Team Sky and BC Books.

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

If it wasn't for advertising pro road cycling wouldn't exist, no sponsors no money in it

But the sport existed prior to Sky without advertising that was devising, misleading, and alienating (for the most part, a media machine has come can gone, but not to the scale of Sky/BC). As many keep saying, it isn't the fact that there is a message being sent, it is the content of the message that is causing problems.

An extension of your comment is to question how it will exist when those sponsorship are earned through misleading or hostile advertising, as the Sky model has shown to be so successful.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

Strides, we are just going to have to accept that we are coming at this from different angles.

I think its marketing to sell stuff. You think it is PR to counteract doping accusations. (despite the marginal gains pr and all the other crap pre-dating any actual success, and pre-dating any accusations).

You are viewing everything through the distorting lens of doping. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a business woman, and to me it makes total sense from a marketing point of view. It is all about marketing, making money. It is professional sport not amateur. And Sky are very, very good at it. So they should be too. They have the expertise of a multi-billion dollar media empire behind them.

On purpose, I only brought up doping as the last sentence in my posts. The "cover up" angle you think I am most concerned about is only an afterthought right now. Please, respond to just this part of my post, just the integrity of the advertising, just the content of the marketing:

Let's go back to the first question in the previous post. (I'm not making a comparison to Sky, yet.) Are we allowed to be upset at a cigarette company advertising to children? Are we allowed to be upset at pop-up ads that prevent us from viewing content? Are we allowed to be upset at the density of commercials on TV or radio? Are we Allowed to be upset at the aesthetics of those commercials, like those ones that shout or feature inappropriate (in someone's mind) images?

Yes.

A little closer to Sky now. Are we allowed to be upset at companies that tell their side of the story and not the other? Are we allowed to be upset at companies that imply their way of doing things is the only way? Are we allowed to be upset at a company that disparages their competition?

Yes. Because those messages sway their audience into believing things that aren't 100% true. And those misconceptions then affect the state of that market. Look at how many things have to label themselves Gluten-Free. Have you seen fruit labeled gluten-free? That wasn't an idea out of the blue, that was a reaction to the public frenzy over gluten, caused by advertising interested in demonizing gluten as part out their marketing campaign. That fruit company, drink company, or whatever company that common sense knows cannot have gluten shouldn't have to say so, but were forced into a corner by underhanded advertising and marketing. Any example of advertising a diet at the expense of other legitimate foods or practices is equally dangerous to the image of health and wellness.

As fans, we are seeing the rest of the fan base being manipulated in the same way. It's equally dangerous to the image of the sport. That instead of focusing on actual gains, fitness magazines are now writing about marginal gains, because the market thinks that that is what is more important. It's less about the attention to the team (which would be more acceptable), and about the fans'/sports attention to what Sky's smoke and mirrors of what they say is important.

Just because they are good at it does not excuse them from being honest.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

If it wasn't for advertising pro road cycling wouldn't exist, no sponsors no money in it

But the sport existed prior to Sky without advertising that was devising, misleading, and alienating (for the most part, a media machine has come can gone, but not to the scale of Sky/BC). As many keep saying, it isn't the fact that there is a message being sent, it is the content of the message that is causing problems.

An extension of your comment is to question how it will exist when those sponsorship are earned through misleading or hostile advertising, as the Sky model has shown to be so successful.

Remember F1 before Bernie Ecclestone saved it? Remember cycling in the 1980's? Remember Rugby before it turned professional?

Remember life before internet social media (advertising)?

Things change. It's called progress, like it or not, and it has nothing to do with drug-taking cyclists.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

marginal gains are absolutely about counteracting accusations of doping.

Cycling has long been associated with doping in England. For the success to be truly profitable, sky felt they needed to reassure everyone that they are doing it clean. exactly like their hero Lance did 10 years ago when he was trying to sell his own brand and made sure to include all those marginal gains in his books and documentaries.

The idea of marginal gains pre-dates Team Sky. It goes back to before the 2008 Olympics. Accusations of doping were not really an issue for Team GB track team. There was no credibility gap.

If a team is doping then the reason for their success is doping.

So when the media asks - what is the reason for your incredible success. They can't say doping.

So they have to say something else. Usually "we train harder". Marginal gains is just an extention of that. Likely a way for Brailsford to take credit. Actually pretty much the exact same excuses Brunyeel made up in his book when he wanted to take credit.

 

[wendybnt]

@ Strides.In response to your long post, I will say this. Since when has advertising been honest? It is about creating dreams and illusions.

Yes, you are going to say clean Sky riders are an illusion, and I would agree with you. But it is beside the point.

