Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

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Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Moviefan1203 said:
I still believe in Tejay. He is still fairly young, perhaps next year he can crack the podium. There is still hope!
Absolutely! He's no slouch. Following the wheels is what you need to do sometimes. You have to know your limits. Why attack and it backfires? Lose a minute on everybody else. It almost happened to Aru today...you can only do your best, and his best is quite good. Last year was really good. Let's not be "oh gloom and doom" or overly excited. I know it's hard not to do ;) .
Here here!
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
Mayomaniac said:
TJVG will finish higher on gc than Porte, I'm pretty sure about that.
The competition for a top 5 spot will be pretty hard, but it's not impossible.
I'd still like him to change things up a bit, but he's the American gc rider at BMC, so him focussing on another gt than the Tour isn't exactly realistic.
Edit: I think that becoming super skinny is one of the main reasons why he's suffering the cold, rainy weather more than he used to.
No, goals have to be realistic and RELEVANT. Is it relevant for an American rider on an American team to not be granted a CHANCE as the GC leader at the Tour? No. Is it realistic? No. Realistic trumps relevant.

A podium at the Giro or Vuelta is better than the Tour because Tejay had an opportunity. This is why I am critical of BMC; they've gambled it all on the Tour and taking Porte's 1:45 loss on stage 2, guess where he'd be? Third on GC. Don't forget that...he's clearly stronger than Tejay.

Problem is Tejay's affinity for getting sick. He's also stupid for racing without wet weather gear. He's almost 28! That's dumb. Who doesn't rug up? Tejay!! Look what it did to him in the Tour de Suisse! Bad day and lost heaps of time. That is a 9 day stage race.

We have the second rest day approaching. BMC better have found and fixed Tejay's problem from 2014 and 2015. The problem? It's been obvious for a long time now. His weight. He's far too below his bodies natural homeostasis and you can see it...it leaves him more prone to getting sick.

Of course that weight loss means he can compete, but for what? A 'realistic' as you described it 5th at the Tour? Bardet is 45 seconds behind him after the time trial and of all the riders to Porte, in 8th, ALL of them have put time into Tejay in the 2 mountain stages where racing occurred.

Where are these so called climbing legs? Valverde has a grand tour in his legs and he is just in front of Tejay on GC! He's also carrying Quintana...sorry, but Tejay needs to actually do something or his position will remain the same.

Of course he could...but does he have form? We'll see in a few days. That mountain time trial is going to reveal everything.
Please, do not be pessimistic TJ is riding himself into shape.
 
Jul 11, 2014
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I agree with Mtarget. He clearly isn't an elite GT rider, and like he said there only only a few guys in the world the fits that build. He still has an amazing cycling career ahead of him and one can't deny he's a very good GT rider. Some people on here seem to think since he's not one of those elite guys then he's a total boob. I enjoy watching him, and maybe one year (with some luck) he'll crack a podium on a GT.
 
Aug 21, 2015
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I think Tejay just got overhyped based on his 2 top 5s in nearly perfect situations(2014 had no competition behind Nibili). A lot of talk of him doing the Vuelta or Giro but I don't see him doing much better there as the climbs are steeper and there are still good riders in those races. He is what he is at this point as a top 10 GT rider who can finish in the top 5 if things go right and may snag a podium if things go perfect one year in his career.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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I think some are too harsh on him. Tour de Suisse might play a role; no one who rode TdS is quite ok at the Tour. Look at Izaguirre who sucks, Barguil, Costa, Kelderman... Of course it might not be because of TdS, but who knows. Still TJ is placed decently and it's wide open, minimal time gaps in top ten.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Re: Re:

This Charming Man said:
Galic Ho said:
Mayomaniac said:
TJVG will finish higher on gc than Porte, I'm pretty sure about that.
The competition for a top 5 spot will be pretty hard, but it's not impossible.
I'd still like him to change things up a bit, but he's the American gc rider at BMC, so him focussing on another gt than the Tour isn't exactly realistic.
Edit: I think that becoming super skinny is one of the main reasons why he's suffering the cold, rainy weather more than he used to.
No, goals have to be realistic and RELEVANT. Is it relevant for an American rider on an American team to not be granted a CHANCE as the GC leader at the Tour? No. Is it realistic? No. Realistic trumps relevant.

