Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

[Koronin]

I'm not entirely sure Landa will particularly care. Quintana won't be happy with the role either of us give him for most races.
However, I'd have let Valverde do the Giro/Vuelta double he would have preferred this year. Plus that would have been more sense with this year's World's course as well. Of course he'd be race leader for both races. Truthfully I'd go ahead and send Landa and Quintana to the Tour and let them have their war. Soler can go with Valverde to both the GIro and Vuelta.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

I'm not entirely sure Landa will particularly care. Quintana won't be happy with the role either of us give him for most races.
However, I'd have let Valverde do the Giro/Vuelta double he would have preferred this year. Plus that would have been more sense with this year's World's course as well. Of course he'd be race leader for both races. Truthfully I'd go ahead and send Landa and Quintana to the Tour and let them have their war. Soler can go with Valverde to both the GIro and Vuelta.

I'm not at all convinced that Valverde can't win the Tour even though everybody says he can't because they don't think his Grand Tour endurance is what it used to be.

But he hasn't ridden more than 6 GT kilometres in a year and a half, and in that time he has probably been the strongest he has ever been. Why that shouldn't translate into an improved capability in GTs, I cannot give a good reason for.

And with Froome and Dumoulin tiring themselves in the Giro, the Tour is more open than usually, and Valverde should have a good chance. Which he also had last year.

And I don't care that much for the Vuelta to be honest. He shouldn't tire himself too much in that race. The Worlds are much more important.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm not entirely sure Landa will particularly care. Quintana won't be happy with the role either of us give him for most races.
However, I'd have let Valverde do the Giro/Vuelta double he would have preferred this year. Plus that would have been more sense with this year's World's course as well. Of course he'd be race leader for both races. Truthfully I'd go ahead and send Landa and Quintana to the Tour and let them have their war. Soler can go with Valverde to both the GIro and Vuelta.

I'm not at all convinced that Valverde can't win the Tour even though everybody says he can't because they don't think his Grand Tour endurance is what it used to be.

But he hasn't ridden more than 6 GT kilometres in a year and a half, and in that time he has probably been the strongest he has ever been. Why that shouldn't translate into an improved capability in GTs, I cannot give a good reason for.

And with Froome and Dumoulin tiring themselves in the Giro, the Tour is more open than usually, and Valverde should have a good chance. Which he also had last year.

And I don't care that much for the Vuelta to be honest. He shouldn't tire himself too much in that race. The Worlds are much more important.

I think he can win another GT and possibly the Tour, although it seems he would prefer another Vuelta (and he really wants that podium record at the Vuelta). Also remember he's said many times la Vuelta is his favorite race of the season. At this point in his career I think he's earned the right to pick which races he goes to and esp which Grand Tours he goes to. To me the Worlds after the Ardennes should be his main focus and he's going to after the Vuelta just because it's his home grand tour and his favorite race.
You are right that the Tour is going to be open this year and he and Nibali have the best ability to get through the cobbled stage in the best shape.

 

[staubsauger]

Valverde has won one gt in his career. Mainly because his key opponent got tricked by the neutral service car and his other challenger crashed quite harsh. He still nearly lost it to Robert Gesink... He should be happy he's managed to win one Vuelta. Just like Cunego with his Giro victory.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Valverde has won one gt in his career. Mainly because his key opponent got tricked by the neutral service car and his other challenger crashed quite harsh. He still nearly lost it to Robert Gesink... He should be happy he's managed to win one Vuelta. Just like Cunego with his Giro victory.

Cunego has five top 10s in GTs and has never been close to a victory since his Giro win. Valverde has 16 and a 12th and a 20th place in 18 finishes. In 2016 he might have won the Giro if it weren't for motos pacing the Nibali group on the stage to Risoul.

He didn't win one WT stage race between 2010 and 2017. During the last 13 months he has won four.

Why is it so unlikely that the step up he might or might not have taken in 2017 shouldn't elevate him that tiny bit he has been missing in GTs as well?

 

[Koronin]

And don't forget that 12th place finish at la Vuelta was the 3rd Grand Tour he'd raced in one year.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

And don't forget that 12th place finish at la Vuelta was the 3rd Grand Tour he'd raced in one year.

Well, a 12th place is hardly anything to brag about, though. Especially not in the Vuelta where the field is rarely very deep. The fact that he was at the podium after two weeks was mind-boggling, though.

And yes, yes, I know that it was his fith GT in a row, but still.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

And don't forget that 12th place finish at la Vuelta was the 3rd Grand Tour he'd raced in one year.

Well, a 12th place is hardly anything to brag about, though. Especially not in the Vuelta where the field is rarely very deep. The fact that he was at the podium after two weeks was mind-boggling, though.

And yes, yes, I know that it was his fith GT in a row, but still.

True, but context for both of the non top 10 finishes are important. The 20th at the Tour was 2012 and his first GT after his ban. The 12th at la Vuelta was his 3rd GT in one year (something only a few domestiques even attempt) and his 5th in a row. He's even admitted that was a bit too much even for him, but was glad he tried. He's said he doesn't intend on ever doing it again.
I agree the fact he was in podium spot after 2 weeks in his 3rd GT in one year and 5th in a row was absolutely crazy.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I always believed it would be close to impossible for Valverde to win the Tour, at least after his first 'real' Tour in 2007. Well, I still kinda believed he could do well in 2008 considering the rivals and all, but yeah.

