Teams & Riders Team Visma - Lease a Bike

[Red Rick]

I saw his interviews. I doubt Bianchi can convince him of anything.

Actually, Kruijswijk preferring to be 3rd wheel at the Tour rather than leading the Giro is a surprise to me.

 

[roundabout]

I don't really believe Dumoulin going to the Giro in 2019 happens if Dumoulin wants to go to the Tour. Tour after Giro was probably the compromise, just like in 2018 in my opinion. And I would blame Sunweb for what happend after that Giro crash a decent bit as well.

I think an unmentioned advantage Dumoulin has over Roglic is that the ITT is in the 3rd week, and Dumoulin's ITT falls off a lot less than Roglic' ITT.

As for Bernal. He won the Tour last year, but I still don't know how to rate him, seeing as he got dropped in the Pyrenees and after Pinot fell off, the field looked unconvincing to me. Like I don't believe Kruijswijk couldn't do Iseran faster but he tried to get his domestique with him. This is not to say Kruijswijk could follow Bernal, cause he clearly couldn't.

Lastly, another area where this Tour route is bad imo is it seems to me there's very little ways in which you can use your multiple team leaders. Especially the biggest stages have humongous MTFs where attacking early is suicide (I thinkGrand Colombier suits Dumoulin great), and for all the hype about Jumbo I don't see them outgunning Ineos that badly. Best case scenario for Jumbo is both Dumoulin and Roglic are better than Thomas while Froome doesn't have it.

For team tactics. I don't believe there will be friction. Dumoulin has made it perfectly clear he doesn't mind working for other riders and I believe him when he says he doesn't want to ride for a lesser placing and that if he's not the best Jumbo rider he wouldn't win on another team anyway. The only problem I potentially see is that Roglic could well be clearly better in the first 2 weeks before fading, and when that happens Roglic might ship time to Dumoulin rather quickly. Basically I hope Kruijswijk will be the designated Roglic domestique when that happens.

The ideal Tour for me is still just Thibaut Pinot roflstomping everyone for 3 weeks though.

Roche-sur-Foron - 30km after Glieres

Villard-de-Lans - 20km after the last big climb

Mont Aigoual - 14km after Lusette

A numerical advantage at these points might work especially if there are teammates as well

As for big MTFs it's also a gamble for the chasing team and yes, it's possible that one of the 3 may have to take a gamble to either win, or for one of the other 2 to have a better chance of winning

Or it can happen like you wrote that they would be simply better with not team tactics required.

 

[Red Rick]

Roche-sur-Foron - 30km after Glieres

Villard-de-Lans - 20km after the last big climb

Mont Aigoual - 14km after Lusette

A numerical advantage at these points might work especially if there are teammates as well

As for big MTFs it's also a gamble for the chasing team and yes, it's possible that one of the 3 may have to take a gamble to either win, or for one of the other 2 to have a better chance of winning

Or it can happen like you wrote that they would be simply better with not team tactics required.

I'd consider the final mountain stage the most important one there. For most of the others I feel it's fairly certain nothing will happen before the final climb.

But the numbers would also simply disincentivize Ineos shenanigans if they decide to send Thomas up the road.

 

[Lequack]

According to La Gazzetta Bianchi isn't happy with everyone going to the Tour, they are trying to convince Dumoulin to do the double.

Obviously for an Italian brand it would be better to have a very good result in the Giro.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I agree that Roglič has been better at TT if TT is at the beginning or at the middle of a GT race. One i guess only needs to take a look at his physique, and how it changes during a GT race, to understand on why. Having a stronger team, that should help in that regard a bit. And another thing, where he has much potential, to preserve more TT power is health. A crash, a cold, stomach issues, due to bad nutrition ... That just takes massive amount off effort, for the body, to heal. And until now Roglič basically hasn't done a GT, without involving much of that.

P.S. As for the Giro. I can understand, on why some are not happy about the TJV decision. TDF will likely get all the spotlight in 2020 season, but realistically Giro did a better job at providing an overall route.

 

[CyclistAbi]

A day after thinking about it and in my opinion, Roglič, Dumoulin and Kruijswijk all going to the TDF 2020. The explanation is likely rather simple. TJV wants to win the TDF 2020, that is what 2020 season is about, for TJV. All of the captains and support team will basically have that goal, set as the primary goal until TDF starts. Attending other GT races, before TDF, that would just waste and split resources, increase the chance of injuries, get in a way of optimal preparation ... from TJV point of view.

 

[Red Rick]

A day after thinking about it and in my opinion, Roglič, Dumoulin and Kruijswijk all going to the TDF 2020. The explanation is likely rather simple. TJV wants to win the TDF 2020, that is what 2020 season is about, for TJV. All of the captains and support team will basically have that goal, set as the primary goal until TDF starts. Attending other GT races, before TDF, that would just waste and split resources, increase the chance of injuries, get in a way of optimal preparation ... from TJV point of view.

Roglic had an agreement long before Dumoulin came on board to focus on the Tour in 2020.

