Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Cerberus]

Can you explain why a world class pursuit rider cannot become a world class road time trialist and why a world class road time trialist cannot become a GC contender?

You seem to be missing my point. First of all that kind of imporvements in GT's simply did not happen in any Tour winner between WW2 and the invention of EPO. After the invention of EPO it became commonplace. That does lend itself to a rather obvious conclusion.

Secondly it's not just that he transformed, it's that he transformed in a way (loosing weight) that should have made him worse in TTs and particularly short TT but instead he gets better there to.

If these 3 events are SO incompatible then we would expect there to be little cross over either way. We would not expect successful road cyclists to perform successfully on the track either.

Not necesarilly true, road cycling i the big brother of the sport, more money and prestige, and so that's where most of the top talent goes.

If you or anyone starts going down the "recovery" angle then you really have no clue about the training practices of world class track riders versus world class road cyclists. Who do you think trains at higher intensity on a regular basis for a lot of their career? So who would need better recovery?

I suppose the people who have to perform over 3 weeks 4-6 hours per day. I do not in fact know a great deal about track cyclists training schedules, but I do know that their actual performance is 4 minutes. Probably several time 4 minutes but still.

IDoes anyone know anything about Charlie Walsh and his training methods?

Does anyone know about the training methods of every world record holding 4km men's pursuit team for the past 12yrs?

I'm sure somebody knows, but I'm not one of them, would you like to explain what you point is?

A 4min event is about 85% aerobic. A stage of the TdF is about 98% aerobic. Not that far apart.

It's not just a % aerobic, though I'm not sure that 85% and 98% is as close as you think. It's also the flat road vs. climbing. Weight loss should not make Wiggins better at both.

 

[Normandy]

lol you'd think the Team Sly heavies would silence this scatter-brain. Funny though.

By Team Sky PR heavy do you mean Fran Millar? That should be an interesting exchange to watch

 

[The Chicken]

By Team Sky PR heavy do you mean Fran Millar? That should be an interesting exchange to watch

Has there been a thread/discussion on Fran Millar? I'm guessing there has. Interested to learn more about her and how she fits into this scam. (Of course I know she's David's sister.)

 

[fatsprintking]

Warrnie is a 299km race:

In the Melbourne to Warrnambool Classic Woods set the record of 5h 12m in 1990.

what do you mean he couldn't keep up?

And still got spat out the back in Europe....

 

[TheEnoculator]

I simply can't watch the Tour anymore. Sky is too ridicuolous. They have been destroying the peleton all season. I just find it hard to believe a whole team can peak like this all season long.

 

[roundabout]

Lulz @ at Sky on the Col du Granier.

 

[cleanmarine]

TJVG interview today. Loved the smirk when talking about Sky. And the Mona Lisa smile while talking about Froome was fantastic.

 

[thehog]

Warrnie is a 299km race:

In the Melbourne to Warrnambool Classic Woods set the record of 5h 12m in 1990.

what do you mean he couldn't keep up?

I know Dean. He was a good rider. And yes could road race. But when he went to Italy he suffered a lot. He was never going to win the Tour de France but was a good rider. It exemplifies the ridiculousness of Wiggins.

 

[thingswelike]

Those who have been wanting Brad to be clear on his stance:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

 

[goggalor]

Bradley Wiggins: I can never dope because it would cost me everything: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

Good article. Almost turns a cynic like me into a believer... in Bradley that is, not in Rogers, Porte, Froome.

Edit: beaten like blood test.

 

[thehog]

Those who have been wanting Brad to be clear on his stance:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

I love one of the comments:

"The real strength of Bradley Wiggins is that he can write, upload, and publish this while riding at the head of the peloton in Stage 12. Now that's skill. Not even a typo!"

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Some pr written or he himself really wrote it. Anyways for me its Rogers and froome that has always been the lol.

 

[Cerberus]

Those who have been wanting Brad to be clear on his stance:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

That's a fine article, it's IMO everything that a clean winner would say (save that I dislike the "I don't dope because I'm British" part). Sadly of cause it's also everything that a doper who wanted to appear clean would say.