Fast forward to 2017 and I thought he was the favourite going in to the race due to the shitty course and his absolutely amazing shape. Add to that the very suspect crop of favourites which indeed got confirmed during the race - it was a pretty low level. He could walk on water that year, he was to me what Messias is to the Jews. Afterwards, I thought it was THE chance and he never would be able to win or maybe contend again. Once again though, things changed and he looks amazing once again while the two favourites for the Tour both are doing the Giro and we don't even know if Froome is allowed to race.

All I can say is I look forward to the Tour. I don't think he need as much luck to win (or come close) as we initially thought. I don't think the cobbles are a disadvantage for him either..

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Valverde has won one gt in his career. Mainly because his key opponent got tricked by the neutral service car and his other challenger crashed quite harsh. He still nearly lost it to Robert Gesink... He should be happy he's managed to win one Vuelta. Just like Cunego with his Giro victory.

Are you sure you watched that race?

 

[Bardamu]

Landa confirmed for Amstel. You guys think he'll be of any use in the final?

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Landa confirmed for Amstel. You guys think he'll be of any use in the final?

No. But he could be of great use in Liege and Fleche, particularly Liege.

Really strong team though, Bala, Landa, Amador, Betancur, Erviti, Rojas and Anacona. I think it's a team for two other races also, maybe only with minor changes.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Landa confirmed for Amstel. You guys think he'll be of any use in the final?

No. But he could be of great use in Liege and Fleche, particularly Liege.

Really strong team though, Bala, Landa, Amador, Betancur, Erviti, Rojas and Anacona. I think it's a team for two other races also, maybe only with minor changes.

I don't know if Anacona and Betancur get over RaF if there's aggression there. I imagine Landa will follow the moves that happen there and then sit on the wheel or something like that.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Valverde has won one gt in his career. Mainly because his key opponent got tricked by the neutral service car and his other challenger crashed quite harsh. He still nearly lost it to Robert Gesink... He should be happy he's managed to win one Vuelta. Just like Cunego with his Giro victory.

To be fair, Cunego hasn't smelled a grand tour podium since arguably 2007 while Valverde has about 8 grand tour podium placements in his career. To mention them in the same conversation in terms of competing in grand tours is a bit of a slap in the face to Valverde.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Looks like Soler only will ride Liege and then go to Romandie. That should be fine since thats the race that by far suits him the best - hoping he won't be too gassed afterwards as he will be the leader in Romandie.

Lets see how good Betancur is going. I bet pretty good already.

 

[Koronin]

Amstel is a harder one for them to put a really solid team around Valverde than Fleche Wallone and LBL are. This team looks solid enough. If any of them are there in the end for Alejandro Rojas is the most likely to be of any use to him. Hopefully Landa can be of use to him in the other two, just not sure this one is very good for him to be of any real help.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re:

Amstel is a harder one for them to put a really solid team around Valverde than Fleche Wallone and LBL are. This team looks solid enough. If any of them are there in the end for Alejandro Rojas is the most likely to be of any use to him. Hopefully Landa can be of use to him in the other two, just not sure this one is very good for him to be of any real help.

Rojas 'in the end'? The same Rojas, well known from his palmares in Vuelta'2017?

 

[tobydawq]

He was 5th last year.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re:

He was 5th last year.

And 3rd from (the second) 4-men-group?

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

He was 5th last year.

And 3rd from (the second) 4-men-group?

I honestly don't get the point. Doesn't a top ten prove that he might be useful at the business end of the race? It wasn't like he was dropped down into the following group from a hot air balloon with two kilometres to go. He rode a good race to get there but wasn't strong enough to sprint which he isn't as good at anymore than earlier in his career.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

He was 5th last year.

And 3rd from (the second) 4-men-group?

I honestly don't get the point. Doesn't a top ten prove that he might be useful at the business end of the race? It wasn't like he was dropped down into the following group from a hot air balloon with two kilometres to go. He rode a good race to get there but wasn't strong enough to sprint which he isn't as good at anymore than earlier in his career.

What is the point? Koronin wrote that Rojas may be helpful 'in the end'. If that's the same Rojas as in Vuelta'17 and AGR'17- he is quite poor ' in the end'.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He was 5th last year.

And 3rd from (the second) 4-men-group?

I honestly don't get the point. Doesn't a top ten prove that he might be useful at the business end of the race? It wasn't like he was dropped down into the following group from a hot air balloon with two kilometres to go. He rode a good race to get there but wasn't strong enough to sprint which he isn't as good at anymore than earlier in his career.

What is the point? Koronin wrote that Rojas may be helpful 'in the end'. If that's the same Rojas as in Vuelta'17 and AGR'17- he is quite poor ' in the end'.

You do know what the word "may" means right? Yes it is possible that this particular one he MAY be helpful.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Ok, I have a kind of bet for you.
If Rojas is in top-20 of AGR I will immediately quit this forum, if not.. you will do it.

 

[tobydawq]

Right because a rider who helps his captain in the end always ends up in the top 20. Like Kwiat in the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If you are ending 5th, you definitely aren't able to help your captain in that race. You should at least win to be able to say that, at the bare minimum!

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