepping up as a leader. It was, it has been said by some, a step up or **** off moment. (Some of this is alluded to in My Time.) Call it disillusionment (Wiggins got disillusioned with every team he rode with) similar to Cav's disillusionment. I doubt any of them realised what a soulless machine Sky would be.

Don't disagree with most of that....but the bit about 2013, I'm not so sure that was in his head and what was coming out of his mouth were necessarily the same things....
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
thehog said:
macbindle said:
Dunno. It's a job. He had an opportunity and he took it. Did what he had to do. Made some money. Retired.

His mind is messed now, but probably because he's not getting away with what Tour winners usually get away with. Same with Armstrong x7.

Hmmmmm. Dunno. He never appeared comfortable with his victory from the day after the 2012 Tour. The fact that Sky/Brailsford backed Froome the following year showed that they all knew Wiggins could never win a GT again. He knew it was completely staged for him 2012. He appeared much more at home winning TTs because he knew that’s what he was naturally capable of doing well in.

That, I think, is it in a nutshell...whatever you say about Wiggins, he's always been about the glory, if he does something he's generally playing to win.

Nothing to do with doping, I just can't imagine having put his name in the record books in 2012 he'd fancy having his limitations exposed on a more traditional TDF route in 2013....even if Sky had been willing to back him again.

That and a juiced Contador was coming back in 2013. Sad that we never got to see Wiggins and Dawg on Ventoux in 2013, would have been a sight to behold! :surprised:
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
brownbobby said:
thehog said:
macbindle said:
Dunno. It's a job. He had an opportunity and he took it. Did what he had to do. Made some money. Retired.

His mind is messed now, but probably because he's not getting away with what Tour winners usually get away with. Same with Armstrong x7.

Hmmmmm. Dunno. He never appeared comfortable with his victory from the day after the 2012 Tour. The fact that Sky/Brailsford backed Froome the following year showed that they all knew Wiggins could never win a GT again. He knew it was completely staged for him 2012. He appeared much more at home winning TTs because he knew that’s what he was naturally capable of doing well in.

That, I think, is it in a nutshell...whatever you say about Wiggins, he's always been about the glory, if he does something he's generally playing to win.

Nothing to do with doping, I just can't imagine having put his name in the record books in 2012 he'd fancy having his limitations exposed on a more traditional TDF route in 2013....even if Sky had been willing to back him again.

That and a juiced Contador was coming back in 2013. Sad that we never got to see Wiggins and Dawg on Ventoux in 2013, would have been a sight to behold! :surprised:
Wasn't Bert complete rubbish in 2013, his bike battery flat or something? Did he add anything to his palmarès or was it a complete waste of time and Oleg's money?
 
Re:

MartinGT said:
I just can see the Dawg getting off and sky carrying on as per with SDB walking around smug

I can see Froome dragging this out and then perhaps taking his ban after the Tour. He really doesn’t care for the rules.

Also President Lappy is meant to have new motor doping iPad app ready soon so perhaps the Dawg won’t be as potent as he has been on the past :cool:
 
Re: Re:

aphronesis said:
macbindle said:
Short term, for them, yes. For the sport, no.

I posed this question obliquely a few days ago: in what universe would anyone see change coming to the sport? If and when Sky go down, then what? More Astana/Gulf State versions?

* My comments are NOT directed at you ... I'm just cueing of your most relevant question. *

Obliquely ... in question and response ... is the only way to roll on this. The Western Canon ... makes great promises on right, wrong and tiidy Solutions ... but rarely keeps its promises.

What do you mean by 'change', Aphronesis? What does your vision/version of 'right' Professional Cycling look like? What is wrong with it now? After the eye roll ... what's your response?

I could be mis-reading you ... my sincere apologies, if I am ... but what's your point on Astana ... Gulf State Teams? Do they not fit into the 'neat, tidy, traditional" team type that you've come to know, love and hate? Western Canon got room for these evil dudes?

Outside of the Clinic, outside of the cynic-laden social media and scandal-fetished print/video media .... millions upon millios are enjoying professional cycling. Because of it ... they buy bikes, they ride bikes, race bikes ... create millions of cycling tourism dollars.

Maybe pro cycling is doing a 'decent' job of keeping the sport alive while balancing some inherent tricky issues of any institution where money and competition plays a major role.

Maybe we should heed the cautionary by line of the former CEO of The Clinic ... sausage 'n all. Maybe this is good as it gets.

Enjoy the Giro, man!
 
