Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the big ring]

I think you're pushing the "infinite funds of Sky" rumour too far.
"Team Sky is not richest team in cycling. BMC, Astana & Katusha" to name a few are more so. And Sky, the media company, are involved in british cycling, not just Team Sky. Both Sky and british cycling, and british sport, have a lot to lose if Team Sky aren't clean. I'm less inclined than many here to jump to conclusions, and the default state must be to think innocent till evidence to the contrary. Though i do agree, Leinders is worrying.
But can you give me a link please to the Brailsford interview you speak of with reference to viruses? I can't find it. It would be good to read, thanks

Lots of posts defending a team you appear to know SFA about?

Sky spent 2 million pounds in one year on transfer fees. If that's not close enough to "infinite" funds, please tell me what is, when you consider there are only 3 employees (hope I'm not going too fast for you here) with the rest being contractors.

ETA: apologies - sincerely for the tone, but it's hard to accept people jumping in and demanding evidence, then 2 posts later you realise they don't know a thing, and are asking for evidence of things people who've been around a bit have known for some time.

 

[bobbins]

Did they expand as to what this information was to be used for?

No they didn't, it may have been a bit of spin to try to feebly justify his recruitment

 

[OldManThyme]

Though you could argue that for pretty much any team i.e. Team doping = Bad for sponsor. (On a side note didn't Festina sales actually go up after 98?)

Yes, definitely. but not for every team that it would have such far reaching consequences as with British cycling. That was what i said.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Yes, definitely. but not for every team that it would have such far reaching consequences as with British cycling. That was what i said.

Why would they be any different to doping that has gone on in, say, US cycling?Look at US Postal using federal money to fund their doping? If you believe Astana have a doping culture that that is funded by the state. The list goes on... Why thing GB cycling would be any different?

 

[User Guide]

Why would they be any different to doping that has gone on in, say, US cycling?Look at US Postal using federal money to fund their doping? If you believe Astana have a doping culture that that is funded by the state. The list goes on... Why thing GB cycling would be any different?

Dave Brailsford

 

[OldManThyme]

No they didn't, it may have been a bit of spin to try to feebly justify his recruitment

use a thief to catch a thief?

 

[OldManThyme]

Lots of posts defending a team you appear to know SFA about?

Sky spent 2 million pounds in one year on transfer fees. If that's not close enough to "infinite" funds, please tell me what is, when you consider there are only 3 employees (hope I'm not going too fast for you here) with the rest being contractors.

ETA: apologies - sincerely for the tone, but it's hard to accept people jumping in and demanding evidence, then 2 posts later you realise they don't know a thing, and are asking for evidence of things people who've been around a bit have known for some time.

apologies? You sound a zealot. I'm asking for evidence since that is what is required to make statements that you want others to believe to fervently. Didn't know it was a crime here to ask a simple question. But as you were.

 

[the big ring]

apologies? You sound a zealot. I'm asking for evidence since that is what is required to make statements that you want others to believe to fervently. Didn't know it was a crime here to ask a simple question. But as you were.

You also sound like a zealot. And know nothing about a team you are defending vociferously.

What level of funding do you call a team that can afford to pay another team 2 million pounds for a transfer?

Not infinite, no, but it seems quite a lot.

Or do you disagree?

Don't suppose you're from the good ol' UK perchance? Tootle pip and all that eh what?

 

[OldManThyme]

Why would they be any different to doping that has gone on in, say, US cycling?Look at US Postal using federal money to fund their doping? If you believe Astana have a doping culture that that is funded by the state. The list goes on... Why thing GB cycling would be any different?

Madoff is in finance. Say you work in finance. Madoff is a criminal. You are a criminal?

I do worry about Sky. But i don't go round saying they're doped.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Madoff is in finance. Say you work in finance. Madoff is a criminal. You are a criminal?

I do worry about Sky. But i don't go round saying they're doped.

That seems the wrong analogy for your argument. You are saying Madoff would not commit a crime because his company would have too much to lose.

I don't think there is doping in a team sense.

 

[Benotti69]

I think you're pushing the "infinite funds of Sky" rumour too far.
"Team Sky is not richest team in cycling. BMC, Astana & Katusha" to name a few are more so. And Sky, the media company, are involved in british cycling, not just Team Sky. Both Sky and british cycling, and british sport, have a lot to lose if Team Sky aren't clean. I'm less inclined than many here to jump to conclusions, and the default state must be to think innocent till evidence to the contrary. Though i do agree, Leinders is worrying.
But can you give me a link please to the Brailsford interview you speak of with reference to viruses? I can't find it. It would be good to read, thanks

“When someone dies on your team and you feel you’re putting riders at risk… for all we knew the riders could have had the same thing.

“We sat down and realised that as a group of people we did not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat, with extreme fatigue. We were making calls like ‘no, on you go mate’.”

Two days before the start of the Tour, Brailsford talked to Cycle Sport about the decision to hiring Dr Leinders. He admitted that he should have addressed the issue publicly in May, when De Rooy made his claims. However, he said he would not judge until he had determined all the facts.

To use the death of someone to justify hiring a doping Doctor like Leinders is disgusting. I have said it before and i again i still think it is disgusting.

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

again here

Brailsford said that the team employed the doctor following widespread illnesses suffered by the team in the 2010 Vuelta, plus the death from a virus of one of the soigneurs, Txema Gonzalez. “We had all these riders sick going: ‘What is going on? This isn’t good enough.’ And you think: ‘We’re putting these guys at risk here.’ We sat down afterwards and we said: ‘We do not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat and extreme fatigue.’”

The team had previously stated that it would only employ British doctors with no cycling background; Brailsford said that the Vuelta experience meant that it decided to change its stance.

