Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Ferminal]

The day climbed Telegraphe they didn't finish at the top of Galibier...

 

[noddy69]

I dont see anything strange about what they did at all. In fact it should be applauded. They set out a strategy to be open with the info on their riders,specifically Bradley as a case study. Now the info is there so if anything is wrong it can be seen.

Team sky are doing what all teams should be and being open about training methods and rider stats.

It seems that no matter what a team does some people will see something to have a groan about and try to start rumours.

Im not a team sky fan but I applaud the openness of what they do and other teams should do the same.

 

[Caruut]

I dont see anything strange about what they did at all. In fact it should be applauded. They set out a strategy to be open with the info on their riders,specifically Bradley as a case study. Now the info is there so if anything is wrong it can be seen.

Team sky are doing what all teams should be and being open about training methods and rider stats.

It seems that no matter what a team does some people will see something to have a groan about and try to start rumours.

Im not a team sky fan but I applaud the openness of what they do and other teams should do the same.

What is that, exactly?

 

[noddy69]

What is that, exactly?

Within the article the presentation had training data and power profiles. A full case study of Brad and a quote towards the end of being transparent in what they are doing, to tell people what they are doing to show they are clean..

How open do you want. Surely people should applaud the approach . Rather than wondering about how performances are happening Sky are showing how they have been attained.And according to reports have been for a number of years.But rather than saying Bravo some people deride it and see conspiracy.

It seems some people believe that bike races cannot be won clean, so to win a race you will be accused. On another thread someone posted that Garmin had to be doping cause of their results this year.....yeah surprise on of the favourites wins the Giro. If Bradley does win the tour, and I doubt he will, his stats are there. Yet people go on like its a roswell type of cover up.

 

[will10]

Within the article the presentation had training data and power profiles. A full case study of Brad and a quote towards the end of being transparent in what they are doing, to tell people what they are doing to show they are clean..

How open do you want. Surely people should applaud the approach . Rather than wondering about how performances are happening Sky are showing how they have been attained.And according to reports have been for a number of years.But rather than saying Bravo some people deride it and see conspiracy.

It seems some people believe that bike races cannot be won clean, so to win a race you will be accused. On another thread someone posted that Garmin had to be doping cause of their results this year.....yeah surprise on of the favourites wins the Giro. If Bradley does win the tour, and I doubt he will, his stats are there. Yet people go on like its a roswell type of cover up.

I don't know how long you've been following the sport, but look at the past. It's little wonder that people are a hundred times bitten, twice shy. Unfortunately in cycling, if something's too good to be true, it normally is.

I hope that Sky's emergence and Brad's great shape is a sign of a cleaner peloton. But we've thought that before.

 

[peterst6906]

Yet people go on like its a roswell type of cover up.

That's just the nature of the clinic.

Here everyone is presumed guilty until proven innocent; and as it's not possible to prove innocence, everyone is just guilty.

As long as you approach discussions with that understanding, it's easy to put posts into perspective.

 

[Kerbdog]

Another thread gone down the path of "I dont give a **** cos i think they are all dirty etc etc so **** you & your data files". I said this before & ill say it again no rider can actually prove their clean without being monitored big brother style year round. Here we have Sky presenting all they can pretty much & lads coming on here & lambasting them for it & slinging mud cos they can & it suits them to do so. Let them. Because thats where some lads are at & you wont tell them different. Thats theor opinion & they are entitled to it. Thats a real pity, a real real pity.
Enjoy the Tour all.

 

[noddy69]

I don't know how long you've been following the sport, but look at the past. It's little wonder that people are a hundred times bitten, twice shy. Unfortunately in cycling, if something's too good to be true, it normally is.

I hope that Sky's emergence and Brad's great shape is a sign of a cleaner peloton. But we've thought that before.

Right so that means that teams should just do nothing, not bother with being open because they will just be thought guilty.
I am around a while, so while I know the history it doesnt stop me from applauding when a team wants to be open. As it stands sky are doing just that.

What people should be saying in my humble opinion is why are other teams not doing the exact same thing. If fingers should be pointed surely it should be at those that are a closed book, that would be the logical way to think about it.

