Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

Page 24 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re:

jmdirt said:
TvG going out the back early today tells me that his form is definitely off or that he has mentally given up (maybe a combo).
Could be, or maybe he knows he doesn't have the form to help Porte today, so he's losing time to save energy. That way he could either help Porte or go in the break tomorrow.
 
Re:

jmdirt said:
TvG going out the back early today tells me that his form is definitely off or that he has mentally given up (maybe a combo).
Given up would be most of it - he was 31 minutes down by the finish and no excuses appear to have been given afterwards.
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
sienna said:
Oh Sienna...how indeed!

"I was on my limit and I got to the point where there was still 5k to go and I was hanging on by a thread. I'm not going to say I gave up, that's not the case but when I realised that I didn't have it, to me it's not worth fighting and fighting and fighting for 15th place," van Garderen said. "I said I'm going to save my legs as best I can to help Richie or try to sneak a stage win because that's worth more than just fighting for the best wheel I can just to finish 15th in Paris. Having finished top five in this race, I'm not interested in doing that."

That's how.

Has anyone here sat down and pondered what real leadership consists of? How to actually inspire others?

In a sport that proclaims bold single exploits over team work, its not weird that the by product of such thinking results in riders believing that to be someone, they need to get a result. That perhaps they need to be a winner or a GC man. To ride for themself.

Being really honest here, what Sky did on stages 15 and 17 annoyed me. Woet Poels exploits hampered the capacity of many to race. It denied viewers a dog fight and good scrap.

However given a while to process the entire events I see it differently. One person sacrificing for another is no less leadership than the one who gets poured into. It's true the leaders on GC get many people working for them, giving of themselves. It takes a lot of humility and that means you have to make yourself humble (it doesn't flow from some imaginary tap and gush out) in order for that to not twist you in a bad way...it is everywhere, just look.

This is kind of how I should have talked about Tejay and Richie...start simple. Make team plans. But understand that being a helper, is great. Greg van Avermaet the other day was with Richie on the Finhaut - Emosson, which is spectacular! That's huge. Too often we look at a performance and consider that if it gets time, then its worth while, ignoring the truth behind it. Astana took pulls that day for Aru and he lost time to Porte and Froome, but also Yates and Bardet.

Was the significance to Aru any less diminished because he did not beat them all? Not at all. It mattered to him and to the riders. Too often we're blinded by an environment and culture to just take, take and take some more. That's never going to fulfill people. Say what you want, but test it and you'll find it's true. It's more blessed to give. So perhaps BMC have told Tejay to take...they should encourage people to give. Calm their PR talk down, and just acknowledge that being a helper is great...they're the ones literally empowering the GC leaders and in truth, most have greater leadership qualities and behaviour than the 'annointed' ones.

So what to do?

Send Tejay to the Tour Down Under with Porte and Dennis and win the race. Select a stage hunting team for one race and for it's rival, send Tejay and Richie as leaders. Work for one, allow the other to win a stage. Target a specific stage. Which one? Simple, if Tejay wants results aim for an early 2017 peak and try and get a stage win, then an overall...then back off, or have him ride in support of Greg van Avermaet in Flanders and Roubaix.

Hang on, did he just suggest Tejay ride the cobbles? Yes and why not!?!?

Tejay when he rode for HTC Columbia, was put on a team with a super strong train. Tejay's physique has changed too much. Put some weight on. Lower and upper body. Hit the gym Tejay.

As someone who sat at 63kg for a year doing just CrossFit (in 2014) and who is 5'7", and a PT, Tejay needs to do some form of weight training and yes, one can lift weights and still be lean! What do people think high rep HIIT or metcons use as an energy pathway? They're not anaerobic...thats super short workloads, they're aerobic...and yes this is just my opinion, but I looked at a few pics of me from 2014 recently and yes, I was lean and thin. Then I look at the 'official' weight of riders and how lean they are...I'd snap most of them if I punched them (wouldn't do that) because they're so much thinner than I am. They're lying about their weights. Prove it I say!!

