Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Aug 18, 2009
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The Tibetan Hat said:
Could it also be that the field is pretty weak so far as challengers to Wiggins and Sky go? Cadel was the oldest post-war TdF winner last year, so perhaps his powers always likely to decline, so too the whole Basso, Leipy, Menchov, Kloden generation, then the Schleck boys are either busy crashing or moping, same goes for Gesink, plenty of other contenders have crashed out and apart from the still developing talents of guys like Molema, all that really leaves is Nibbles and Van den Broeck who have shown anything like decent form.
If a money-bags outfit like Sky who've signed a team of genuinely talented riders as genuine super-domestiques to support a rider the perfect age and vintage to win a Grand Tour wasn't dominating there'd be something wrong, and we probably think they must be losing to a bunch of dopers.

Again, it's "maybe everyone else is just having a bad Tour", for various reasons. And all of Sky are in top shape. Like the "new training methods", the whole rest of the peloton is being casually dismissed as amateurish. It just doesn't satisfy as an explanation. Also, Wiggins and Froome are possibly the 2 GC riders with the least plausible career progressions. You have to be skeptical.
 
Jul 13, 2012
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Brailsford's contract

Coming from a different angle... does anyone have a good idea what sort of contract Brailsford would have with Sky?

I'm guessing there must be a pretty decent basic with some very big performance objective bonuses together with some minimum requirements to hit. Would it be reasonable to think a Tour podium within two years and a win within four years? Four years would tie in with Wiggins four year deal from 2010.

2010 was a farily disastrous Tour for Wiggins, especially so after training solely for the Tour, and I seem to remember him suggesting that his 2009 fourth was probably a fluke. I imagine Brailsford would have been sat scratching his head, furtively scouring through his graphs, wondering where on earth he could squeeze out few more marginal gains. Was it about this time that the good doctor Leinders was contracted? But really - what sort of pressure would Brailsford have been under after the 2010 Tour?
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Pedlar of pain said:
Coming from a different angle... does anyone have a good idea what sort of contract Brailsford would have with Sky?

I'm guessing there must be a pretty decent basic with some very big performance objective bonuses together with some minimum requirements to hit. Would it be reasonable to think a Tour podium within two years and a win within four years? Four years would tie in with Wiggins four year deal from 2010.

2010 was a farily disastrous Tour for Wiggins, especially so after training solely for the Tour, and I seem to remember him suggesting that his 2009 fourth was probably a fluke. I imagine Brailsford would have been sat scratching his head, furtively scouring through his graphs, wondering where on earth he could squeeze out few more marginal gains. Was it about this time that the good doctor Leinders was contracted? But really - what sort of pressure would Brailsford have been under after the 2010 Tour?

Can't seem to find out who the owner of the team is. BSkyB (the parent company of Sky) are the sponsor, is the team owned by Brailsford, British Cycling or someone else?
 
Oct 30, 2011
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In Britain, while the attitude towards convicted cheats is a little rabid, the willingness to lap up pathetic excuses is quite high. Kolo Touré (an Ivorian footballer formerly of Arsenal and now with Man City) tested positive for a weight-loss drug - it took me about 10 minutes to convince a couple of friends that this was even doping. The media are very keen to play up the ridiculous "Contaminated supplements" or "Accidental ingestion" stories.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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thehog said:
I'm off the wall...

LOL, you wish. :D

(A clean peloton would be a total nightmare :p. Think about it. No vicarious catharsis of the guilty and innocent=no meaning=emptiness=fan dysthymia).
 
Caruut said:
In Britain, while the attitude towards convicted cheats is a little rabid, the willingness to lap up pathetic excuses is quite high. Kolo Touré (an Ivorian footballer formerly of Arsenal and now with Man City) tested positive for a weight-loss drug - it took me about 10 minutes to convince a couple of friends that this was even doping. The media are very keen to play up the ridiculous "Contaminated supplements" or "Accidental ingestion" stories.

I will add Rio Ferdinand missed doping case

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2003/dec/18/newsstory.sport

excerpts

Rio Ferdinand's doping case looks set to claim its first high-profile victim even before his two-day hearing begins at Bolton's Reebok Stadium today with Michele Verroken, the woman who oversaw the test missed by the £30m Manchester United and England defender, being forced to resign from UK Sport.

Verroken, UK Sport's head of ethics and anti-doping, looks certain to pay the price for Ferdinand's name becoming public, which has so angered the Professional Footballers' Association chief executive Gordon Taylor that he has threatened to pull his members out of all tests with UK Sport.

Verroken was told at a meeting on Tuesday with Sue Campbell, the interim chair of UK Sport, that she has no future in her role with the agency that oversees the development of elite athletes and drug testing in British sport.

She is now on paid leave at home and John Scott, the director of international relations and major events, has filled her role temporarily.

**** Pound, chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency, expressed his regret. "She's been the face of British anti-doping for a number of years," he said. "One thing she's always argued for is, if you have a doping agency, it has been independent. Otherwise there are obvious dangers."

It was Verroken to whom the drug testers reported Ferdinand's failure to turn up for the test at Manchester United's training ground at Carrington on September 23.

Taylor blamed Verroken for Ferdinand's name being released to the media and claimed it would prejudice his chances of receiving a fair hearing when he appears before the Football Association, which can ban him for up to two years. But Taylor himself, sources at Manchester United and Ferdinand's agent Pini Zahavi all confirmed Ferdinand as the player who had broken drug regulations.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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mastersracer said:
Nibali posted his SRM file from yesterday. http://www.srm.de/index.php/us/srm-blog/tour-de-france/737

Col de la Madeleine 5.03 watts/kg
Croix de Fer 5.2 watts/kg
Toussuire 5.62 watts/kg - finished 3rd, same time as Wiggins

The Sky doping conspiracy theory is funny with these kinds of numbers...

I prefer the graph cyclesportmag did about Brailsford's rider analysis in May 2011

DBgraphhires.jpg


It's interesting to see where "CF" is:rolleyes:

 
May 19, 2011
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thehog said:
That is the funniest thing I've ever seen! Hana.... I thought Brailsford was saying CF had good numbers?

It just shows Brailsford is full of ****.

That graph is probably the natural talent potential of the the rider.

We all know when PED is used, natural potential does not matter that much anymore, it is all about who might have the best induction result under the PED regime, it may or may not be the the best natural potential rider.
 
May 19, 2011
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Forunculo said:
I prefer the graph cyclesportmag did about Brailsford's rider analysis in May 2011

DBgraphhires.jpg


It's interesting to see where "CF" is:rolleyes:

It just shows Brailsford is full of ****.

That graph is probably the natural talent potential of the the rider.

We all know when PED is used, natural potential does not matter that much anymore, it is all about who might have the best induction result under the PED regime, it may or may not be the the best natural potential rider.
 
Apr 29, 2009
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Di Gregorio 2/10.....Even funnier is Cancellara 0/10, but his bike got a 10/10.

This has been the most boring race since 2005. I think this is why we have the Sky Postal chatter.
 

mastersracer

BANNED
Jun 8, 2010
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Caruut said:
Care to explain why?

The first two climbs were not very fast - there is nothing extraordinary about a decent (not great) protour rider pacing the GC group at a rate of 5 watts/kg.

The final climb is substantially slower than even recent Tour finishes, such as 2010 stage 17 (third week of Tour compared to second, and a longer stage) on Tourmalet. Horner's SRM file was the topic of Tucker's blog - Horner averaged 5.6 watts/kg and was dropped on 2010 Tourmalet, losing almost 2 minutes on that stage. A rider such as Horner, (who weighs about the same as Nibali), would have, according to Tucker a VO2max of 66 ml/kg/min based on that performance. Nothing physiologically remarkable about this performance.

Wiggins struggled to match even this pace. The notion that Sky is putting out extraordinarily suspicious performances is not consistent with these indicators.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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thehog said:
That is the funniest thing I've ever seen! Hana.... I thought Brailsford was saying CF had good numbers?


Their sponsor owned by News Corporation. A small lie is an easy job for Dave and Team Sky


maxmartin said:
It just shows Brailsford is full of ****.

That graph is probably the natural talent potential of the the rider.

We all know when PED is used, natural potential does not matter that much anymore, it is all about who might have the best induction result under the PED regime, it may or may not be the the best natural potential rider.

Froome deserve a specific thread in the clinic with this graph:eek:
 
Mar 4, 2010
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mastersracer said:
Nibali posted his SRM file from yesterday. http://www.srm.de/index.php/us/srm-blog/tour-de-france/737

Col de la Madeleine 5.03 watts/kg
Croix de Fer 5.2 watts/kg
Toussuire 5.62 watts/kg - finished 3rd, same time as Wiggins

The Sky doping conspiracy theory is funny with these kinds of numbers...

So did Jani.

http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/5IGQQZ4XINBIKWQQZFEQZA2YIE

Col de la Croix Fer (HC): 68', 316w (5.2w/kg)

La Toussuire (HC climb): 46' 337w (5.6w/kg)

Someone's La T numbers are wrong.

Horner averaged 5.6 watts/kg... on 2010 Tourmalet... A rider such as Horner, (who weighs about the same as Nibali), would have, according to Tucker a VO2max of 66 ml/kg/min based on that performance.

Eh, no.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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gooner said:
I don't see how you can convince anyone that it was blatant doping. When that was announced WADA said it is one that is "more susceptible to a credible, non-doping explanation". That is because of its general availability in medicines. The minute it came out in the open Toure rang Arsene Wenger( who was the first to go public with the cause of the positive) and admitted his stupidity in taking his wife's diet pills. The commission who judged that case said Toure did not intend to enhance sporting performance or to mask the use of a performance enhancing substance but nonetheless you are responsible for what gets into your system so he got banned for 6 months.

In what way is a sportsman taking a weight-loss product not doping?

These clubs are big businesses, you can bet that the clubs will have made it pretty clear that you don't take any pills at all without clearing it with the club.

Not saying Touré thought he was doping, but if a cyclist got popped for it and confessed, not only would we be all over it here in the clinic, but the media and public in the UK would treat it as doping.
 
Sep 18, 2010
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Forunculo said:
I prefer the graph cyclesportmag did about Brailsford's rider analysis in May 2011

DBgraphhires.jpg


It's interesting to see where "CF" is:rolleyes:

To be fair, weren't those rider positions Cycle Sports estimates, rather than something from Brailsford?

(Or did they ask DB about each rider and then place that rider according to DB's comments?)