Re:

MartinGT said:
I just can see the Dawg getting off and sky carrying on as per with SDB walking around smug

So glum, MGT. :sad:

Our dear Dawgie may well get only litely sanctioned ... but that doesn't mean that the Clinic has to stop kicking the shyte outa him all summer long, now does it? :)
 
Re: Sky

Bronstein said:
samhocking said:
I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

Who said that?

samhocking? Any source for this supposed 'story'?
 
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Re: Sky

Bronstein said:
Bronstein said:
samhocking said:
I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

Who said that?

samhocking? Any source for this supposed 'story'?

Ahh, the Toblerone cover story

A thing of joy and wonder every time that gets rolled out :lol: :lol:
 
Feb 5, 2018
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Re: Sky

Bronstein said:
Bronstein said:
samhocking said:
I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

Who said that?
samhocking? Any source for this supposed 'story'?

still no source for this nugget of info sam?
 
Re: Sky

It's not surprising at all. 50% of the training at BC for Team & Individual pursuit since Chris Boardman simulated it in his bedrooms oxygen chamber with Petr Keen is actually done climbing mountains at altitude believe it or not. The reason Wiggins was chosen for GC leadership over anyone else at BC was his numbers on those climbs mathematically said he had the potential to climb as fast as anyone with the required weight adjustment. This has been commented on multiple times. Thomas is arguably the second best pursuit rider after Wiggins so knowing how much data BC also have on him climbing mountains in Mallorca with Wiggins for Team Pursuit it is logical he would be given GC leadership roles in grand tours. As boring as it is, his numbers will simply show his potential to climb mountains fast like Wiggins despite coming from a track background.
 
Re: Sky

samhocking said:
It's not surprising at all. 50% of the training at BC for Team & Individual pursuit since Chris Boardman simulated it in his bedrooms oxygen chamber with Petr Keen is actually done climbing mountains at altitude believe it or not. The reason Wiggins was chosen for GC leadership over anyone else at BC was his numbers on those climbs mathematically said he had the potential to climb as fast as anyone with the required weight adjustment. This has been commented on multiple times. Thomas is arguably the second best pursuit rider after Wiggins so knowing how much data BC also have on him climbing mountains in Mallorca with Wiggins for Team Pursuit it is logical he would be given GC leadership roles in grand tours. As boring as it is, his numbers will simply show his potential to climb mountains fast like Wiggins despite coming from a track background.

So, it was all in his head when Wiggins used to suck at climbing and all it took was some data interpretation to get him to believe in himself? Got it.
 
Re: Sky

Huapango said:
samhocking said:
It's not surprising at all. 50% of the training at BC for Team & Individual pursuit since Chris Boardman simulated it in his bedrooms oxygen chamber with Petr Keen is actually done climbing mountains at altitude believe it or not. The reason Wiggins was chosen for GC leadership over anyone else at BC was his numbers on those climbs mathematically said he had the potential to climb as fast as anyone with the required weight adjustment. This has been commented on multiple times. Thomas is arguably the second best pursuit rider after Wiggins so knowing how much data BC also have on him climbing mountains in Mallorca with Wiggins for Team Pursuit it is logical he would be given GC leadership roles in grand tours. As boring as it is, his numbers will simply show his potential to climb mountains fast like Wiggins despite coming from a track background.

So, it was all in his head when Wiggins used to suck at climbing and all it took was some data interpretation to get him to believe in himself? Got it.

The power was always there. He just had to lose the fat.

Heard that before ..
 
Re: Sky

samhocking said:
It's not surprising at all. 50% of the training at BC for Team & Individual pursuit since Chris Boardman simulated it in his bedrooms oxygen chamber with Petr Keen is actually done climbing mountains at altitude believe it or not. The reason Wiggins was chosen for GC leadership over anyone else at BC was his numbers on those climbs mathematically said he had the potential to climb as fast as anyone with the required weight adjustment. This has been commented on multiple times. Thomas is arguably the second best pursuit rider after Wiggins so knowing how much data BC also have on him climbing mountains in Mallorca with Wiggins for Team Pursuit it is logical he would be given GC leadership roles in grand tours. As boring as it is, his numbers will simply show his potential to climb mountains fast like Wiggins despite coming from a track background.

Formulas, mathematics, data and mountains: is it really plausible to invoke this in cycling without any reference to the fact that this template was basically invented by Michele Ferrari, and is the hallmark of an accomplished scientific doping program?
 

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