 

[Machu Picchu]

Bradley Wiggins: I can never dope because it would cost me everything: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

Good article. Almost turns a cynic like me into a believer... in Bradley that is, not in Rogers, Porte, Froome.

Edit: beaten like blood test.

Just out of interest what was it that made you change your mind in the article?_?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

That's a fine article, it's IMO everything that a clean winner would say (save that I dislike the "I don't dope because I'm British" part). Sadly of cause it's also everything that a doper who wanted to appear clean would say.

I really hate that statement. Some here have even makes it their discussion point....like the brits have high moral superiority.

 

[The Chicken]

Wow. I am speechless. I really don't know what to say. So there's no point in even posting this, but still...

 

[thingswelike]

That's a fine article, it's IMO everything that a clean winner would say (save that I dislike the "I don't dope because I'm British" part). Sadly of cause it's also everything that a doper who wanted to appear clean would say.

But strangely enough, they never do.
Can you find me a piece similar in tone to this ever written/said by someone since caught for doping?

 

[Machu Picchu]

Wow. I am speechless. I really don't know what to say. So there's no point in even posting this, but still...

Speechless! why?

I feel that I'm missing something from this article, like other people are seeing something which doesn't read just like a good pr story would?_?

 

[thingswelike]

I really hate that statement. Some here have even makes it their discussion point....like the brits have high moral superiority.

I don't think he's saying that - just that the newspapers (perhaps a reflection of the public) are very very quick to hate. It's awful to see just how quickly heros can become villains in the press. It's not something to be proud of, but I can see that it's something to fear once you start being put on a pedestal.

Just look at the recent furore over Millar/Olympics and that's over an issue going back many years and with all the work he's since done to improve matters.

 

[The Chicken]

He says all that yet there is still no way I can believe. I had to stew on it for about 10 seconds but there is still no way. If they get rumbled... oh my days...

 

[simoni]

I really hate that statement. Some here have even makes it their discussion point....like the brits have high moral superiority.

All countries are different. Generally speaking the great British public looks on dopers and sporting cheaters pretty poorly so theres a lot to lose. It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis at the end of the day. What are the consequences of getting caught?

Dwain Chambers is probably the highest profile case in recent years and he'll have suffered heavily financially and his reputation because of it.

I look on in wonder at the way confirmed cheats in other countries are "rehabilitated". In Spain Contador, Valverde have been barely affected, Museeuw is still a legend in Belgium, Virenque comes out smelling of roses in France and Pantani is revered in Italy. That just wouldn't happen here.

However we have **** food, get horribly drunk all the time and have a disgusting chav underclass that has no respect for itself or anyone else. And it rains.

(And PS, I'm looking on at Sky in wonder as well. I want to believe but they're making it very tough. As for Wiggins, actions, as ever, speak louder than words. Lets have some transparency. Explain why you and Froome don't just looks like contenders but world beaters).

 

[roundabout]

It's a good piece. Still the contrast between saying "you're all ****ers for doubting me" (apologies, but I had to use the bad word to make my point better) and this extremely image-conscious piece is a bit jarring.

 

[joe_papp]

...It comes down to a cost-benefit analysis at the end of the day. What are the consequences of getting caught?...

Actually, even more relevant is the likelihood of getting caught.

 

[Cerberus]

But strangely enough, they never do.
Can you find me a piece similar in tone to this ever written/said by someone since caught for doping?

I don't keep a mental catalogue of plausible sounding denials, but you can't seriously think that a well-written and well prepared press release is meaningful evidence of him being clean.

 

[goggalor]

Just out of interest what was it that made you change your mind in the article?_?

Well it's pretty convincing, isn't it?

But I haven't really changed my mind. For me Wiggo's performance is not the most suspicious, it's Team Sky's, the way they pull all day and arrive at the final climb completely in control, then set an infernal pace and end up with 4 guys in a group of 8, including Mick "Freiburg" Rogers and Chris "Borderline" Froome.

It does kind of stink of PR, though, even if Wiggins has written similar article in the past.