Ok, Enough from me, today. I must get some work done. I've been procrastinating all day Maybe catch up with you in the week. Good chatting and exchange of ideas with you and Hitch. Thanks. x

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

If it wasn't for advertising pro road cycling wouldn't exist, no sponsors no money in it

But the sport existed prior to Sky without advertising that was devising, misleading, and alienating (for the most part, a media machine has come can gone, but not to the scale of Sky/BC). As many keep saying, it isn't the fact that there is a message being sent, it is the content of the message that is causing problems.

An extension of your comment is to question how it will exist when those sponsorship are earned through misleading or hostile advertising, as the Sky model has shown to be so successful.

Haven't a clue what you are trying to say here.

In the 1990's advertisers like Festina etc benefited from cycle teams misleading the general public.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

But the sport existed prior to Sky without advertising that was devising, misleading, and alienating (for the most part, a media machine has come can gone, but not to the scale of Sky/BC). As many keep saying, it isn't the fact that there is a message being sent, it is the content of the message that is causing problems.

I am not alienated AT ALL by any Sky advertising
not a problem for me

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Benotti.You haven't understood a single thing I've said have you. It isn't about whether Sky dope or don't dope, its about what the purpose of the publicity is.

Here is an amazon link to a whole bunch of books about Lewis Hamilton

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=lewis+hamilton

Are we agreed that he probably doesn't dope? So in the absence of dope, what do you think those books are all about, and why do you think Hamilton's team and sponsors would be pretty pleased about it?

If you still don't get it, please don't bother replying.

Of course Hamilton dopes.

F1 is a borefest. But i bet they all dope, not to the same degree but their fitness coaches in Monaco probably have them doing little bits of HGH, steroids etc

Not sure too many in F1 think Ecclestone saved it.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

el oh el at that Milking It novel. Is it on Amazon yet?

Another Hog special

I really need to waste an hour or so and do a "tailwind" version

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Many of us think the reason for the narrative and half truths is to hide doping. But if it isn't, then what is the purpose of the myths, contradictions, and arrogance?

We aren't talking about myths, half-truths and contradictions. We are talking about the enormous output of media from the Team Sky bandwagon. Sure, there are some contradictions and some of it is probably a cover for things that can only be explained by doping. But not all of it is. Most of it is just the same as any other hype from any other organisation that wants to present itself as better than the rest.

For example, I don't see the marginal gains thing as a cover for doping, I see it as saying " We pay attention to the tiny details that others don't". Its advertising. To understand that, put yourself in the shoes of a member of the likely target audience...a potential subscriber to Sky TV. That potential customer won't think "oh, its ok, I will subscribe to Sky tv now that I know that Team Sky are winning through marginal gains and not dope", that isn't the point of the message. The point of the message is to drip feed into the notion that Team Sky are more professional and capable, and by association so are Sky Digital.

Its advertising. PR. Call it want you want, but it isn't about counteracting accusations of doping.

Why be surprised and upset that a media organisation pumps out advertising? I'm baffled.

It is exactly about counteracting the doping and at the same time milking it for all it is worth while it lasts, because they all saw the 'reasoned decision'.......

Why sign Walsh up as he is not PR or advertising? He is the anti-doping guru, according to Hollywood

Media organistation signs up biggest known anti-doping journalist to give team clean bill of health. Hmmm and it is called advertising or PR? nope. It is a smoke screen.

 

[oldcrank]

Re:

If it wasn't for advertising pro road cycling wouldn't exist, no sponsors no money in it

Yes, of course you are 100% correct, my friend,
and I'm glad SKY has been sponsoring cycling
going back to at least 1995 and the SKY TV
Grand Prix (city centre) series...way back
when Shane and Rod and Rob were all
still racing for their dinners.

 

[Ramon Koran]

The problem with this thread is everyone is assuming that sky are lying, they are taking drugs and marginal gains are just a con. But let's face it there is no proof to suggest sky are doping they are just suspicious. Maybe they really have revolutionized the sport and the books are merely the truth. I'm not saying sky are definitely clean I just think that it is wrong to assume that all the books are speaking lies and brainwashing the general population.

 

[blackcat]

#NOTNORMAL new #NORMAL.

very, very very good hoggie

 

[biker jk]

Re:

Relax Jimmy, its all about literacy rates, that's why LRP hasn't released a book, so few of his countrymen can read

Au contraire. Australia ranks far above the UK on literacy. Perhaps that's why all those Sky books have so many pictures.

Australia outperforms both US and UK in basic skills survey of 24 countries in which Japan and Finland do best.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...th-in-literacy-and-13th-in-numeracy-says-oecd

According to figures, England is ranked 22nd out of 24 western countries in terms of literacy and 21st for numeracy – being outperformed by nations such as Estonia, Poland and Slovakia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...rate-and-numerate-in-the-developed-world.html

 

[Savant12]

Re: Re:

Relax Jimmy, its all about literacy rates, that's why LRP hasn't released a book, so few of his countrymen can read

Au contraire. Australia ranks far above the UK on literacy. Perhaps that's why all those Sky books have so many pictures.

Pictures are easier to sell to a gullible British public who only "support" cycling every Tour de France or Tour of Britain or London Olympics. Just look at Murdoch's evil tabloid journalism which is swallowed up by the public only to condemn it later when certain facts come out.

 

[thehog]

As a big Team Sky fan can I get some reading recommendations ITT?

This one looks good. Has a quote from David Millar on the front cover so you know it must be awesome

"A poignant voyage, an instant classic"!

Awesome!

 

[Ramon Koran]

As a big Team Sky fan can I get some reading recommendations ITT?

This one looks good. Has a quote from David Millar on the front cover so you know it must be awesome

"A poignant voyage, an instant classic"!

Awesome!

Where does it say an "instant classic"? Or did you just male that up?

 

[thehog]

As a big Team Sky fan can I get some reading recommendations ITT?

This one looks good. Has a quote from David Millar on the front cover so you know it must be awesome

"A poignant voyage, an instant classic"!

Awesome!

Where does it say an "instant classic"? Or did you just male that up?

As stated in the David Millar quote on the front cover.

Or did you not bother to read that?

C'Mon! You can be a better bot than this attempt!

 

[The Carrot]

As a big Team Sky fan can I get some reading recommendations ITT?

This one looks good. Has a quote from David Millar on the front cover so you know it must be awesome

"A poignant voyage, an instant classic"!

Awesome!

'Life at the heart of the peloton, from US Postal to Team Sky'

Not changed much between those 2 reference points IMHO.

 

[oldcrank]

For anyone who has read this ground breaking work
and is interested in learning more about Dr. Peters very
successful theories, methods and protocols for people
to get the best out of themselves and coaches to get the
very best out of their athletes, British Cycling is presenting
a series of workshops in Manchester, Newport, Glasgow, Derby
and London. These workshops are open to the public and discounts
are available for British Cycling members and qualified coaches.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/c...this-winter-with-Chimp-Management-workshops-0 Hurry, places are very limited!

 

[The Hitch]

Side note but I remember the 2010 TDF presentation when wiggins was interviewed (as all team leaders were) he gave a shoutout to 2 fellow teammates who would be crucial in his team's quest for the TDF.
1 EBH - the big young talent of the time, fair enough.

But 2 - Michael Barry, an old, past-it career bolttle carrier with 0 wins of note, who's claim to fame was having been friends with lance Armstrong.

Feels really weird now, knowing that wiggins apparently always "hated" Lance, that Wiggins would have been ignorant of Barry's doping and such good friends with such a guy.

 

[oldcrank]

For anyone who has read this ground breaking work
and is interested in learning more about Dr. Peters very
successful theories, methods and protocols for people
to get the best out of themselves and coaches to get the
very best out of their athletes, British Cycling is presenting
a series of workshops in Manchester, Newport, Glasgow, Derby
and London. These workshops are open to the public and discounts
are available for British Cycling members and qualified coaches.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/c...this-winter-with-Chimp-Management-workshops-0 Hurry, places are very limited!

Many, many thanks for letting me know about this. So kind of you.

No worries, mate. Sadly I won't be in the UK for the fourth workshop
at any of the venues. The weather is so much better in Australia
at that time ot year.

 

[bobbins]

Brailsford hates anyone getting too successful. All the team pursuit coaches were moved on, Peters was moved on. He's tried to shaft Sutton a few times but couldn't quite get the better of him. I guess dealing with people like Sutton isn't covered in his MBA!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Brailsford hates anyone getting too successful. All the team pursuit coaches were moved on, Peters was moved on. He's tried to shaft Sutton a few times but couldn't quite get the better of him. I guess dealing with people like Sutton isn't covered in his MBA!

MBA doesn't cover "photo" and "first hand experience" removal. For that you need one of the more intense MI6 courses.

 

[Electress]

For anyone who has read this ground breaking work
and is interested in learning more about Dr. Peters very
successful theories, methods and protocols for people
to get the best out of themselves and coaches to get the
very best out of their athletes, British Cycling is presenting
a series of workshops in Manchester, Newport, Glasgow, Derby
and London. These workshops are open to the public and discounts
are available for British Cycling members and qualified coaches.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/c...this-winter-with-Chimp-Management-workshops-0 Hurry, places are very limited!

"Ground-breaking'? Are you being sarcastic or haven't you read it? I have never read a book which made me as angry as this did.

Another lot of snake oil from the grandmeisters of the control-control-control-uber-alles ethos.