A podium at the Giro or Vuelta is better than the Tour because Tejay had an opportunity. This is why I am critical of BMC; they've gambled it all on the Tour and taking Porte's 1:45 loss on stage 2, guess where he'd be? Third on GC. Don't forget that...he's clearly stronger than Tejay.

Problem is Tejay's affinity for getting sick. He's also stupid for racing without wet weather gear. He's almost 28! That's dumb. Who doesn't rug up? Tejay!! Look what it did to him in the Tour de Suisse! Bad day and lost heaps of time. That is a 9 day stage race.

We have the second rest day approaching. BMC better have found and fixed Tejay's problem from 2014 and 2015. The problem? It's been obvious for a long time now. His weight. He's far too below his bodies natural homeostasis and you can see it...it leaves him more prone to getting sick.

Of course that weight loss means he can compete, but for what? A 'realistic' as you described it 5th at the Tour? Bardet is 45 seconds behind him after the time trial and of all the riders to Porte, in 8th, ALL of them have put time into Tejay in the 2 mountain stages where racing occurred.

Where are these so called climbing legs? Valverde has a grand tour in his legs and he is just in front of Tejay on GC! He's also carrying Quintana...sorry, but Tejay needs to actually do something or his position will remain the same.

Of course he could...but does he have form? We'll see in a few days. That mountain time trial is going to reveal everything.
Please, do not be pessimistic TJ is riding himself into shape.
Consider yourself fortunate I don't pull the quotes from the man himself and post them here.

He's believed his own hype and has to face reality. Humbling himself and not talking up his recovery ability in the third week and Froome's apparent weakness would look good.

Oh you didn't know? He did big mouth himself and look how it goes! He cannot keep the wheel of the remaining top 12 riders. He's within a minute of dropping well outside the top 10.

Tejay and BMC have done this to himself. He is not podium material at the Tour de France. A wise and well structured racing calendar does not allow a rider who failed to finish successive grand tours in 2015 to ride into the next season and big mouth themselves, himself and claim the most dominant rider in the peloton for the Tour has a 'weakness.' Few believe that right now...Valverde is the only one thinking Froome has a weakness and that might not be a valid translation I read. Valverde has other results. Three Fleche Wallone results in a row and a Giro podium and he's 36. Tejay takes what away from this year? A stage in the Tour de Suisse! He's aiming for the Tour podium people and many here expect it from him!! Not being harsh, I am stating be REALISTIC and pick a RELEVANT goal that he can achieve.

Valverde rode the Giro and has a podium. He didn't crack yesterday. Come on, be serious and care about the rider. If you're a fan, then why are you being merry and ignorant? Tejay clearly NEEDS a good GC result in a grand tour. I've laid down a solid case in the Porte thread and perhaps this one as to why BMC needed to ride the Giro FIRST as a team and get a result there for one of their riders...simply for their own well being. Do you think Tejay wasn't hit mentally by bonking the last two years on stage after the second rest day? That's Wednesday! It's a mountain top finish and has a time trial following and then another mountain top finish!

It gets heaps harder!! And Tejay is already losing time. He simply does not have the power and recovery.

So why send him into this race an unknown force? What happens to him mentally, emotionally and as a person if he doesn't get the lofty heights spoke of? Yeah, I care champ...more than the fanboys. It's why I say don't over hype a rider. Richie has actually exceeded what I expected.

Riding himself into shape? Sure. When he actually sticks with everyone, you can claim that.