 

[JRanton]

One that got away

Should Bradley Wiggins win the Tour de France year, a number of Australians will be lauded for their roles in his success - teammates Michael Rogers and Richie Porte and sports director Shane Sutton. But the Australian most likely to receive the biggest plaudit will be Tim Kerrison. The 40-year-old from Queensland, is a former rowing coach who missed out on the Australian Institute of Sport rowing head coaching job. He was not short of ability. The Toowong Rowing Club member coached the Australian men's lightweight quad scull crew to a gold medal in the 2002 Nations Cup regatta - the under 23 world titles. British Swimming then snapped him up, before he became the Sky team's performance analyst. As Rogers told http://www.ridemedia.com.au this week: “I've seen a five to seven per cent increase in my general threshold power. And that's great. It's also come from working with Tim Kerrison of Team Sky, as Bradley has – and as have most of the guys in the Tour team … we've all been training under his guidance and he's bringing some fresh thoughts into it for all of us. There's a bit of variation and a lot of the techniques have come from his background in swimming. And so far it's been working well.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...s-tour-team-20120620-20olz.html#ixzz1yKnadXhR

 

[Lanark]

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...s-tour-team-20120620-20olz.html#ixzz1yKnadXhR

Wow, that 5 to 7% increase in threshold power, is that compared to his Ferrari days? Why haven't all other teams hired a swimming coach already?

 

[Caruut]

Within the article the presentation had training data and power profiles. A full case study of Brad and a quote towards the end of being transparent in what they are doing, to tell people what they are doing to show they are clean..

How open do you want. Surely people should applaud the approach . Rather than wondering about how performances are happening Sky are showing how they have been attained.And according to reports have been for a number of years.But rather than saying Bravo some people deride it and see conspiracy.

It seems some people believe that bike races cannot be won clean, so to win a race you will be accused. On another thread someone posted that Garmin had to be doping cause of their results this year.....yeah surprise on of the favourites wins the Giro. If Bradley does win the tour, and I doubt he will, his stats are there. Yet people go on like its a roswell type of cover up.

Which article?

 

[taiwan]

It's just that when someone goes from relative anonymity on the road to being a potential Tour winner, in a peloton with a history of widespread PED use, in that scenario what is more likely? That the whole peloton got cleaner or that one rider got dirtier? I'm not stating as fact that Sky are doing that, but I'll retain my suspicions, TYVM.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I dont see anything strange about what they did at all. In fact it should be applauded. They set out a strategy to be open with the info on their riders,specifically Bradley as a case study. Now the info is there so if anything is wrong it can be seen.

Team sky are doing what all teams should be and being open about training methods and rider stats.

It seems that no matter what a team does some people will see something to have a groan about and try to start rumours.

Im not a team sky fan but I applaud the openness of what they do and other teams should do the same.

Can you explain what you are applauding?
I have yet to see Sky being open - they appear to have met ASO and given a presentation. Nothing wrong in that nor surprising.

So I don't understand whats being applauded - so far it appears to be some news reports and PR.

 

[roundabout]

It's just that when someone goes from relative anonymity on the road to being a potential Tour winner, in a peloton with a history of widespread PED use, in that scenario what is more likely? That the whole peloton got cleaner or that one rider got dirtier? I'm not stating as fact that Sky are doing that, but I'll retain my suspicions, TYVM.

The peloton got dirtier because they don't have access to swimming coaches.

 

[Ripper]

That's just the nature of the clinic.

Here everyone is presumed guilty until proven innocent; and as it's not possible to prove innocense, everyone is just guilty.

While I understand where the cynicism comes from, it is not entirely true.

 

[Ferminal]

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...s-tour-team-20120620-20olz.html#ixzz1yKnadXhR

Wow, that 5 to 7% increase in threshold power, is that compared to his Ferrari days? Why haven't all other teams hired a swimming coach already?

It would be good if they could say nothing at all, but I understand they have to feed the press something.

If only he had a swimming coach in 2006 he may have won the Tour. It's almost like they are trolling The Clinic.

 

[noddy69]

Can you explain what you are applauding?
I have yet to see Sky being open - they appear to have met ASO and given a presentation. Nothing wrong in that nor surprising.

So I don't understand whats being applauded - so far it appears to be some news reports and PR.

