Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

[Red Rick]

I think most people have recognize and respect Quintana's tremendous ability. That doesn't automatically have to mean they'll be fans. I think people want to see him more agressive, and in that sense the Vuelta last year was a very positive sign. I also think the Giro of 2014 and the Tour of 2015 rubbed people the wrong way. I know that it did for me.

 

[gospina]

Re:

I think most people have recognize and respect Quintana's tremendous ability. That doesn't automatically have to mean they'll be fans. I think people want to see him more agressive, and in that sense the Vuelta last year was a very positive sign. I also think the Giro of 2014 and the Tour of 2015 rubbed people the wrong way. I know that it did for me.

I can see how certain performances or events may shape your opinion (Like Nibali's car tug did for me).
I also don't expect everyone to be fans, heck, I expect some people will hate him because they are fans of others, like what happens with Froomie right now. I just don't understand how even fans of him expect more. He can retire today and still be considered one of the best of this era IMO.

 

[Netserk]

The reason I'm not a fan of Froome is not that he is bad, nor that he doesn't race efficiently (to give an example). I think that is true for the large majority of his non-fans. So perhaps the reason many want more from Quintana has nothing to do with his level nor how efficiently he races. If that is the case, arguments about how good he is and how much sense his riding style makes doesn't matter. At least not if the point of the argument is to convince others.

One of the great appeals of Boonen, Contador and Nibali for me is that when they are on, they take matters in their own hands, they make the race, even dictates it. Their presence is not just noted on the result sheet, it forms the whole race.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

The reason I'm not a fan of Froome is not that he is bad, nor that he doesn't race efficiently (to give an example). I think that is true for the large majority of his non-fans. So perhaps the reason many want more from Quintana has nothing to do with his level nor how efficiently he races. If that is the case, arguments about how good he is and how much sense his riding style makes doesn't matter. At least not if the point of the argument is to convince others.

One of the great appeals of Boonen, Contador and Nibali for me is that when they are on, they take matters in their own hands, they make the race, even dictates it. Their presence is not just noted on the result sheet, it forms the whole race.

Yes exactly ...they make their presence felt

Not so Quintana for me...He is very good no doubt but I cannot rely on him to bring anything like passion to my viewing. Even in the Vuelta 2016 where he won my eyes were only on Contador ....with Froome & Chaves also part of my conscience viewing

But hey his fans will accuse me of hating etc because I saw what alot think
There is no point in being good if you do not bring out the best in the fans

What is that line from the film Gladiator...I was the best not because I won but becasue the crowd loved me ....or some such

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

The reason I'm not a fan of Froome is not that he is bad, nor that he doesn't race efficiently (to give an example). I think that is true for the large majority of his non-fans. So perhaps the reason many want more from Quintana has nothing to do with his level nor how efficiently he races. If that is the case, arguments about how good he is and how much sense his riding style makes doesn't matter. At least not if the point of the argument is to convince others.

One of the great appeals of Boonen, Contador and Nibali for me is that when they are on, they take matters in their own hands, they make the race, even dictates it. Their presence is not just noted on the result sheet, it forms the whole race.

I'm not sure how much more froome could do to take matters into his own hands or dictate a race. in fact that's what most of his detractors dislike the most. he seizes control of the race and that lessens / ends their hopefuls chances which ruins it (especially the Tour) for them.
honestly if one of your favorites mentioned above could ride like either CF or NQ today (not several years ago) would your view of them change?

 

[Netserk]

Froome's team dictates the race. Not so much Froome, certainly not near as much as the three mentioned.

I don't really see yo-yoing as forming a race. Attacking at the bottom of Madeleine in the middle of the stage last year in the Dauphiné was.

 

[Moviestar]

The team presentation is currently live ...and yet again Betancur is absent

 

[Guybrush]

Re: Re:

The reason I'm not a fan of Froome is not that he is bad, nor that he doesn't race efficiently (to give an example). I think that is true for the large majority of his non-fans. So perhaps the reason many want more from Quintana has nothing to do with his level nor how efficiently he races. If that is the case, arguments about how good he is and how much sense his riding style makes doesn't matter. At least not if the point of the argument is to convince others.

One of the great appeals of Boonen, Contador and Nibali for me is that when they are on, they take matters in their own hands, they make the race, even dictates it. Their presence is not just noted on the result sheet, it forms the whole race.

Yes exactly ...they make their presence felt

Not so Quintana for me...He is very good no doubt but I cannot rely on him to bring anything like passion to my viewing. Even in the Vuelta 2016 where he won my eyes were only on Contador ....with Froome & Chaves also part of my conscience viewing

But hey his fans will accuse me of hating etc because I saw what alot think
There is no point in being good if you do not bring out the best in the fans

What is that line from the film Gladiator...I was the best not because I won but becasue the crowd loved me ....or some such

dislike is absolutely acceptable, but you said "one of the most boring riders in the peloton". i'm sorry, no disrespect intended, but that was a stupid and make no sense.

 

[portugal11]

Will valverde race ruta del sol?

 

[GambadiLegno]

It's planned Ruta del Sol in Valverde's calendar, yes.

 

[Moviestar]

Sad story about ex-rider Jose Ivan Gutierrez who got deeply depressed after his retirement. He would lie whole days just in his bed and he has tried to commit suicide 11(!) times.

http://www.abc.es/deportes/ciclismo/abci-ivan-gutierrez-movistar-suicidio-201701250943_noticia.html

 

[Escarabajo]

Wasn't he the one they called the Bufalo?
Never mind. Wrong name.

Sad news anyway!

 

[zoolander]

Re:

Wasn't he the one they called the Bufalo?

If it is him that was Santiago Botero's old friend.

No, that's Enrique Gutierrez, ex rider from Phonak among others. This is Iván Gutierrez, former rider of Once, Illes Balears, Caisse Depargne....