If you said Quintana, you would have had a small basis for that, based on last years results. Few would believe you given how powerful Poels and the Sky train were yesterday...which is why sending Tejay to the Giro where that absurdity doesn't occur is smart. Actually it's sensible and would help him.

I hope he does lose time, so he can switch his attitude and launch an attack for Richie. Richie can podium at this moment. Will he? BMC have to help him with that. Sitting on the back losing time for the long sited hope of maybe 10th...be reasonable and relevant please. Optimistic? You're being irrational not optimistic. Hoping Quintana has some power and recovery to make a move is optimism...believing Tejay is recovering is obnoxious.

Actually I will say it...the only way that logic would work would be if Tejay was employing Armstrong methodology like a madman...and he does ride with him doesn't he! And yet, he's dropping....being realistic.

Lesson: don't over hype a rider and leave him in a position where this can occur. Send him to the Giro. Get him a win in Romandie, California or the Suisse...something. No shame in that. Banking it all on the Tour is RIDICULOUS when your ability is too far below. Luck, or misfortune is how Tejay can finish 5th...that's not good enough and stable enough for a rider.

And yes, if this sounds harsh, I am sorry...but I'm not making him into someone he isn't or putting him in a position where the inevitable inability to convert occurs and he's left dejected. No, I'm giving you options...BMC just have to be honest and take them. Why else did they buy Porte?
 
Aug 12, 2009
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52520Andrew said:
I think Tejay just got overhyped based on his 2 top 5s in nearly perfect situations(2014 had no competition behind Nibili). A lot of talk of him doing the Vuelta or Giro but I don't see him doing much better there as the climbs are steeper and there are still good riders in those races. He is what he is at this point as a top 10 GT rider who can finish in the top 5 if things go right and may snag a podium if things go perfect one year in his career.
A team time trial, long climbs and a complete lack of a Sky team train that can pop him is right where he needs.

Tejay is a diesel. He can handle the longer climbs fine. Whatever he was sold years ago, he believed and has been doing the Tour forever. Next year he needs to switch his focus. Stage races and one grand tour that is not the Tour...all or nothing on the Tour is madness. He's not Andy Schleck!!

Problem is also Tejay doesn't take preventative measures in the cold and could get sick in the Giro...that's a common sense issue. Yeah, he's done it a few times now and that's really stupid. BMC should have taught him by now...
 
Aug 16, 2013
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He will finish 13th in GC. He said he felt good yesterday, but even then he lost 1.5 minute. Imagine when he feels bad! ;)

Purito and Meintjes are climbing way better then him.
 
A rider who can't podium in a GT can't be considered a very good GT rider. He might be, in the future. Today he's not.
Valverde is a very good GT rider, such as Aru, or Rodriguez. TJVG is, at least, a step below.
 
Aug 21, 2015
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Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
52520Andrew said:
I think Tejay just got overhyped based on his 2 top 5s in nearly perfect situations(2014 had no competition behind Nibili). A lot of talk of him doing the Vuelta or Giro but I don't see him doing much better there as the climbs are steeper and there are still good riders in those races. He is what he is at this point as a top 10 GT rider who can finish in the top 5 if things go right and may snag a podium if things go perfect one year in his career.
A team time trial, long climbs and a complete lack of a Sky team train that can pop him is right where he needs.

Tejay is a diesel. He can handle the longer climbs fine. Whatever he was sold years ago, he believed and has been doing the Tour forever. Next year he needs to switch his focus. Stage races and one grand tour that is not the Tour...all or nothing on the Tour is madness. He's not Andy Schleck!!

Problem is also Tejay doesn't take preventative measures in the cold and could get sick in the Giro...that's a common sense issue. Yeah, he's done it a few times now and that's really stupid. BMC should have taught him by now...
Tejay is not suited for the Giro or Vuelta so outside of going for California and maybe a couple other one week races, he isn't going to be making podiums and winning races. I think he just gets overhyped because he is the best American rider and there is a big void in that department. He doesn't help himself there either.
 
