Teams & Riders Team Visma - Lease a Bike

[Bolder]

What other sports allow team names to be carried exclusively by sponsors? This seems insane to me

You would have to be location based to make it work, I think. Cycling and auto racing are the only team sports I can think of in which the teams aren't anchored to a certain place and fan base.

It's a bit of an outlier because most of us are fans of individual riders first, then the teams.

There have been a few attempts, mostly in the US, to build a city-based cycling league with proper team names.

There could be a hybrid model, where you had both sponsors and names, for example Baloise-Trek Lions.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Takes me a while to change, I'm sure I will get at least another year out of Jumbo.

 

[scribers]

Because it is a logistical nightmare and very expensive. The sport has always needed sponsoring for all the equipment, traveling and organisers making the races happen.

Where does the income come from? Tv rights? Ticket prices from the audience that attends the races? Merch?

It is not football or any sport that takes place in an arena. It uses the infrastructure that everyone in the world uses.

I mean most motorsports and so on are carried by sponsors.

A lot of other sports use advertising to finance, tv-rights and contributions from the government or other commitees.

It is all just entertainment.

Yes to at least revenue sharing from race organizers and all of the television rights. Merchandise generated by trade teams. Ticketing is possible at finish lines with repeating circuits. Some spring classics already incorporate this model.

Trade teams are already known geographically, which only enhances the brand possibilities.

Teams could have actual value. I think most people understand the licenses have largely been financial liabilities up until recently.

Sponsors can still have access to eyeballs. They just can't be the name of the teams. It's not sustainable in the long term with the tumult loss of title sponsors creates.

 

[theyoungest]

You would have to be location based to make it work, I think. Cycling and auto racing are the only team sports I can think of in which the teams aren't anchored to a certain place and fan base.

It's a bit of an outlier because most of us are fans of individual riders first, then the teams.

There have been a few attempts, mostly in the US, to build a city-based cycling league with proper team names.

There could be a hybrid model, where you had both sponsors and names, for example Baloise-Trek Lions.

A lot of teams in cycling are in fact linked to a nationality. Which makes sense, national pride may often be quite toxic but it is a good foundation for a sports team. It brings sponsors along, as it did for this team back in 2014 when Belkin screwed them over and some Dutch sponsors and stakeholders decided to save them. If it wasn't felt that this was a quintessentially Dutch team they wouldn't have done so. And this time around it was quite similar, for all of Plugge's ambitions and plans to be this huge international team, it's still the Dutch Pon Holding who stepped up when nobody else would.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

You would have to be location based to make it work, I think. Cycling and auto racing are the only team sports I can think of in which the teams aren't anchored to a certain place and fan base.

It's a bit of an outlier because most of us are fans of individual riders first, then the teams.

There have been a few attempts, mostly in the US, to build a city-based cycling league with proper team names.

There could be a hybrid model, where you had both sponsors and names, for example Baloise-Trek Lions.

And any number of French teams, currently CIC U Nantes Atlantique, Go Sport - Roubaix Lille Métropole and St Michel - Mavic - Auber93

 

[Tim Cahill]

They'll always be Rabobank on here, they can win as many races they want,

Sending Steven Kruijswijk to the Giro as leader for one last turn is the only acceptable choice.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

"Team Visma/Lease a Bike from 1 January" seems a long name. Will they be able to fit it onto their jersey's?

 

[Salvarani]

Yes to at least revenue sharing from race organizers and all of the television rights. Merchandise generated by trade teams. Ticketing is possible at finish lines with repeating circuits. Some spring classics already incorporate this model.

Trade teams are already known geographically, which only enhances the brand possibilities.

Teams could have actual value. I think most people understand the licenses have largely been financial liabilities up until recently.

Sponsors can still have access to eyeballs. They just can't be the name of the teams. It's not sustainable in the long term with the tumult loss of title sponsors creates.

That will never work.

 

[RedheadDane]

"Team Visma/Lease a Bike from 1 January" seems a long name. Will they be able to fit it onto their jersey's?

Nothing compared to the insanity some conti-teams come up with.
And even if we're sticking with the WT; Intermarché - Wanty - Gobert Matériaux was also a bit of a mouthful.