I imagine Dumoulin going to the Tour heavily featured in the buy out talks already.

Kruijswijk doesn't really make much sense to me. He's overachieved at the Tour, and if he prefers to be 3rd wheel at the Tour rather than lead the Giro then that's just sad to me.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Roglic had an agreement long before Dumoulin came on board to focus on the Tour in 2020.

I imagine Dumoulin going to the Tour heavily featured in the buy out talks already.

Kruijswijk doesn't really make much sense to me. He's overachieved at the Tour, and if he prefers to be 3rd wheel at the Tour rather than lead the Giro then that's just sad to me.

I think Kruijswijk will be more of a superdom (like Bennett was supposed to be for him) and a tactical ace up their sleeves. Should Roglic crash and Dumoulin falter (or the other way around) they can still rely on Kruijswijk for a top 5 spot. But i think that's only a distant possibility or scenario. I can see Kruijswijk being used to either work for "Dumoglic" in the final 5k, or attacking from further out, forcing Ineos to get their hands dirty sooner rather than later, putting Dumo & Roglic in a comfortable position. That way the Ineos leaders might be forced to show their hand too soon, since they can't afford to simply let the number 3 of last year ride away.

So i think bringing Kruijswijk is certainly not sad, but tactically sound. Kruijswijk probably knows he won't ever improve upon his 3rd spot (unless due to a tactical failure by the opposition as i mentioned above), so he might be at peace with his role (in fact, he might have a bigger shot at winning this way, with all eyes on Roglic & Dumoulin) if he can lead at the Vuelta in return.

 

[CyclistAbi]

On a GT race, such as the TDF, just about anything is possible. That is why i feel that all three will give their best. Before the race preparing and during it. Based on the dynamics from the previous years and based on all that was said recently i somehow feel Roglič is the captain, when it comes to TDF 2020 and Dumoulin and Kruijswijk have somewhat accepted that. Their chances being plan B and plan C. In case plan A doesn't work out. Not doing a GT race before the TDF. That increases the chance of riders being optimally prepared for TDF and to be healthy. It's not fair, when it comes to GT races such as the Giro, but i do feel that Giro will come in the spotlight in one of the future seasons. And basically TJV has removed the sprinters crew completely, from TDF 2020 plan. As said, they really went all in this time. There are literary no eggs left to be put in this basket.

P.S. As for Dumoulin and Kruijswijk and TDF 2020. Their best chances will likely come from initiating tactical attacks, on stages that suits them well and in case other teams won't respond and do the work.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Doubt they can count on Steven K. for a top 5 anymore. He was only on Buchmann's level, after all, on a course that suited him mcuh better than the more explosive 2020 TDF course. When he had to dom (for Roglic) he didn't bury himself, either. (Romandie)

Apparently Gesink still wants that TDF stage win, also. Not gonna happen, of course, but he will try.

They will leave their best mountain dom by far at home, also.

This is not "going all in"

I'd have taken this team instead:

Roglic
Dumoulin

Bennett
De Plus
Kuss
Van Aert
Amund G Jansen
Martin


with Van Aert chasing stage wins, when he's not needed. Bennett/De Plus/Kuss only when Rogla and Dumo are no longer in contention.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

On a GT race, such as the TDF, just about anything is possible. That is why i feel that all three will give their best. Before the race preparing and during it. Based on the dynamics from the previous years and based on all that was said recently i somehow feel Roglič is the captain, when it comes to TDF 2020 and Dumoulin and Kruijswijk have somewhat accepted that. Their chances being plan B and plan C. In case plan A doesn't work out. Not doing a GT race before the TDF. That increases the chance of riders being optimally prepared for TDF and to be healthy. It's not fair, when it comes to GT races such as the Giro, but i do feel that Giro will come in the spotlight in one of the future seasons. And basically TJV has removed the sprinters crew completely, from TDF 2020 plan. As said, they really went all in this time. There are literary no eggs left to be put in this basket.

I don't feel that's the case. I think Tom will be at least alongside Primoz in the pecking order, with Kruijswijk having the more dynamic role, like i described in my previous post. Also, don't forget this is a Dutch team, and though the country has somehow garnered the image of having had a lot of GT GC talent, they have won so very few of those. The last one (in the past decades), being Tom.

Doubt they can count on Steven K. for a top 5 anymore. He was only on Buchmann's level, after all, on a course that suited him mcuh better than the more explosive 2020 TDF course. When he had to dom (for Roglic) he didn't bury himself, either. (Romandie)
...
They will leave their best mountain dom by far at home, also.
...

I think they can use Kruijswijk in a more tactical role. If he attacks, Ineos needs to work. He may not be good enough to duke it out with the others on the last 5k of the last climb, but he's still a guy they need to mark.

Also, who is the best mountain dom in your opinion? Kuss? Or Bennett? Don't know if either of them can really comfortably claim that title.

 

[Escarabajo]

I saw his interviews. I doubt Bianchi can convince him of anything.

Actually, Kruijswijk preferring to be 3rd wheel at the Tour rather than leading the Giro is a surprise to me.