“That’s why we decided to go and get him. Has he been a good doctor? Brilliant. The guy really understands. It’s not about doping, it’s about genuine medical practice.”

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...s-role-with-Sky-Procycling.aspx#ixzz24aMCGYUq

"it’s about genuine medical practice". That is why Leinders was not at the TdF then?

Better do some reading up on Sky, Wiggins and Froome. The Clinic has it all. You will have to wade through a lot to get to the bones, but it is all there to paint a picture that Sky is not what it says.

Ps Dont miss the bit about Dr Bartalucci.

 

[OldManThyme]

That seems the wrong analogy for your argument. You are saying Madoff would not commit a crime because his company would have too much to lose.

I don't think there is doping in a team sense.

That's a laugh! 1 + 1 = 49?
I have no agenda or "one" argument. I'm defending logical reasoning. You said:
"Why would they be any different to doping that has gone on in, say, US cycling?Look at US Postal using federal money to fund their doping? If you believe Astana have a doping culture that that is funded by the state. The list goes on... Why thing GB cycling would be any different?"

To which i am simply pointing out that if two apples are indeed apples, why are both assumed to be pippins when only one is shown to be. This thread is lacking rigour. And am asking questions to see if you respond appropriately to give food for thought. It doesn't make me a sky fan. So don't let your hackles rise....

(in answer to Big Ring too)

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Don't suppose you're from the good ol' UK perchance? Tootle pip and all that eh what?

Do you mean toodle pip?

 

[OldManThyme]

To use the death of someone to justify hiring a doping Doctor like Leinders is disgusting. I have said it before and i again i still think it is disgusting.

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

again here



Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...s-role-with-Sky-Procycling.aspx#ixzz24aMCGYUq

"it’s about genuine medical practice". That is why Leinders was not at the TdF then?

Better do some reading up on Sky, Wiggins and Froome. The Clinic has it all. You will have to wade through a lot to get to the bones, but it is all there to paint a picture that Sky is not what it says.

Ps Dont miss the bit about Dr Bartalucci.

Now that's a proper answer!
Thank you!

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

That's a laugh! 1 + 1 = 49?
I have no agenda or "one" argument. I'm defending logical reasoning. You said:
"Why would they be any different to doping that has gone on in, say, US cycling?Look at US Postal using federal money to fund their doping? If you believe Astana have a doping culture that that is funded by the state. The list goes on... Why thing GB cycling would be any different?"

To which i am simply pointing out that if two apples are indeed apples, why are both assumed to be pippins when only one is shown to be. This thread is lacking rigour. And am asking questions to see if you respond appropriately to give food for thought. It doesn't make me a sky fan. So don't let your hackles rise....

(in answer to Big Ring too)

Defending logical reasoning? i don't even think you are reading your own posts.

 

[the big ring]

This thread is lacking rigour. And am asking questions to see if you respond appropriately to give food for thought. It doesn't make me a sky fan. )

We've heard this same argument before, countless times. LA fanbois can show you how it's done properly - check Quick Stepper posts for an example.

This thread is 5060 posts long. I highly doubt you have rigorously read them all.

 

[OldManThyme]

That seems the wrong analogy for your argument. You are saying Madoff would not commit a crime because his company would have too much to lose.

I don't think there is doping in a team sense.

And you're reading yours?

 

[OldManThyme]

We've heard this same argument before, countless times. LA fanbois can show you how it's done properly - check Quick Stepper posts for an example.

This thread is 5060 posts long. I highly doubt you have rigorously read them all.

indeed i've noticed some lecturers with no substance

 

[Benotti69]

anyone see this

French attorney Thibault de Montbrial, who defended the paper in a suit filed by Armstrong against LA Confidential authors David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, thinks the cumulative pressure of authors such as these and the SCA Promotions lawsuit that followed contributed to the downfall of Armstrong.

He also believes riders are still showing suspicious signs.

"Work together with Antoine Vayer [LeMond columnist], the performance specialist, helped show the implausibility of the power generated in watts on the climbs. Moreover, it is interesting to note that the UCI has banned the publication of such real-time statistics in 2012. And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-armstrong-warned-before-all-doping-controls

 

[Tyre Byter]

Just beat me to it!

 

[bobbins]

I want to believe in Sky but have to start thinking that it is looking, sounding and walking too much like a duck this year. They have the backup to coverup and have kept on the right side of McQuaid since day one.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Vayer is such a hack.

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/225697706218246144

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discussion.html

 

[Franklin]

My use of the term "management" is upper managment. Brailsford is the manger. A team doc is just a doctor employed to do a job set by the manger.

Funny guy, seems you have trouble grasping the term "management team".

You are a bit slow on the uptake it seems: There was no higher management than those three. That was the upper management team. Only after the Rasmussen disaster did the sponsor step in and appoint their own manager

Slam dunk on your posturing eh? What handwaving can you produce now?

You know, instead of asking for us to produce these facts you could also just read up about this stuff. I certainly advise you to research someone before you express your faith. Saves embarrassments like these.

 

[Franklin]

Vayer is such a hack.

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/225697706218246144

That graph is moronic. Are they going to tell me that Brad Wiggins ended a minute down on AC on Verbier with a Vam below that of Indurain 1995?

No Schlecks, no Nibali, it's just AC who had a huge VAM that day, everyone else was normal

 

[jilbiker]

I want to believe in Sky but have to start thinking that it is looking, sounding and walking too much like a duck this year. They have the backup to coverup and have kept on the right side of McQuaid since day one.

I think they have something new and very undetectable (at least for now). I suspect a DNA/Clone/StemCell modification of your body system. If you are testing for blood/Unrine/Drugs how will you catch anything?? In short we are dealing with Androids.....Is it a loser for everyone? No, actually its easier to beat unless they have also modified the brains department.