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Cycling111

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Nordhagen and Cian crashed in France.
The number of crashes Visma riders suffer is incredible.

Between illnesses and crashes, Nordhagen isn't getting off to a good start to the season.
Last year, he missed many days of competition due to illness.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Cycling111 said:
Nordhagen and Cian crashed in France.
The number of crashes Visma riders suffer is incredible.

Between illnesses and crashes, Nordhagen isn't getting off to a good start to the season.
Last year, he missed many days of competition due to illness.
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Nordhagen clipped the back wheel of Uijtdebroeks on the final climb and crashed. I didn't see Uijtdebroeks crash though, he just went backwards.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Rackham said:
I have plenty of hot takes regarding 'formerly' Jumbo. It's a fun topic.

I mean straight off the bat it's sport. High level, no mercy, take-no-prisoners top level sport. Visma were the team to beat and now they're getting beaten. A bit like years ago Quick-Step were the team to beat in classics and now they're 'beaten'.

People are throwing around reasons right now and there's some truth in all of them (loss of Zeeman, injuries, overly scientific approach etc. and whatever else) but honestly I could throw in 'natural passage of time' as well.

Their riders might just not be as strong as they used to be for whatever reasons, i.e. also because it's really freaking hard to maintain that top level for so long. I mean Benoot looks semi cooked compared to a few years ago. Kelderman the same. Their entire TdF 'monster dream team' from 2022/23 looks bang average now. Yates has shown nothing since he joined (no progression) and Kuss has just totally collapsed from his 2023 level.

I also think Jorgenson is being misused (he won a major one day race last year so he's in the classics team when he really should be doing Catalunya/Itzulia and winning stage races. Maybe even doing the Giro as well).

Just my opinion.
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Even though this post is already slightly dated because they weren't all that bad in the races since, I'd say that they were performing way above their pay grade for two or three years and now they are not. Also a massive brain drain won't have helped them. Strangely, it doesn't seem to have helped Red Bull to "buy" these brains either, because they're performing even worse so far. Visma's nutrionist went to Ajax though, and they're about to become champions of the Netherlands, so there's that.

Finally I think Visma's dominance was always slightly overstated. For instance, they won all three GTs in one year, but if you look at how they did it... especially the Giro with Roglic, it was a miracle he won because he actually wasn't all that great. In the Vuelta where they filled the entire podium UAE were just ridiculously bad tactically. And in the Monuments Visma weren't much better than they are now.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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CyclistAbi said:
In 2024 season they won a GT and were runner up at another one, among some other prominent results. This season stage racing is only really starting so we will see if they can do even better in 2025 season. Fingers crossed!
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But they also clearly invested in, and had big ambitions for, the classics season... so far with little to no results. Stage races are another story, but the same goes for Visma of course.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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theyoungest said:
But they also clearly invested in, and had big ambitions for, the classics season... so far with little to no results. Stage races are another story, but the same goes for Visma of course.
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I mean did they? They invested in stage racing much more and it is paying off. For classics i would say they are building up for the future and imminent success, unless they sign a top rider for classics, is currently not realistic. As this is Visma thread, even Visma is struggling and has a top rider for stage races and for classics and still not a lot of wins involved. If you look at what is currently the back bone of Red Bull A team, it's in my opinion much more stage racing oriented team so it's much more realistic to expect results in stage racing. If there will be results they are doing a good job, otherwise there is some room left for improvement. Like when it comes to Visma, they can't exactly be praised in the 2025 season, for doing good in classics, considering the riders involved.
 
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Statze2

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Visma what a difficult situation they are in. In the winter I was very positive about the squad and the outcome for the team, but the first months were quite complicated.

Van Aert didn´t win a major race but is delivering good results and UCI points (yes you can argue about this).
Jorgenson had some good results (Paris Nice) and some okish classics.
Vingegaard was winning the first stage race he participated and then DNF in Paris Nice - thats it. But its ok, as he will never race many races outside of some one week stage races and major grand tours.
Kooij is doing good, winning sprint races and he will continue winning.
Brennan had his break through with impressive results, maybe an upcoming classic/sprint star.
Benoot with a good but not very good classics campaign. He will be a major loss for Visma when he is heading towards Decathlon (?).

But after these riders? Nothing... Due to various reasons, but over all its not what Visma should aim for.
Laporte ill no race this year. Van Baarle just a domestique, no results. Valter the same, hoped that he will be able to take the next step, but not until now.

