Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[_frost]

Yup. And since the dawn of the EPO era, there have been no shortages of "reasons" as to why previous non-contenders have become champions. All of which sound like Hulk Hogan espousing the virtue of doing your training, saying your prayers, and eating your vitamins.

And for me, it's too hard to ignore the simplest answer.

Well, if climbing is a fight against the gravity I cannot think of simpler answer than losing weight...

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Well, if climbing is a fight against the gravity I cannot think of simpler answer than losing weight...

By making it a moot point with additional aerobic power??

 

[Darryl Webster]

Pipe down Darryl, or start naming names.
I personally have called you out on this before, and you went quiet
Care to back up some of your "snippets "?
By the way, I have heard many rumours about you over the years
Just snippets mind....

Firstly, as you well know , stating in public forum stuff that is, effectively, my word and nothing I can provide evidence for , including what I,ve seen with my own eyes, that would prevent legal potential action against myself and Cyclingnews.com means I cant give names. That,s the world we live in and I couldn't give a feck if you or anyone else believes me. Secondly, seeing as I,m here and not hiding behind any nick name feel free to ask me about any rumours you may have heard regards my self . I can tell you exactly when I've been injected, what was in the injections ( vit b6) and the two occasions I used ATP , a substance used in access that could have produced a positive.
I doubt you,d believe a word .

 

[Normandy]

After Wiggins' Guardian piece, I left a comment reminding him that when Puerto happened he said, "There's no smoke without fire," in reference to all of the riders who had been pulled from the 2006 Tour. He said it was "Quite brilliant, really" in a confident and self-satisfied tone. I liked that at the time, and even mentioned in my comment on the Guardian website that I had been a fan for years.

I mentioned that I liked his attitude about doping then, but that, given how he finished in 123rd place, well over 3 hours down in that Tour, it was hard to imagine how I couldn't put 1 and 1 together now and draw some conclusions when comparing his performance then to now. I mentioned that the transformation looked unbelievable to me. I quoted him accurately and stayed on topic. The comment was deleted because, supposedly, it didn't abide by the Guardian's comments sections rules, even though I couldn't find a rule I had broken, nor did I ever aim to do so or flame him with that comment.

What a joke. The result being that I believe him even less now than before and also hold The Guardian complicit in his deception.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-danger-of-public-relations-disguised-as-nationalistic-fervour/

I wonder what Sky PR/ the Guardian will make of this?

 

[Caruut]

Could you elaborate further for me? Are you saying that training and targeting track events specifically would have no effect on tour preparation?

I'm not saying it would have had no effect, not in the slightest. Obviously for trackies keeping racing weight down isn't nearly as important as it is for road riders. He was a top level track rider though - there's no way that the 10kg he lost was 10kg of useless weight. Despite losing all that weight, he is now better at TTs - long TTs especially, but he is also about as good at prologues. Since a prologue is essentially a rather technical IP, I find it hard to reconcile the idea that weight loss and shifted focus is the only change.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

It’s like Sky actually designed the course themselves…. oh wait they probably did

Good post, mate. Didn't they say they have a yearly meeting with they andy schleck organisation?

 

[_frost]

By making it a moot point with additional aerobic power??

Sorry, don't quite get you (I am not english speaker)

 

[andy1234]

Firstly, as you well know , stating in public forum stuff that is, effectively, my word and nothing I can provide evidence for , including what I,ve seen with my own eyes, that would prevent legal potential action against myself and Cyclingnews.com means I cant give names. That,s the world we live in and I couldn't give a feck if you or anyone else believes me. Secondly, seeing as I,m here and not hiding behind any nick name feel free to ask me about any rumours you may have heard regards my self . I can tell you exactly when I've been injected, what was in the injections ( vit b6) and the two occasions I used ATP , a substance used in access that could have produced a positive.
I doubt you,d believe a word .

Actually Darryl, I would believe you, I'm not the one claiming "snippets" have any value
As to what you have seen with your own eyes, let me guess, he's Australian and has a tache?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's where you're first hand experience ends?
By hiding behind the "I heard" BS, you might as well be posting under an assumed name for all the relevance it has.

 

[armchairclimber]

I see you're all still crackers.

"I don't believe it"
"No way is that possible"
I know jack **** about the physiology of elite athletes but if I see anyone improving their performance, there's only one possible cause...JUICE"

The Clinic is up there with the flying saucer/nibiru/end of the world conspiracy sites for hilarious lunacy. Reading it, I'm tempted to draw Ockham's Razor across my wrist.

 

[Benotti69]

I see you're all still crackers.

"I don't believe it"
"No way is that possible"
I know jack **** about the physiology of elite athletes but if I see anyone improving their performance, there's only one possible cause...JUICE"

The Clinic is up there with the flying saucer/nibiru/end of the world conspiracy sites for hilarious lunacy. Reading it, I'm tempted to draw Ockham's Razor across my wrist.

I presume since you posted you must have read it!

Hope you stop the bleeding in the next 24 hours.

 

[function]

I'm not saying it would have had no effect, not in the slightest. Obviously for trackies keeping racing weight down isn't nearly as important as it is for road riders. He was a top level track rider though - there's no way that the 10kg he lost was 10kg of useless weight. Despite losing all that weight, he is now better at TTs - long TTs especially, but he is also about as good at prologues. Since a prologue is essentially a rather technical IP, I find it hard to reconcile the idea that weight loss and shifted focus is the only change.

Certainly it's fair to question him still being able to turn a good prologue although i doubt he could still win the individual pursuit at Worlds.

My main contention was that he would have the energy and focus to still get road results whilst focusing on the IP for Worlds and the Olympics. I just don't consider pre 2009 as Wiggins committing himself to the road.

 

[function]

I presume since you posted you must have read it!

Hope you stop the bleeding in the next 24 hours.

Can't blame him for saying that, there have been all sorts of comments with not much physiological/scientific backing apart from "what my eyes tell me".

 

[Darryl Webster]

By hiding behind the "I heard" BS, you might as well be posting under an assumed name for all the relevance it has.

Well I guess that depends were said snippets come from and what credibility I choose to give them. When they include two former World champions and one multi National national champion and are volunteered to me independently and separably then I begin to give them credibility. Of course they could all be making it up..
I've no idea who you are, your profile gives nothing. I wonder why?

 

[armchairclimber]

I presume since you posted you must have read it!

Hope you stop the bleeding in the next 24 hours.

I like reading it...it's funny. Joseph Heller would have been proud of some of the madness. In the Clinic, everyone is guilty until proven innocent....which is, of course, impossible. So everyone is guilty.

 

[pleyser]

cynical

Is the Clinic a cynical place? Sure. Many observers of the sport in this forum have been jaded by cycling's history: years of doping scandals, denials, complicity by the sport's governing body, etc. In cycling, the cynical view has often proven to be the most realistic/reasonable view.

 

[armchairclimber]

Is the Clinic a cynical place? Sure. Many observers of the sport in this forum have been jaded by cycling's history: years of doping scandals, denials, complicity by the sport's governing body, etc. In cycling, the cynical view has often proven to be the most realistic/reasonable view.

There's a difference between cynicism and sclerosis. The Clinic is aptly named, peopled as it is by people incurably jaundiced. Still, as I said, there's entertainment to be had watching you all stew in your own bile.

 

[Caruut]

I see you're all still crackers.

"I don't believe it"
"No way is that possible"
I know jack **** about the physiology of elite athletes but if I see anyone improving their performance, there's only one possible cause...JUICE"

The Clinic is up there with the flying saucer/nibiru/end of the world conspiracy sites for hilarious lunacy. Reading it, I'm tempted to draw Ockham's Razor across my wrist.

Occam's razor, you say?

Now, the situation as I know it is this; you have a quite clearly corrupt governing body of the sport, and a very rich team prepared to open up a potentially lucrative new market for cycling.

Given these facts, I think the simplest explanation is that commercial interests have been exploited and that Sky are protected. They're just using dope that's old news, that other teams are afraid to touch. It's happened before - why not again? This time they might have learned from their mistakes.

 

[Square-pedaller]

"I’ve lost count how many times I’ve been tested this week"
Probably over 500

 

[andy1234]

Well I guess that depends were said snippets come from and what credibility I choose to give them. When they include two former World champions and one multi National national champion and are volunteered to me independently and separably then I begin to give them credibility. Of course they could all be making it up..
I've no idea who you are, your profile gives nothing. I wonder why?

My profile gives nothing because that's the way I like it.

I do know how much access you have to the inner workings of BC though, which gives me a reasonable insight into the relevance of your insinuations.

 

[taiwan]

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-danger-of-public-relations-disguised-as-nationalistic-fervour/

I wonder what Sky PR/ the Guardian will make of this?

What I wonder is will OGE, who as it's acknowldged in that article are simply the Australian Sky, produce a Tour winner in a few years time. Quite interesting how trackie Cameron Meyer's developing actually, although it doesn't help the case in this thread.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I see you're all still crackers.

"I don't believe it"
"No way is that possible"
I know jack **** about the physiology of elite athletes but if I see anyone improving their performance, there's only one possible cause...JUICE"

The Clinic is up there with the flying saucer/nibiru/end of the world conspiracy sites for hilarious lunacy. Reading it, I'm tempted to draw Ockham's Razor across my wrist.

It's not so much improving, but absolutely transforming their performances. The EPO era has 20+ years of cyclist doing that.

 

[thehog]

My profile gives nothing because that's the way I like it.

I do know how much access you have to the inner workings of BC though, which gives me a reasonable insight into the relevance of your insinuations.

Steady on andy1234. You’ll be eating humble pie again. Step away.

 

[badboygolf16v]

There's a difference between cynicism and sclerosis. The Clinic is aptly named, peopled as it is by people incurably jaundiced. Still, as I said, there's entertainment to be had watching you all stew in your own bile.

I wonder if our incurable jaundice will spread after the evidence in the Armstrong case is revealed.

I do hope so.

 

[andy1234]

Steady on andy1234. You’ll be eating humble pie again. Step away.

I think not Hoggy.
Any more quizzes for me? I do enjoy your little challenges.

 

[BroDeal]

There's a difference between cynicism and sclerosis. The Clinic is aptly named, peopled as it is by people incurably jaundiced. Still, as I said, there's entertainment to be had watching you all stew in your own bile.

Not half as much entertainment that is to be had by watching the flat earthers, who all seem to be jingoistic British, wig(go) out over people suspecting the ludicrous rise of U.S. Postal, version 2,0. You can easily envision these sad sacks screaming at their computers when reading threads they know will be filled with doubts about their idol. It is pretty funny.

I am sorry you still believe in unicorns.