This.
I can understand Roglic and Dumoulin. I don't understand Kruijswijk. With the way he rides he is limited to win the Tour. So he will be, probably a superdomestique. So if I was him I'd try to convince Jumbo to at least let him go to the Giro. He can still be a superdomestique at the Tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

With the Team Sunweb Dumoulin was in a rather unhappy place and in addition injured. He had to know about the plans Roglič and TJV have for TDF 2020. Therefore there is a chance Dumoulin wanted to participate in TDF 2020, to show there is a new sheriff in town. But i somehow feel that is not the case. He has just started training at full intensity (December 2019), he needs that extra few months, to get back in a good shape. And there is little guarantee Dumoulin will be in a shape of the lifetime in the very first GT race he does. That is why i feel he is rather OK with the role he has for TDF 2020. As for the Kruijswijk. I am not all that sure, he had the Giro option open, likely not. As in that case TJV would have to dedicate a rather strong support team and all participants would be able to help a bit less in TDF 2020, injuries could have happened.

In short, what TJV likely is after, is to build a team that is psychically and mentally prepared for TDF 2020. Doing a GT race before and going after GC, that just undermines the TDF 2020 plan.

 

[Red Rick]

With the Team Sunweb Dumoulin was in a rather unhappy place and in addition injured. He had to know about the plans Roglič and TJV have for TDF 2020. Therefore there is a chance Dumoulin wanted to participate in TDF 2020, to show there is a new sheriff in town. But i somehow feel that is not the case. He has just started training at full intensity (December 2019), he needs that extra few months, to get back in a good shape. And there is little guarantee Dumoulin will be in a shape of the lifetime in the very first GT race he does. That is why i feel he is rather OK with the role he has for TDF 2020. As for the Kruijswijk. I am not all that sure, he had the Giro option open, likely not. As in that case TJV would have to dedicate a rather strong support team and all participants would therefore be able to help a bit less in TDF 2020, injuries could have happened.

Ohyeah that's a very good point I really forgot about.

 

[Lequack]

 

[Red Rick]

I think Groenewegen's greatest weaknesses is neck aerodynamics

 

[Bolder]

Roglic had an agreement long before Dumoulin came on board to focus on the Tour in 2020.

I imagine Dumoulin going to the Tour heavily featured in the buy out talks already.

Kruijswijk doesn't really make much sense to me. He's overachieved at the Tour, and if he prefers to be 3rd wheel at the Tour rather than lead the Giro then that's just sad to me.

I agree with your 3rd assertion 100 percent. I thought Bennett would be the first dom. But perhaps TJV has let him know that he can ship as much time as he wants in the non-mountain stages, or even target 2-3 as a superdomestique. I'm interested to see if De Plus can really be a top level climber.

There was an earlier post suggesting the JV might be stronger than Ineos. No way, and especially not with Dennis. But this lineup gives them the best chance.

 

[CyclistAbi]

From TDF 2020 point of view Team INEOS now has a rather hard job, to provide a stronger team. As TJV did their homework good. They went all in and at the same time were able to establish a rather clear hierarchy. In addition they did all of this early.

 

[Koronin]

I guess the question is: Can Jumbo Visma pull off a three leader team cohesively or do we end up with the circus Movistar had? If they can pull it off it will be a very difficult team to beat. If they can't it will be as insane to watch as Movistar the past two years. Either way it will be interesting.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

i think it will be different from movistar. All 3 are not that much of insane ego's.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Based on the information shared i feel they can. Whenever in doubt, Roglič is the captain. If for whatever reason such plan won't work out, Dumoulin and/or Kruijswijk will get a green light. Therefore i guess it's up to Roglič, to do his part. If he will be able to deliver i do feel that both Dumoulin and Kruijswijk will be prepared to help.

 

[jaylew]

This.
I can understand Roglic and Dumoulin. I don't understand Kruijswijk. With the way he rides he is limited to win the Tour. So he will be, probably a superdomestique. So if I was him I'd try to convince Jumbo to at least let him go to the Giro. He can still be a superdomestique at the Tour.

Makes perfect sense to me. They are putting team goals above individual goals. Their #1 goal this season is winning the Tour. Having Kruijswijk as a super dom for Dumo and Roglic is how they combat Ineos. I think it's a great idea.

 

[Lequack]

I wonder if they really have to wear their bibs everywhere

 

[Red Rick]

"Primoz don't like interviews too much."

"Yeah let's dress him up like Santa, that'll show him. What's he gonna do? Ski jump away?"

 

[CyclistAbi]

This is what i was afraid of. Last season was a great success, now i guess only partying, good food and such things are on their mind! Reminds me:

Andy Ruiz on Anthony Joshua Loss, I Partied Too Hard and Ate Everything!

Joking aside, what likely really happened is they had to attend some public relations event and it was on the way, during training. That is why they all wear bibs. A few minutes after the shot was taken, they likely were on their bikes again.

P.S. Would be interesting though, if Roglič would compete in Four Hills Tournament. But no, better to focus on TDF 2020 completely.