Stage racing team around Yates, Kuss, Cian, Nordhagen, Kelderman. Yates nothing until now, lets see if he can deliver a top 5 at the Giro, if he is then a good domestique at the tour, he then whould have done his job quit good. Kuss, cant remember any decent results, will be interesting to see if he can get in peak form for the tour and be helpful. Cian has to many health issues and was not able to take the next step, so basically a no show.
Ben Tulett is doing quit good, but I think he is close to his ceiling.
Nordhagen is doing ok, he is not taking the next steps as fast as some other young riders, but thats ok, he is on track and can be a promising one in the next months/years.

None of the other young bees had taken the next step until now, there are many races left where they can shine. For Visma it is necessary that one or two are stepping up and shine in the next months. (Behrens, Gloag, Graat, Hagenes, Huising, Van Belle)

The first row is still pretty impressive but is racing to less and the second row is not as good as I thought it is and maybe Visma needs to adjust some things in the next transfer window.

Bringing in new stage racers that can bring in results when the big boys are on Teide, Piganzoli is the first rumour in this direction. The problem is I don´t see much riders on the market with the speciality GC. Any suggestions?
And let some good and deserved riders go like van Baarle and Valter, to give the team a new look and some fresh input.
Kooij will be an interesting topic, does Visma wants to invest that much money on a pure sprinter and wants Kooij to stay?

The biggest problem could be that not many riders are on the market, that can be a short term booster for the team. Visma needs to make a deep dive into the U19/U23 ranks and find one or two new upcoming stars. Do you see riders on the market that can be a short term boost for the team?
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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They already have too many U23 riders on the pro team after signing 10 such riders over the past two years. I can imagine that Pietro Mattio will be the only such signing for next year (maybe also Rex), as they also have some good talents further down the pipeline.

Simply getting a year older and with less illness on the team would help a lot.

Piganzoli, Kielich, Covi are all fine transfers in this window. Vauquelin would be the dream transfer, but solid, reliable doms like Berthet or Armirail would also be welcome.
 
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Wyndbrook

Oct 4, 2020
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Let's look again at the end of July.
Giro has hardly started, Kooij is likely to win stages, even starting today. Yates could emerge after three weeks in the pinky blouse.
Vingegaard probably gives the Poogi a hard time at the Tour and it's not inconceivable that he emerges as the winner.
 
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Pozzovivo

Pozzovivo

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Cycling111 said:
Laporte, I don't know who else.
It's very strange. It sounds like an excuse to me. Teams smaller than Visma have gone to races with 4-5 riders of development team. Not even teams that don't have DT miss a race entirely.
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Laporte's been out since january! That can't be the reason - nor would he attend Slovenia if he was fit.
 
Pozzovivo

Pozzovivo

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Brennan is so freakin good!?

He gaps WT riders in flat sprint and on puncheur terrain as a 19 year old neopro.

Visma should bring him to the Tour. He could seriously win flat sprints and position Vingegaard perfectly if that is his job, and could take bonis away from Pogacar on the punchy stages. Top 10 rider in the world.
 
Berniece

Berniece

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James M said:
Their budget has substantially shrunk after Jumbo left, and several essential key employees, including high-end valuable nutritionists, have left for competitors too.
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But still... They are the 5th biggest team when it comes to the budget. And they are 5th because you now got Red Bull, Lidl and Decathlon that joined as sponsors. Otherwise they would still be number two
 
Pozzovivo

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Berniece said:
But still... They are the 5th biggest team when it comes to the budget. And they are 5th because you now got Red Bull, Lidl and Decathlon that joined as sponsors. Otherwise they would still be number two
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What credible sources do we have on budget? Vlab employs so many more people than most WT teams do. Their support staff is enormous yet people focus only on rider salary as if that is the only relevant metric.
 
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Cycling111

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Simon improved the climb record by a minute and a half
.I never understood this idea that Visma isn't in shape.

The thing is, Visma doesn't care about Abruzzo and other races that UAE wins.
But in the end, Visma has won GTs with four different riders since 2023, while UAE has only won with one

That's more significant than winning 80 races, half of them with one rider and the other half in Abruzzo, Asturias, or Coppa Bernochi.

Edit, Simon no Adam obviously :sweatsmile:
 
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Sep 17, 2020
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Cycling111 said:
Adam improved the climb record by a minute and a half
.I never understood this idea that Visma isn't in shape.

The thing is, Visma doesn't care about Abruzzo and other races that UAE wins.
But in the end, Visma has won GTs with four different riders since 2023, while UAE has only won with one

That's more significant than winning 80 races, half of them with one rider and the other half in Abruzzo, Asturias, or Coppa Bernochi.
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more.
 
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