 

[portugal11]

Re:

It's planned Ruta del Sol in Valverde's calendar, yes.

Good, i'm excited to see contador against valverde

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Sad story about ex-rider Jose Ivan Gutierrez who got deeply depressed after this retirement. He would lie whole days just in his bed and he has tried to commit suicide 11(!) times.

http://www.abc.es/deportes/ciclismo/abci-ivan-gutierrez-movistar-suicidio-201701250943_noticia.html

 

[Valv.Piti]

Also, for those interested, you can watch the whole team presentation on Movistar's facebook-page.

 

[mariposa]

Re:

Sad story about ex-rider Jose Ivan Gutierrez who got deeply depressed after his retirement. He would lie whole days just in his bed and he has tried to commit suicide 11(!) times.

http://www.abc.es/deportes/ciclismo/abci-ivan-gutierrez-movistar-suicidio-201701250943_noticia.html

Cycling news has a report in English on this as well now.

He was a very good rider and I am sad to hear about his struggles. Very brave of him to come out and admit this, hopefully that will help his recovery process. One of those taboos not speaking about mental health issues. It must be tremendously hard for riders coming to the end of their careers to move on without problems. Really good of Racing Santander to help him out. I hope that the future is good for him.

 

[Mr.White]

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

Yes, they have been pretty bad. But they have also given a lot of their younger guys the chance in these races.

Anyways, does anybody know if the likes of Carretero, Arcas, Bico and Pedrero has potential to anything more than decent domestiques at best? I honestly don't really know anything about them. Sütterlin, Carapaz and Soler seems a bit more promising.

 

[Moviestar]

Re:

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

For most riders the first races of the season to get the legs rolling. Valverde is always good in Mallorca, cause he doesn't need much races to be in form due to his high basic level.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

For most riders the first races of the season to get the legs rolling. Valverde is always good in Mallorca, cause he doesn't need much races to be in form due to his high basic level.

I am aware that these are the first races, but they were also first races for Lotto, yet they had crushed them. If Valverde had one decent helper in 3rd race, no way Wellens would escape like he did

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

For most riders the first races of the season to get the legs rolling. Valverde is always good in Mallorca, cause he doesn't need much races to be in form due to his high basic level.

Or to put it simple, Valverde is always good in Mallorca because he is good in every race he enters, from start to end of the season.

 

[Moviestar]

Re: Re:

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

For most riders the first races of the season to get the legs rolling. Valverde is always good in Mallorca, cause he doesn't need much races to be in form due to his high basic level.

I am aware that these are the first races, but they were also first races for Lotto, yet they had crushed them. If Valverde had one decent helper in 3rd race, no way Wellens would escape like he did

This is certainly spot on. In the final parts of races Valverde usually lacks helpers and with the departure of Visconti and Ion Izagirre it won't become much easier.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Movistar not so good in Mallorca races, except Valverde. I guess Unzue will have a word with them...

Yes, they have been pretty bad. But they have also given a lot of their younger guys the chance in these races.

Anyways, does anybody know if the likes of Carretero, Arcas, Bico and Pedrero has potential to anything more than decent domestiques at best? I honestly don't really know anything about them. Sütterlin, Carapaz and Soler seems a bit more promising.

Arcas and Pedrero are domestiques. They'll be the kind of helpers Unzué likes to have, but they were 23 and 24 before turning pro and weren't super spectacular espoirs. They could well become part of the fabric of the team if they do well in their roles, but they're being brought in as part of the team's tradition of people like Lastras, Txente García and Erviti than as future stars.

Héctor Carretero is turning pro at 21 and is I think more ready than they were last year. He's a very good rider, more of an all-rounder than the likes of Soler, he won the Vuelta a Palencia finish at the Santuário del Brezo and the Clásica de Torredonjimeno which includes a bunch of the climbs around the Sierra de la Pandera (Puerto del Castillo, Puerto Viejo, Puerto de Locubín, Alto de los Frailes), so he's solid for punchy and medium-mountain terrain. The fact that they've turned him pro ahead of Sergio Samitier and been willing to let Óscar Rodríguez walk to Euskadi-Murias tells you they have pretty solid hopes for him.

Bico is coming in from outside the feeders (Carapaz, Soler, Carretero, Arcas and Pedrero all came from the team's main feeder, Lizarte) so while he's a promising rider that those of us following the Portuguese péloton have had hopes for as one of those young talents who might be able to escape the insular, troubled scene, a lot will depend on how well he is able to adapt to Movistar. He may well be sacrificed to doing a lot of the northern Classics, as seems to be something of a rite of passage for young Abarcá riders, but we should judge based on where he is in a couple of years' time. Same for Carretero really; Unzué likes to bring people into the fold early then slowly develop them, Soler was quiet in his first year save for Avenir and a couple of breakaways in the Volta a Catalunya too, but is looking more and more promising as time goes by and he develops more.

 

[Tonton]

Wow! Libertine Seguros strikes again! Excellent analysis, as always. I like the way Movistar goes about building a team. Different sport, different times, that's how Jacquet built the French team for the '98 World Cup. Not by lining up the mega stars, but by defining roles, matching players to fit his vision, and developing them.

It's the Bellichick approach too, except that in American Football, there's only one goal: winning the Superbowl. Unzué is great at what he does, I understand not wanting to put all the eggs in one basket, but I think that Giro-Tour for Quintana may result in under-prepared-loss and too-tired-loss. We shall see...

Sorry to hear about Ivan Guttierez' passing .

EDIT: the point I'm trying to make is that one strong Movistar team for a GT is much better than two diluted teams for two GTs. Quintana can beat Froome. If he's 100%, with the best Movistar team, if he believes in his chances. Does he?