My brother is 6 foot and 55kg for reference. I know what naturally thin looks like. It's not how Tejay or half these riders racing today present themselves. They've gotten thinner to simply compete in mountains...and it doesn't always work. I saw a picture of Bernard Hinault last week, was in shock at the differences 30 years has made in the sport (though the Clinic can address this too), and look at his height and build! GC winner and he had muscle galore compared to riders today. Put some muscle mass on, keep the body fat low and get his power higher, give him some upper body strength to help his bike handling and he'd make a decent cobbled rider. He has the time trial engine, extra power would help. Yes, that means his GC racing days are over. So aim for week long races, stage hunting and maybe a classic or two. How much weight! 3kg!! That's it. At 10% body fat, that leaves about 2.7kg of extra muscle. That's all he needs by the look of things. It would be subtle, but noticeable...he really is too thin.

What to really aim for? Tour of California and Utah. He can win those! Peak early, have a mid season break, then go again in the back half. Go to the Tour for a stage win...plan it out. Pray they put a team trial in next years Tour. Win that! Help Richie next year. And be GRATEFUL for those things...nothing wrong with them.

Get the body back to closer to a more natural level, or his base homeostasis and then see how he performs.

Also, to his credit Tejay lost time in the time trial - indicating he's thinking of some moves today or tomorrow. Almost 5 minutes to Froome. So good on him. There is plenty he can do, because he has talent, it's just not advisable anymore to think 5th in the Tour or higher is necessarily the best thing to do. He can gain MORE from helping. But not everyone will believe that.

PS: I am in no way endorsing CrossFit. I believe in a balanced approach mentally, emotionally and physically. Just stating that if I can maintain 63kg for a year with a 700g fluctuation, all this drivel about cyclist weights is just madness. It's easy when you have momentum to maintain...and I didn't get sick either. Truth is, I needed some extra weight and Tejay could do with some himself.
I was just putting it out there.
Without knowing exactly where a specific rider is in relation to mind and body I have no idea what he is capable of for the rest of the Tour.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
Re: Re:

sienna said:
I was just putting it out there.

Without knowing exactly where a specific rider is in relation to mind and body I have no idea what he is capable of for the rest of the Tour.
Of course, nobody knows other than the rider.

At least he's not lying about allergies...unlike another rider.

This outcome BMC has created...I hope they learn from it.

Dual riders is bad. It could be worse, they could be in Movistar's book where their leader doesn't have it and they're lying about why!!

At least when BMC's riders have not had it, they were honest about that. That's respectable.

Free tip BMC...plan better next year. Take the guess work out of the Tour. Essentially Porte had great support on stage 19! Fantastic!! Good work.

Alas, for 17 stages a free ride was given to the second leader. Imagine how the race could have been had Tejay been utilised like Henao, Poels, Nieve or Thomas? Lose time every second day, and rotate with another rider and have him do a spell like Caruso did last night! It worked well enough...and it goes noticed.

Astana took the fight up, and so did Bardet and Charel!
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
sienna said:
I was just putting it out there.

Without knowing exactly where a specific rider is in relation to mind and body I have no idea what he is capable of for the rest of the Tour.
Of course, nobody knows other than the rider.

At least he's not lying about allergies...unlike another rider.

This outcome BMC has created...I hope they learn from it.

Dual riders is bad. It could be worse, they could be in Movistar's book where their leader doesn't have it and they're lying about why!!

At least when BMC's riders have not had it, they were honest about that. That's respectable.

Free tip BMC...plan better next year. Take the guess work out of the Tour. Essentially Porte had great support on stage 19! Fantastic!! Good work.

Alas, for 17 stages a free ride was given to the second leader. Imagine how the race could have been had Tejay been utilised like Henao, Poels, Nieve or Thomas? Lose time every second day, and rotate with another rider and have him do a spell like Caruso did last night! It worked well enough...and it goes noticed.