Re:

portugal11 said:
Is insane how bmc thinks that tvg is the one to fight for gc in gt's.
You can say the same about Pinot and FDJ, those 2 career trajectories in TdF are very similar: breakthrough in 2012, nothing in 2013, 3rd and 5th in 2014 (due to crashes), nothing of significance in 2015... So far, TJ has two 5ths to Pinot's podium. Pinot obviously has the higher ceiling, but there is only that amount of really, really good GT-riders.
 
Barring a Floyd Landis miracle I think it's time for him to support Richie Porte - who at least has an outside chance at a podium finish.

Disappointed. I was rooting for him last year, too. Looked good until Stage 10, then things slowly unraveled...
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
portugal11 said:
Is insane how bmc thinks that tvg is the one to fight for gc in gt's.
You can say the same about Pinot and FDJ, those 2 career trajectories in TdF are very similar: breakthrough in 2012, nothing in 2013, 3rd and 5th in 2014 (due to crashes), nothing of significance in 2015... So far, TJ has two 5ths to Pinot's podium. Pinot obviously has the higher ceiling, but there is only that amount of really, really good GT-riders.
You're right, but at the same .Pinot has won cooler races in both TdF and other (smaller) stage races. I have more hope for Pinot than for Tejay regarding GC for GT's. Maybe Pinot should focus on other GT's as well first, but as a Frenchman I'm not sure he will anytime soon.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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lenric said:
A rider who can't podium in a GT can't be considered a very good GT rider. He might be, in the future. Today he's not.
Valverde is a very good GT rider, such as Aru, or Rodriguez. TJVG is, at least, a step below.
Purito is also 9 or 10 years older and Valverde is 8. Purito did not get the opportunity to ride for himself until he left Movistar/Caisse d'Epargne. Tejay is 28 next month...so still some time to refine. But he shouldn't have to by now in an ideal setting.

Tomorrow's stage will be interesting.

BMC did a lot of work for BMC into Bern. So much work I was shaking my head. Why not recuperate for Richie? Copy team Sky!

Tejay has been spoken of since he wore the KOM jersey whilst riding for HTC Columbia. He's had quite some time to perform and learn how to get it figured out.

The most shocking aspect of his form was losing major time in the Tour de Suisse and not even being able to beat a rider who is maybe the 4th best rider for Astana. Tejay should have been at every race with Richie all season long to let BMC know who is better...because knowing that before their madness of choosing the Tour over nothing, would have prevented Richie losing all that time on stage 2. If he was the leader, they'd have protected Richie exclusively, not two riders. Greg van Avermaet was there at the end on that stage and could only help one...and riding together before hand would have given them an idea.

That's a BMC criticism, not a rider criticism...though their riding at the front with just 3 guys was IMO, naive given every other team mate was dropped.

BMC have been improving, that was until yesterday when they pulled Alhaphillipe and Martin back in...for what, 10th place! Waste of energy.
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
lenric said:
A rider who can't podium in a GT can't be considered a very good GT rider. He might be, in the future. Today he's not.
Valverde is a very good GT rider, such as Aru, or Rodriguez. TJVG is, at least, a step below.
Purito is also 9 or 10 years older and Valverde is 8. Purito did not get the opportunity to ride for himself until he left Movistar/Caisse d'Epargne. Tejay is 28 next month...so still some time to refine. But he shouldn't have to by now in an ideal setting.

Tomorrow's stage will be interesting.

BMC did a lot of work for BMC into Bern. So much work I was shaking my head. Why not recuperate for Richie? Copy team Sky!

Tejay has been spoken of since he wore the KOM jersey whilst riding for HTC Columbia. He's had quite some time to perform and learn how to get it figured out.

The most shocking aspect of his form was losing major time in the Tour de Suisse and not even being able to beat a rider who is maybe the 4th best rider for Astana. Tejay should have been at every race with Richie all season long to let BMC know who is better...because knowing that before their madness of choosing the Tour over nothing, would have prevented Richie losing all that time on stage 2. If he was the leader, they'd have protected Richie exclusively, not two riders. Greg van Avermaet was there at the end on that stage and could only help one...and riding together before hand would have given them an idea.

That's a BMC criticism, not a rider criticism...though their riding at the front with just 3 guys was IMO, naive given every other team mate was dropped.

BMC have been improving, that was until yesterday when they pulled Alhaphillipe and Martin back in...for what, 10th place! Waste of energy.
I agree. GVA has already had the Yellow. Why not conserve for Porte which is their number one priority at the moment. Very strange at a critical part of the race.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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movingtarget said:
I agree. GVA has already had the Yellow. Why not conserve for Porte which is their number one priority at the moment. Very strange at a critical part of the race.
Rohan Dennis left the Tour to focus on his time trial for the Olympics and perhaps the road race.

What road race? Simon Gerrans is out and Australia have 3 men for the race...yeah that's not a good reason IMO.

Does anyone remember Rohan Dennis behaviour in the Commonwealth Games after the time trial? His attitude was appalling. For an Aussie, I'd have slapped him in the back of the head he was that bad...major sense of self entitlement on that occasion. He lost BTW to Geraint Thomas.

But back to the stage into Bern. Rohan Dennis did most of the work. That's why they were in front. It would appear that they knew this before the rest day and only announced it now.

Just another reason IMO for Tejay to work for Richie from now on.
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
movingtarget said:
I agree. GVA has already had the Yellow. Why not conserve for Porte which is their number one priority at the moment. Very strange at a critical part of the race.
Rohan Dennis left the Tour to focus on his time trial for the Olympics and perhaps the road race.

What road race? Simon Gerrans is out and Australia have 3 men for the race...yeah that's not a good reason IMO.

Does anyone remember Rohan Dennis behaviour in the Commonwealth Games after the time trial? His attitude was appalling. For an Aussie, I'd have slapped him in the back of the head he was that bad...major sense of self entitlement on that occasion. He lost BTW to Geraint Thomas.

But back to the stage into Bern. Rohan Dennis did most of the work. That's why they were in front. It would appear that they knew this before the rest day and only announced it now.

Just another reason IMO for Tejay to work for Richie from now on.
How?
 
Re: Re:

sienna said:
Galic Ho said:
movingtarget said:
I agree. GVA has already had the Yellow. Why not conserve for Porte which is their number one priority at the moment. Very strange at a critical part of the race.
Rohan Dennis left the Tour to focus on his time trial for the Olympics and perhaps the road race.

What road race? Simon Gerrans is out and Australia have 3 men for the race...yeah that's not a good reason IMO.

Does anyone remember Rohan Dennis behaviour in the Commonwealth Games after the time trial? His attitude was appalling. For an Aussie, I'd have slapped him in the back of the head he was that bad...major sense of self entitlement on that occasion. He lost BTW to Geraint Thomas.

But back to the stage into Bern. Rohan Dennis did most of the work. That's why they were in front. It would appear that they knew this before the rest day and only announced it now.

Just another reason IMO for Tejay to work for Richie from now on.
How?
I am sure TJVG can do some work before the mountains ! Really I think he should forget grand tours. Look for stage wins like Zakarin or a win in time trials if he conserves his energy in the mountains. He seems unable to handle the three weeks without a bad day or two. He can still win one week races but that seems to be his limit. TOC or Paris Nice or TDS. His next contract certainly won't be as a team leader in a grand tour that's for sure unless he does the Giro or Vuelta which won't suit him any better because the problem seems to be the recovery and the length of the race not the route itself. Kreuziger is the same, he should forget the GC in grand tours.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
Good for him, there are lot of vitamins in beer and except for that it tastes good.
 

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