 

[shadowrider]

It remains ridiculous Dutch cyclingfans are extremely supportive of the (ex) Jumboteam or future Visma.... team...... just because one of the sponsors and/or a few staffmembers are or were Dutch. Supporting Vingegaard, Roglic (not anymore in 2024, then he will heavilly be criticized), Kuss, Laporte, even (enemystate) Van Aert (as long as he is mostly performing a a domestique). Instead supporting Dutch riders. They do with rather tepid enthusiasm with Van der poel (wit moderate enthusiasm because the grandson of Poulidor is only partly from Dutch origin and is living in Belgium). The problem is there are too few good (young) Dutch riders. Then it's more easy critisizing foreign riders operating in another team and even more riders performing in a team of their own nationality (f.i. Evenepoel in the real Belgian team of Lefevere).
I'm already looking forward to seeing what happens next season when Roglic is constantly, as in the past, hiding in the wheels.....to jump away afterwards or win the sprint. Especially if he will be beating a member of their own favorite team. That will make us laugh with the comments we will then read.

 

[Wyndbrook]

It remains ridiculous Dutch cyclingfans are extremely supportive of the (ex) Jumboteam or future Visma.... team...... just because one of the sponsors and/or a few staffmembers are or were Dutch. Supporting Vingegaard, Roglic (not anymore in 2024, then he will heavilly be criticized), Kuss, Laporte, even (enemystate) Van Aert (as long as he is mostly performing a a domestique). Instead supporting Dutch riders. They do with rather tepid enthusiasm with Van der poel (wit moderate enthusiasm because the grandson of Poulidor is only partly from Dutch origin and is living in Belgium). The problem is there are too few good (young) Dutch riders. Then it's more easy critisizing foreign riders operating in another team and even more riders performing in a team of their own nationality (f.i. Evenepoel in the real Belgian team of Lefevere).
I'm already looking forward to seeing what happens next season when Roglic is constantly, as in the past, hiding in the wheels.....to jump away afterwards or win the sprint. Especially if he will be beating a member of their own favorite team. That will make us laugh with the comments we will then read.

Top ranked road woman and two more in the top five, the top ranked womens mountain biker, and the currently the top nine ranked women's Crossers.
Suggests the young Dutch boys need to up their game.

 

[janraaskalt]

It remains ridiculous Dutch cyclingfans are extremely supportive of the (ex) Jumboteam or future Visma.... team...... just because one of the sponsors and/or a few staffmembers are or were Dutch.

Why would you support a team or rider from your own country? You might as well support a team or rider because you like their style/personality.

 

[scribers]

Even the riders want to be on teams who are based on their own countries of origins. Proximity, press, sponsorships potential would be much better

 

[RedheadDane]

Even the riders want to be on teams who are based on their own countries of origins. Proximity, press, sponsorships potential would be much better

I could be wrong, but I think most riders want to be on teams that gives them the best chance for success.

 

[proffate]

Why would you support a team or rider from your own country? You might as well support a team or rider because you like their style/personality.

Haven't you noticed that humans like to form tribes?

 

[Netserk]

Coalitions - especially male coalitions - and intergroup rivalries are a cross-culturally universal feature of human societies ranging from hunter-gatherer societies to complex, post-industrial societies. Expressions of coalitionalism include states, politics, war, racism, ethnic and religious conflict, civil war, castes, gang rivalries, male social clubs, competitive team sports, video games, and war re-enactment (Alexander 1987; Keegan 1994; Sidanius and Pratto 2001; Tiger 1969; Tooby and Cosmides 1988; Tooby, Cosmides, and Price 2006).
Our core claim is that theoretical considerations and a growing body of empirical evidence support the view that the human mind was equipped by evolution with a rich, multicomponent coalitional psychology. This psychology consists of a set of species-typical neurocomputational programs designed by natural selection to regulate within-coalition cooperation and between-coalition conflict in what, under ancestral conditions, was a fitness promoting way (Tooby and Cosmides 1988; Kurzban, Tooby, and Cosmides 2001; Price, Cosmides, and Tooby 2002; Tooby, Cosmides, and Price 2006).
[...]
These selection pressures built our coalitional psychology, which expresses itself in war, politics, group psychology, and morality. The evolutionary dynamics of war, coalitional behavior, and moral interactions are worth studying because the past world of conflict and cooperation is reflected in the present architecture of the human mind.

Tooby, John & Cosmides, Leda (2010). Groups in mind : the coalitional roots of war and morality. In Henrik Høgh-Olesen (ed.), Human Morality and Sociality: Evolutionary and Comparative Perspectives. Palgrave-Macmillan. p. 192.

 

[theyoungest]

It remains ridiculous Dutch cyclingfans are extremely supportive of the (ex) Jumboteam or future Visma.... team...... just because one of the sponsors and/or a few staffmembers are or were Dutch. Supporting Vingegaard, Roglic (not anymore in 2024, then he will heavilly be criticized), Kuss, Laporte, even (enemystate) Van Aert (as long as he is mostly performing a a domestique). Instead supporting Dutch riders. They do with rather tepid enthusiasm with Van der poel (wit moderate enthusiasm because the grandson of Poulidor is only partly from Dutch origin and is living in Belgium). The problem is there are too few good (young) Dutch riders. Then it's more easy critisizing foreign riders operating in another team and even more riders performing in a team of their own nationality (f.i. Evenepoel in the real Belgian team of Lefevere).
I'm already looking forward to seeing what happens next season when Roglic is constantly, as in the past, hiding in the wheels.....to jump away afterwards or win the sprint. Especially if he will be beating a member of their own favorite team. That will make us laugh with the comments we will then read.

You should never compare Dutch cycling to Belgian cycling. Dutch people ride bikes to get from A to B. Belgian people ride bikes as a sport. The Netherlands will never have as many good riders as the Belgians do, an Evenepoel would never develop over here because a young talented footballer would never in his life decide on cycling as another career. It just wouldn't cross his mind.

Also, the idea that Dutch people don't fully support Van der Poel because he grew up in Belgium is just absolute horsesh.t. He's by far the most popular rider over here. You really don't know what you're talking about, actually. Your whole view of Dutch people seems to be based on a few posters on Wielerflits.

 

[shadowrider]

Why would you support a team or rider from your own country? You might as well support a team or rider because you like their style/personality.

That's my point.

 

[shadowrider]

You should never compare Dutch cycling to Belgian cycling. Dutch people ride bikes to get from A to B. Belgian people ride bikes as a sport. The Netherlands will never have as many good riders as the Belgians do, an Evenepoel would never develop over here because a young talented footballer would never in his life decide on cycling as another career. It just wouldn't cross his mind.

Also, the idea that Dutch people don't fully support Van der Poel because he grew up in Belgium is just absolute horsesh.t. He's by far the most popular rider over here. You really don't know what you're talking about, actually. Your whole view of Dutch people seems to be based on a few posters on Wielerflits.

A few posters on Wielerflits..... really ? The majority handle hatespeech against non-Dutch riders or riders not belonging to the Jumbo-Visma team (cheered up by the editors with their suggestive articles). That's the reason why I predict that the adoration of Roglic will completely change next season. Especially when Roglic will compete against the ex-Jumbo-Visma.....team. Even beating them.... using his favorite tactic. Staying in the whole day in the wheels..... to outsprint them at the finish. They will then completely raze him to the ground
And Van der Poel. He is by far the best Dutch rider, one of the best in the world and admired as well. But not as much as he deserves. Because he is not a full Duch (I know, very stupid), but mostly because he is not a member of the Dutch-linked Jumbu-vismateam, and, goodness, is a member of a Belgian team..

 

[theyoungest]

A few posters on Wielerflits..... really ? The majority handle hatespeech against non-Dutch riders or riders not belonging to the Jumbo-Visma team (cheered up by the editors with their suggestive articles). That's the reason why I predict that the adoration of Roglic will completely change next season. Especially when Roglic will compete against the ex-Jumbo-Visma.....team. Even beating them.... using his favorite tactic. Staying in the whole day in the wheels..... to outsprint them at the finish. They will then completely raze him to the ground
And Van der Poel. He is by far the best Dutch rider, one of the best in the world and admired as well. But not as much as he deserves. Because he is not a full Duch (I know, very stupid), but mostly because he is not a member of the Dutch-linked Jumbu-vismateam, and, goodness, is a member of a Belgian team..

Sorry, but you seem to have this obsession with Dutch people (what I would call a Calimero complex) that is based on nothing. Also, your opinions on for example Roglic seem to come directly from Sporza, and the Belgian press at large. Anyone whom Van Aert has to do a modicum of work for gets vilified and scrutinized over there. This year Roglic wasn't there in the Tour so it was Vingegaard's turn to be the culprit. But if you think the Dutch fans are overly enthusiastic about either of them, not really. Pogacar is the more popular rider everywhere, and also in the Netherlands.

Yes, Wielerflits are quite Jumbo-focused, because it generates traffic. But that goes with both the positive and the negative. If a hypothetical Jumbo rider (let's call him Michel H.) gets a doping violation to his name, that also comes with an undue amount of attention, more than a comparable rider from any other team. And Raymond Kerckhoffs by now has a PhD in Jumbo criticism, every slight mistake or hiccup gets a whole essay devoted to it. There is just no equivalent to that in Belgium, because you don't really have a cycling website or forum (strangely enough).

 

[shadowrider]

Sorry, but you seem to have this obsession with Dutch people (what I would call a Calimero complex) that is based on nothing. Also, your opinions on for example Roglic seem to come directly from Sporza, and the Belgian press at large. Anyone whom Van Aert has to do a modicum of work for gets vilified and scrutinized over there. This year Roglic wasn't there in the Tour so it was Vingegaard's turn to be the culprit. But if you think the Dutch fans are overly enthusiastic about either of them, not really. Pogacar is the more popular rider everywhere, and also in the Netherlands.

Yes, Wielerflits are quite Jumbo-focused, because it generates traffic. But that goes with both the positive and the negative. If a hypothetical Jumbo rider (let's call him Michel H.) gets a doping violation to his name, that also comes with an undue amount of attention, more than a comparable rider from any other team. And Raymond Kerckhoffs by now has a PhD in Jumbo criticism, every slight mistake or hiccup gets a whole essay devoted to it. There is just no equivalent to that in Belgium, because you don't really have a cycling website or forum (strangely enough).

That's not the point at all. Have you read regularly the reactions on Wielerflits the last years ? I don't think so. The hatereactions, referring to alleged character traits, body features as "ugly, dwarf, gnome, bastard, brat, drunkard...... etc".
"
The revenue model of Wielerflits is based on clicks and thumbs. The more the better. That's why Wielerflits is generating controversial, provocative titles and articles all the time. Most of Evenepoel and Lefevere. While there are so many interesting riders, team leaders... and subjects to bring.

Can you explain why those hate messages and serious insults can never be read on this forum Cyclingnews, the Innerring.... The only comparable forum with a majority of hate speakers is the French l'Equipe.

Just like with Wielerflits, there is no moderation. In Wielerflits there is only moderation and censorship against participants who denounce the hate messages.

 

[pastronef]

That's the reason why I predict that the adoration of Roglic will completely change next season. Especially when Roglic will compete against the ex-Jumbo-Visma.....

very true and on twitter it's already happening

 

[theyoungest]

That's not the point at all. Have you read regularly the reactions on Wielerflits the last years ? I don't think so. The hatereactions, referring to alleged character traits, body features as "ugly, dwarf, gnome, bastard, brat, drunkard...... etc".
"
The revenue model of Wielerflits is based on clicks and thumbs. The more the better. That's why Wielerflits is generating controversial, provocative titles and articles all the time. Most of Evenepoel and Lefevere. While there are so many interesting riders, team leaders... and subjects to bring.

Can you explain why those hate messages and serious insults can never be read on this forum Cyclingnews, the Innerring.... The only comparable forum with a majority of hate speakers is the French l'Equipe.

Just like with Wielerflits, there is no moderation. In Wielerflits there is only moderation and censorship against participants who denounce the hate messages.

I don't really like Wielerflits, but you see them as a kind of reflection of what Dutch cycling fans are like. That's insane. Wielerflits are like many social media in the sense that sensible, well thought out reactions don't really gain much traction and the most outrageous ones do. They're certainly not unique in that respect.

As for Evenepoel, the guy you seem to be most sensitive about, I actually think a lot of Dutch people like him, and certainly more than Vingegaard who is generally seen as rather boring. Not that I agree, but if we're speaking in clichés, there you go.

very true and on twitter it's already happening

Twitter is indeed another example of social media where only the most stupid or insane reactions survive.

 

[Rob5091]

So Team Rabobank v5.0 or whatever it is, will be doing O Gran Camino from Feb 24 to 26 next year. How will Vingegaard perform after the move to the land of bankers and cuckoo clocks? Maybe living la dolche vita in the Cantons will temper the enthusiasm? Or will Ma Vingegaard be there to oversee the preparation?!

Edit - As the Vingegaards are now the new Von Trapps, I wonder if Jonas has got around to having a yodel? (I always thought "yodel" in the song title was an euphemism for something ... umm ... else)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8IrLZwNgFY

(quiet news day here, you can tell!)

 

[Rob5091]

Interesting comments from former Sky-man Ian Boswell on guys going to Jumbo-Visma for less money then they could have got at Sky/Ineos. Which again raises the question of why did Jumbo-Visma have seemingly such problems getting a sponsor (and with DSM getting PostNL too)?
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ad-decided-to-go-to-jumbo-for-much-less-money