Some are having a go calling it a strange meeting etc. Now rather than answer what is clearly a sarcastic dig Ill ask you one back.
Did Katusha do the same with stats etc for Denis G and the rest of the guys ?

If they did its a normal question, if they didnt take it in a sacastic tone

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Some are having a go calling it a strange meeting etc. Now rather than answer what is clearly a sarcastic dig Ill ask you one back.
Did Katusha do the same with stats etc for Denis G and the rest of the guys ?

If they did its a normal question, if they didnt take it in a sacastic tone

Sarcastic- you mean the meeting? Not at all. Other teams and individuals meet organizers. Cycling is a small world - of course they will meet.

So rather than getting all defensive - you said you applauded it, I am wondering what there is to applaud?
Because if it is based on PR than that's just cheer leading, and that's a chant I have heard before.
(ps - now thats sarcasm)

 

[noddy69]

Sarcastic- you mean the meeting? Not at all. Other teams and individuals meet organizers. Cycling is a small world - of course they will meet.

So rather than getting all defensive - you said you applauded it, I am wondering what there is to applaud?
Because if it is based on PR than that's just cheer leading, and that's a chant I have heard before.
(ps - now thats sarcasm)

Well if it was PR its been done every year even before they gained their pro tour licence without the exposure.
As for been done before....did Lance give his details before the tour every year? Is that normal when they meet to hand over that amount of info ?
It wasnt like it was a chat for the sake of it over a cup of tea, and going to the press it goes some way to eliminating talk of secret meetings...but of course people will still find a way to knock it and create rumours out of what is necessarily a good thing.

Sky feel the need in the current climate to do just that, they didnt have to do it, so that I applaud.If you dont agree with that thats your business.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well if it was PR its been done every year even before they gained their pro tour licence without the exposure.
As for been done before....did Lance give his details before the tour every year? Is that normal when they meet to hand over that amount of info ?
It wasnt like it was a chat for the sake of it over a cup of tea, and going to the press it goes some way to eliminating talk of secret meetings...but of course people will still find a way to knock it and create rumours out of what is necessarily a good thing.

Sky feel the need in the current climate to do just that, they didnt have to do it, so that I applaud.If you dont agree with that thats your business.

If you wish to applaud that, then that's your right.
But you don't appear to know what went on or what was presented - you are taking your cues from a press release from Sky issued after it became known they met with ASO.


And you don't want to bring up Lance, it would expose that he met with ASO shortly after he announced his comeback to smooth over his return (as the 06 presentation suggested he would be persona non grata) and that Clerc was sacked. They are a business and they saw the dollar signs.

 

[2008885]

But you don't appear to know what went on or what was presented

And neither do you - or were you there?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And neither do you - or were you there?

Which is why I am not applauding it.

 

[noddy69]

Which is why I am not applauding it.

I wasnt there your right. But I stand by what I said. Sky have come out with what is basically an anti doping press release. They have nothing to hide and are trying to be transparent . Yes thats from sky but if it was complete rubbish then they wouldnt say it as it could easily be disputed and rubbished. With the sponsor they have they are not going to want to start messing around so I think I will take the logical route and go with what they have said.

I dont see the same releases from other teams, giving rider stats etc
So on that I believe they are doing the right thing and other teams should follow suit. If they are already doing it then release the statements.
Its clearly a good way to do things.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I wasnt there your right. But I stand by what I said. Sky have come out with what is basically an anti doping press release. They have nothing to hide and are trying to be transparent .

Pro cycling has had over a decade of anti-doping press releases. Here's one message off the top of my head "Cleanest Tour ever." Insist that Sky's motivations are pure if you will, but understand there's so much anti-doping press release history in Pro Cycling that the next one is likely as false as the last 20 years worth.

So on that I believe they are doing the right thing and other teams should follow suit. If they are already doing it then release the statements.
Its clearly a good way to do things.

Your pure-of-heart "right way" is probably not what it seems. Pro cycling loves people like you. You are probably being set up for another round of doping confessions/busts in a few years. I wish it weren't so, but there's so much history it's impossible not to consider.

 

[taiwan]

They have nothing to hide and are trying to be transparent.

I do not own a dog.

Am I being transparent, with nothing to hide?

Anti doping statements mean nothing, in fact they're pretty much obligatory. But tbh I haven't read this one either.