Astana took the fight up, and so did Bardet and Charel!
I can't see TJVG working well for Porte and he did not do it in this race either. I think BMC will put TJVG in the Giro next year, he is next to useless as a domestique. Caruso has been very good and Moinard has done well also. TJVG was not even making it to the last climb with Porte sometimes not even the second last !
 
Wow, talking about being out of touch with reality for the past many years with no major victories.....maybe this will help. At least he finally recognizes. But how many of the primadonna's on the tour have that attitude and would never go get bottles? Too many for sure.

Velonews article quote:

"Not going for GC, that’s a pretty big difference right there,” van Garderen said. “I’m jumping in moves from the beginning and that’s definitely different. I’ve been getting bottles and helping out the team so it’s a world of difference.

“Now I have a new level of respect for just about everything. Getting bottles is not as easy as it looks. Riding on the front is definitely not as easy as it looks. It’s definitely given me a new perspective.

“I definitely think riding for the GC is one of the easiest jobs in the world. You get waited on hand and foot and your teammates take care of you and shelter you through the whole stage, and all you have to do is go hard in the final. Yes, absolutely, this helps understand the work they do for me.”


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/09/news/van-garderen-gains-new-level-respect-domestique_419666#LjV24m8Z46eUI1ef.99
 
Mar 11, 2009
1,005
0
0
14:37:01 CEST

Team BMC Racing 2016

News coming through that Tejay van Garderen has abandoned. The American came to the Vuelta with hopes of a stage win but it hasn't worked out.


I just don't know what to make of him. Maybe it's just bad luck. I hope he has enough money in the bank.
 
The overreactions in this forum always get me. Tejay may never win a Tour but he if a few things break his way he could win a Giro or a Vuelta. He could easily podium at either of those races. On the right parcours he could podium at the Tour. Samu Sanchez, Michele Scarponi, and Andrew Talansky are leading major teams at the Vuelta and are on course for a top ten. One of those three has a Giro win on his palmares. He had a poor season and he needs to work on his consistency, sure. But unless he's mentally checked out of cycling he'll probably be fine.
 
Re:

hrotha said:
I think only the Tour and the odd American race motivate him. Not a good recipe for success when you're not extremely good.
In this year's Tour he looked distinctly unmotivated and showed little fight at all while saying he wasn't sick. Maybe some head issues re expectations and pressure, who knows but after finishing 5th in the 2012 Tour at a young age he has not really showed much improvement in grand tours. Last year he looked pretty good but got sick. I think he is at the crossroads career wise. Once Porte went ahead of him on GC in the this year's Tour TJVG seemed to collapse completely and was barely able to offer much assistance to Porte and continued to get dropped early on the hard stages.
 
Tejay expressed his opinion on his PERSONAL twitter account, he has every right to do so. If he feels that his team should win, he has all the right to express that and to launch a complaint to the governing body.

I'm sorry but the losers are you, who fail to respect the following of the rules on their literal terms. If a protest is made and the juries decide that there is ground to punish even one of the riders of the team, the punishment should be expanded to all of the riders and so the decision taken this morning was the right one to take IF the juries decide that the Rojas behaviour didn't followed the rules.
 
well, I expect the jurs apply the 10 meters distance between car and team and they strip their victory in tirreno, even in retrospect.

And TJ is a loser, he knows it

(sick of cry babys going to twitter)
 
Re:

Aguirre said:
well, I expect the jurs apply the 10 meters distance between car and team and they strip their victory in tirreno, even in retrospect.

And TJ is a loser, he knows it

(sick of cry babys going to twitter)
I think we all agree that in cycling the jury should stick to their rules in every race....a lot more.
Steps like these are needed to reach that goal though.
 
the rules are never, never apply strictly, if they do, we wouldt have any cycling.

From now, I demand someone from every team watching TV and demanding the application of rules every single time.

Well, this is TJ's thread... I stop here
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS