Teams & Riders Team Visma - Lease a Bike

[Red Rick]

Be right back gotta go smack my head against a wall

 

[Rollthedice]

After the succesful "Three Amigos" saga, another spaghetti western will hit the big screen, this time with a Dutch director. Provisionally titled "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" it will be shot on location in France during the summer. Can't wait.

 

[Breezy1985]

Can't believe I'm saying this but pity there's no TTT in the tour this year as TJV would smash it

 

[Cinemaniak]

Insane formation for the TdF. Kuss & De Plus killing the peloton before Dumoulin, Roglic and Kruijswijk go full gas.

 

[Bolder]

I had been hoping against hope that J-V would do this. You have to deliver a knockout blow to the champ.

 

[Lequack]

Insane formation for the TdF. Kuss & De Plus killing the peloton before Dumoulin, Roglic and Kruijswijk go full gas.

But how will they compete against each other. Will Roglic, Dumoulin or Kruijswik be allowed to attack each other? I would think not, so the differences between them will have to be made in TT or just following other people's attacks and hoping others can't. Will be an interesting dynamic.

 

[tobydawq]

But how will they compete against each other. Will Roglic, Dumoulin or Kruijswik be allowed to attack each other? I would think not, so the differences between them will have to be made in TT or just following other people's attacks and hoping others can't. Will be an interesting dynamic.

So you imagine them riding shoulder to shoulder until the penultimate stage (where the first TT is)?

I don't really think they think that would be the way to do it...

 

[Lequack]

So you imagine them riding shoulder to shoulder until the penultimate stage (where the first TT is)?

I don't really think they think that would be the way to do it...

I'm just saying for the team it's sometimes more difficult to win with three GC leaders, as we already know. Who attacks, who do you wait for, who gets a spare bike first, etc. Sometimes having a clear leader is a better way to go.
Personally I'd rather have every GC favorite on their own team competing against each other. Certainly better for the spectators.

 

[Bonimenier]

I'm just saying for the team it's sometimes more difficult to win with three GC leaders, as we already know. Who attacks, who do you wait for, who gets a spare bike first, etc. Sometimes having a clear leader is a better way to go.
Personally I'd rather have every GC favorite on their own team competing against each other. Certainly better for the spectators.

3v3 with Ineos could also result in a nice battle. Wouldn't be surprised tho if Froome or Bernal will smash the opponents.

 

[tobydawq]

I think Pinot and his little bespectacled buddy will also contribute to that battle.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I had been hoping against hope that J-V would do this. You have to deliver a knockout blow to the champ.

Gesink could be the weak link. I'd have taken Bennett instead.

Of course, Bennett wants to be a leader also. But he could have raced the Giro for GC and the Tour as a dom.

 

[KZD]

I think their had in mind making everyone happy while focusing more on the Tour (which is understandable because they never won it).

Roglic and Dumoulin will both lead the team in the Tour as they wished and then focus in the Olympics, Kruijswijk will still lead a Grand Tour (although its should have been the Giro), Groenewegen won't be in the Tour but will have a mini-sprint train in the Giro and Vuelta, Van Aert can have freedom to go for sprints in the Tour and even Bennett gets his chance of leading a Grand Tour (something that he couldn't do this season).

I still think their Giro team is too weak, they should have send either Kruijswijk or Dumoulin there but they are still more than a GC team.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Dumoulin, Roglic and Kruijswijk lead Jumbo-Visma Tour de France team

Groenewegen heads to the Giro d’Italia and Vuelta a Espana

www.cyclingnews.com

I was afraid they will waste a year or two, before realizing what it really takes, to beat teams like the Team INEOS at TDF. They really went all in this time. This is much more i have ever expected and even better compared to what i have wished for, regarding the TDF 2020. Lets start at the beginning. As for the Olympics. I somehow feel that more or less all TDF GC contenders, giving their very best, won't get much out of the Olympics. Groenewegen going to the Giro and especially to Vuelta, there should be plenty of opportunities for stage wins.

As for the TDF. The main support team is great. All captains, Roglič, Dumoulin and Kruijswijk, will basically be heavily preparing for TDF and should have a great potential to attend TDF in an optimal condition. Dumoulin gets two more month of preparation, compared to the Giro, that should result in knee injury to be fully rehabilitated. Gaining back the confidence and muscle strength and endurance. Not only does TJV have the ability to form a TJV Train (TJVT), now they basically have forced other teams, that want to have a realistic chance, to go all in. TJV core riders have matured in the past couple of (GT) races, that should result in less potential for crashes. In addition to more stability and the ability to form a TJVT, other teams should have a much harder time now, to control the race and should be more nervous, when it comes to determining the TJV tactics. TJV should have better ability to isolate opponents and to initiate tactical attacks, to wear down opponents, as all, Roglič, Dumoulin and Kruijswijk, have a realistic chance of winning the TDF 2020.

In my opinion the main TJV tactic will likely be, do as little as possible and to still be able to control the situation. Whenever in doubt, Roglič is the captain. I am happy that they made that clear, Roglič currently being the highest in the hierarchy. Obviously, if Roglič won't be in optimal condition, that can change during the race, other teams could focus too much on Roglič, and forget a bit about Dumoulin and Kruijswijk, therefore basically racing for the second place. And last but not least, TJV must not focus only on the Team INEOS, as that could end up being racing for the second place too.

 

[Red Rick]

They're completely ignoring the route. Roglic/Kruijwijk would've made sense this year in the Tour, or would have done more than having Dumoulin too and sending them off on a pure climbers route.

 

[CyclistAbi]

A strategy, where having all eggs in one basket, such strategy is usually a no go, as you can end up with nothing. In addition some friction between captains is indeed always possible. But all in all, at least from the cycling fan point of view, not all that much to complain about. TJV has been focusing on TDF 2020 for a couple of years now. Therefore i can understand, on why they went all in. As without great success at TDF 2020, the season likely won't count as being a successful one.

P.S. As for the Dumoulin, he expressed a while back, he wants to attend TDF 2020. Going to the Giro, that would likely come down to weakening the support team for TDF a bit. And once you are in such a team, you always have a possibility of winning TDF. Dumoulin likely just can't take a pass on that.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Red Rick, I’m curious why you think Roglic is better suited for Tour than Dumoulin. Both are excellent TTers who can climb, but Dumoulin has more consistently shown the ability to climb in high mountains GT after GT. Roglic has managed that once.

 

[sir fly]

Not that unexpected to go at the Tour with their top three GC riders, but it wouldn't bee unexpected should've they opted for one of them at the Giro either.
As far as I can remember, there wasn't much talk about Roglič trying again at the Giro, which was a small surprise to me, but Giro-Vuelta-Tour succession became pretty much standard nowadays, so he was certain to do the Tour, I suppose.
As lack of Giro in Roglič's plans was a surprise to me, its presence in Dumoulin's was a surprise too after the season he had this year. Although the route doesn't look bad for him, May could just be too soon to reach the level GT requires.
And after this year's podium, the team probably feels Kruijswijk's hitting career peak and it should be fully utilized.
Also, G's latest announcement and probable Ineos composition maybe tilted the TJV decision towards all in for the Tour, if there was any dilemma.
The rest of their planned lineup will surely draw some remarks from the fans, but only regarding a couple of places.

 

[Red Rick]

Red Rick, I’m curious why you think Roglic is better suited for Tour than Dumoulin. Both are excellent TTers who can climb, but Dumoulin has more consistently shown the ability to climb in high mountains GT after GT. Roglic has managed that once.

I meant it relatively. Theres quite a few shorter and steeper climbs in the Tour, and Dumoulin would be the much bigger Giro fave tham Roglic imo.

I saw Dumoulins interview yesterday, and I can understamd the points he makes. He really wamted to do the Tour cause he cant wait for a good route forever.

I dont believe there will be too much friction in the team.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I saw Dumoulins interview yesterday, and I can understamd the points he makes. He really wamted to do the Tour cause he cant wait for a good route forever.

Yeah, and because of the prestige, of course. He also pointed out that the 2020 Giro TTs aren't that selective in his opinion. It does indeed seem as if they have been designed to keep everyone and their mother in contention*, so an "easy" Giro win would have been out of the question, regardless.

* if we ignore Dennis.

 

[Red Rick]

I think they're more selective than the Giro of 2019. And 2019 had a much easier Tour route for him.

Still though, it's 2018 that doesn't compute for me apart from the RCS throwing money around.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I think they're more selective than the Giro of 2019. And 2019 had a much easier Tour route for him.

Still though, it's 2018 that doesn't compute for me apart from the RCS throwing money around.

2019 was Sunweb's doing, IMO. Or whoever was calling the shots. No wonder he wanted to leave.

First part of the 2020 Tour suits Roglic to a T. Scratch that, basically everything until and apart from Loze (or maybe Grand Golombier, but I doubt it). That's the bigger issue, IMO, that he's on the same team as Primoz now.

I don't think the route is bad for Dumoulin, considering the strengths and weaknesses of the other GC guys. I don;t think it's perfect for Bernal, either, for example. Loze certainly is, but not the rest.

 

[Red Rick]

2019 was Sunweb's doing, IMO. Or whoever was calling the shots. No wonder he wanted to leave.

First part of the 2020 Tour suits Roglic to a T. Scratch that, basically everything until and apart from Loze (or maybe Grand Golombier, but I doubt it). That's the bigger issue, IMO, that he's on the same team as Primoz now.

I don't think the route is bad for Dumoulin, considering the strengths and weaknesses of the other GC guys. I don;t think it's perfect for Bernal, either, for example. Loze certainly is, but not the rest.

I don't really believe Dumoulin going to the Giro in 2019 happens if Dumoulin wants to go to the Tour. Tour after Giro was probably the compromise, just like in 2018 in my opinion. And I would blame Sunweb for what happend after that Giro crash a decent bit as well.

I think an unmentioned advantage Dumoulin has over Roglic is that the ITT is in the 3rd week, and Dumoulin's ITT falls off a lot less than Roglic' ITT.

As for Bernal. He won the Tour last year, but I still don't know how to rate him, seeing as he got dropped in the Pyrenees and after Pinot fell off, the field looked unconvincing to me. Like I don't believe Kruijswijk couldn't do Iseran faster but he tried to get his domestique with him. This is not to say Kruijswijk could follow Bernal, cause he clearly couldn't.

Lastly, another area where this Tour route is bad imo is it seems to me there's very little ways in which you can use your multiple team leaders. Especially the biggest stages have humongous MTFs where attacking early is suicide (I thinkGrand Colombier suits Dumoulin great), and for all the hype about Jumbo I don't see them outgunning Ineos that badly. Best case scenario for Jumbo is both Dumoulin and Roglic are better than Thomas while Froome doesn't have it.

For team tactics. I don't believe there will be friction. Dumoulin has made it perfectly clear he doesn't mind working for other riders and I believe him when he says he doesn't want to ride for a lesser placing and that if he's not the best Jumbo rider he wouldn't win on another team anyway. The only problem I potentially see is that Roglic could well be clearly better in the first 2 weeks before fading, and when that happens Roglic might ship time to Dumoulin rather quickly. Basically I hope Kruijswijk will be the designated Roglic domestique when that happens.

The ideal Tour for me is still just Thibaut Pinot roflstomping everyone for 3 weeks though.

 

[tobydawq]

Is Roglic' TT falling off a lot based on the instance where he rode around with a splinter in his elbow, rendering his TT position pure agony or the instance where he couldn't follow the top guys in the mountains, either?

 

[Red Rick]

Is Roglic' TT falling off a lot based on the instance where he rode around with a splinter in his elbow, rendering his TT position pure agony or the instance where he couldn't follow the top guys in the mountains, either?

Also the Giro ITT where he got beaten by Nibali. Also Tirreno this year, Dumoulin beat him at the end of Tirreno while Roglic was in better form.

I think this is part of the main difference between Roglic and Dumoulin. Dumoulin will keep up a high power output even if he gets dropped. He may crack but doesn't really break. He's actually really good at climbs that start out really hard and then flatten out a bit. I think Roglic tries to pace himself too when reacting to attacks, but once he pops he loses more time than Dumoulin will do.

However, I also question to what extent the Giro was a good reflection on Roglic, given the stupid decision to do Romandie before that.

Lastly, it's just hard to guess where Dumoulin will be in general in terms of level compared to his Sunweb years, etc.

 

[Mayomaniac]

According to La Gazzetta Bianchi isn't happy with everyone going to the Tour, they are trying to convince Dumoulin to do the double.