Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

Page 23 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Definitely time to work for RP now. Whatever RD was doing for the team TvG needs to do now. He needs to go easy in the TT to save some energy. He can still be a valuable part of this TdF team.

EDIT: Good answers IMO- TvG (c&p): "In other Tours, I've crashed or gotten sick, but this year I don't know for whatever reason it's not responding. There's really no excuse. I wish I had one,"... "I said I'm going to save my legs as best I can to help Richie or try to sneak a stage win because that's worth more than just fighting for the best wheel I can just to finish 15th in Paris. "... "It's definitely tough. You work the whole year and you think you're doing all the right things. You know, form's a funny thing. Sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't. I don't know. Right now, I'm just struggling. The thing is, I know I have it in me to do this. I just have to get all the pieces together. I mean, ***, in the first week, I didn't lose any time, didn't get sick, didn't hit the ground once. I don't have an excuse, I wish I did."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/van-garderen-theres-really-no-excuse-i-wish-i-had-one/
 
Aug 31, 2012
7,550
1
0
Re:

fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
I'm unsure as to whether that would hamper or enhance performance.

Has Sir David opined on this one?
 
Re: Re:

SeriousSam said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
I'm unsure as to whether that would hamper or enhance performance.

Has Sir David opined on this one?
According to Shakespeare, "it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance". He also said "the wheel is come full circle, I am here" so he knew a thing or two about cycling.
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
This Charming Man said:
Galic Ho said:
Mayomaniac said:
TJVG will finish higher on gc than Porte, I'm pretty sure about that.
The competition for a top 5 spot will be pretty hard, but it's not impossible.
I'd still like him to change things up a bit, but he's the American gc rider at BMC, so him focussing on another gt than the Tour isn't exactly realistic.
Edit: I think that becoming super skinny is one of the main reasons why he's suffering the cold, rainy weather more than he used to.
No, goals have to be realistic and RELEVANT. Is it relevant for an American rider on an American team to not be granted a CHANCE as the GC leader at the Tour? No. Is it realistic? No. Realistic trumps relevant.

19 July, you are correct. What I find odd, is with top doctors, on team BMC, that they could not see TJs demise. He ran out of road, as simple as that.

A podium at the Giro or Vuelta is better than the Tour because Tejay had an opportunity. This is why I am critical of BMC; they've gambled it all on the Tour and taking Porte's 1:45 loss on stage 2, guess where he'd be? Third on GC. Don't forget that...he's clearly stronger than Tejay.

Problem is Tejay's affinity for getting sick. He's also stupid for racing without wet weather gear. He's almost 28! That's dumb. Who doesn't rug up? Tejay!! Look what it did to him in the Tour de Suisse! Bad day and lost heaps of time. That is a 9 day stage race.

We have the second rest day approaching. BMC better have found and fixed Tejay's problem from 2014 and 2015. The problem? It's been obvious for a long time now. His weight. He's far too below his bodies natural homeostasis and you can see it...it leaves him more prone to getting sick.

Of course that weight loss means he can compete, but for what? A 'realistic' as you described it 5th at the Tour? Bardet is 45 seconds behind him after the time trial and of all the riders to Porte, in 8th, ALL of them have put time into Tejay in the 2 mountain stages where racing occurred.

Where are these so called climbing legs? Valverde has a grand tour in his legs and he is just in front of Tejay on GC! He's also carrying Quintana...sorry, but Tejay needs to actually do something or his position will remain the same.

Of course he could...but does he have form? We'll see in a few days. That mountain time trial is going to reveal everything.
Please, do not be pessimistic TJ is riding himself into shape.
Consider yourself fortunate I don't pull the quotes from the man himself and post them here.

He's believed his own hype and has to face reality. Humbling himself and not talking up his recovery ability in the third week and Froome's apparent weakness would look good.

Oh you didn't know? He did big mouth himself and look how it goes! He cannot keep the wheel of the remaining top 12 riders. He's within a minute of dropping well outside the top 10.

Tejay and BMC have done this to himself. He is not podium material at the Tour de France. A wise and well structured racing calendar does not allow a rider who failed to finish successive grand tours in 2015 to ride into the next season and big mouth themselves, himself and claim the most dominant rider in the peloton for the Tour has a 'weakness.' Few believe that right now...Valverde is the only one thinking Froome has a weakness and that might not be a valid translation I read. Valverde has other results. Three Fleche Wallone results in a row and a Giro podium and he's 36. Tejay takes what away from this year? A stage in the Tour de Suisse! He's aiming for the Tour podium people and many here expect it from him!! Not being harsh, I am stating be REALISTIC and pick a RELEVANT goal that he can achieve.

Valverde rode the Giro and has a podium. He didn't crack yesterday. Come on, be serious and care about the rider. If you're a fan, then why are you being merry and ignorant? Tejay clearly NEEDS a good GC result in a grand tour. I've laid down a solid case in the Porte thread and perhaps this one as to why BMC needed to ride the Giro FIRST as a team and get a result there for one of their riders...simply for their own well being. Do you think Tejay wasn't hit mentally by bonking the last two years on stage after the second rest day? That's Wednesday! It's a mountain top finish and has a time trial following and then another mountain top finish!

It gets heaps harder!! And Tejay is already losing time. He simply does not have the power and recovery.

So why send him into this race an unknown force? What happens to him mentally, emotionally and as a person if he doesn't get the lofty heights spoke of? Yeah, I care champ...more than the fanboys. It's why I say don't over hype a rider. Richie has actually exceeded what I expected.

Riding himself into shape? Sure. When he actually sticks with everyone, you can claim that.

If you said Quintana, you would have had a small basis for that, based on last years results. Few would believe you given how powerful Poels and the Sky train were yesterday...which is why sending Tejay to the Giro where that absurdity doesn't occur is smart. Actually it's sensible and would help him.

I hope he does lose time, so he can switch his attitude and launch an attack for Richie. Richie can podium at this moment. Will he? BMC have to help him with that. Sitting on the back losing time for the long sited hope of maybe 10th...be reasonable and relevant please. Optimistic? You're being irrational not optimistic. Hoping Quintana has some power and recovery to make a move is optimism...believing Tejay is recovering is obnoxious.

Actually I will say it...the only way that logic would work would be if Tejay was employing Armstrong methodology like a madman...and he does ride with him doesn't he! And yet, he's dropping....being realistic.

Lesson: don't over hype a rider and leave him in a position where this can occur. Send him to the Giro. Get him a win in Romandie, California or the Suisse...something. No shame in that. Banking it all on the Tour is RIDICULOUS when your ability is too far below. Luck, or misfortune is how Tejay can finish 5th...that's not good enough and stable enough for a rider.

And yes, if this sounds harsh, I am sorry...but I'm not making him into someone he isn't or putting him in a position where the inevitable inability to convert occurs and he's left dejected. No, I'm giving you options...BMC just have to be honest and take them. Why else did they buy Porte?
 
Re: Re:

vedrafjord said:
SeriousSam said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
I'm unsure as to whether that would hamper or enhance performance.

Has Sir David opined on this one?
According to Shakespeare, "it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance". He also said "the wheel is come full circle, I am here" so he knew a thing or two about cycling.
Some posters would agree with his take on Tour sprint stages: "daylight and champaign discovers not more".
 
Re: Re:

vedrafjord said:
SeriousSam said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
I'm unsure as to whether that would hamper or enhance performance.

Has Sir David opined on this one?
According to Shakespeare, "it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance". He also said "the wheel is come full circle, I am here" so he knew a thing or two about cycling.
The bard would ride around Stratford-on-Avon on a regular basis.
 
Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
vedrafjord said:
SeriousSam said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
I'm unsure as to whether that would hamper or enhance performance.

Has Sir David opined on this one?
According to Shakespeare, "it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance". He also said "the wheel is come full circle, I am here" so he knew a thing or two about cycling.
Some posters would agree with his take on Tour sprint stages: "daylight and champaign discovers not more".
Froome was heard to say on Stage 12: "A bike! A bike! My kingdom for a bike!"
 
Re: Re:

sienna said:
TMP402 said:
vedrafjord said:
SeriousSam said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
I'm unsure as to whether that would hamper or enhance performance.

Has Sir David opined on this one?
According to Shakespeare, "it provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance". He also said "the wheel is come full circle, I am here" so he knew a thing or two about cycling.
Some posters would agree with his take on Tour sprint stages: "daylight and champaign discovers not more".
Froome was heard to say on Stage 12: "A bike! A bike! My kingdom for a bike!"
And then they gave him the pony size version !
 
Aug 21, 2015
380
0
0
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
sienna said:
Galic Ho said:
movingtarget said:
I agree. GVA has already had the Yellow. Why not conserve for Porte which is their number one priority at the moment. Very strange at a critical part of the race.
Rohan Dennis left the Tour to focus on his time trial for the Olympics and perhaps the road race.

What road race? Simon Gerrans is out and Australia have 3 men for the race...yeah that's not a good reason IMO.

Does anyone remember Rohan Dennis behaviour in the Commonwealth Games after the time trial? His attitude was appalling. For an Aussie, I'd have slapped him in the back of the head he was that bad...major sense of self entitlement on that occasion. He lost BTW to Geraint Thomas.

But back to the stage into Bern. Rohan Dennis did most of the work. That's why they were in front. It would appear that they knew this before the rest day and only announced it now.

Just another reason IMO for Tejay to work for Richie from now on.
How?
I am sure TJVG can do some work before the mountains ! Really I think he should forget grand tours. Look for stage wins like Zakarin or a win in time trials if he conserves his energy in the mountains. He seems unable to handle the three weeks without a bad day or two. He can still win one week races but that seems to be his limit. TOC or Paris Nice or TDS. His next contract certainly won't be as a team leader in a grand tour that's for sure unless he does the Giro or Vuelta which won't suit him any better because the problem seems to be the recovery and the length of the race not the route itself. Kreuziger is the same, he should forget the GC in grand tours.
Tejay hasn't done all that well in ITT recently. A battered Quintana only lost 18 seconds to him most recently for example.

Also BMC has plenty of guys who can do work in the flat, they may be one of the best teams there. I don't see Tejay making a huge difference there. Also considering we have nothing but mountains now besides Paris, I don't see an opportunity to even do work in that department.
 
Aug 21, 2015
380
0
0
Re:

staubsauger said:
TJVG has zero business in the Giro! And the Vuelta in it's current state ain't exactly in his favor as well.
100% agree, for a guy who struggles with more explosive racing(as opposed to a sky train pacing everyone up), steep climbs, and colder weather, the Giro would be a terrible fit for Tejay. The Vuelta is not much better.
 
Re:

fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
Bjarne doesnt seem to like riders that have a beer...a few years ago in CSC days he sent Cancellara, O'Grady and (I think) one of the Schlecks home in the last days of the Vuelta for having a beer one night. TJVG having one beer isn't a problem...that happens if he has another, and another.....
 
Re: Re:

Yingge said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
Bjarne doesnt seem to like riders that have a beer...a few years ago in CSC days he sent Cancellara, O'Grady and (I think) one of the Schlecks home in the last days of the Vuelta for having a beer one night. TJVG having one beer isn't a problem...that happens if he has another, and another.....
It was Andy Schleck if I'm correct. I think the main reason they were sent home was because it was in the middle of the night, not just the fact they were having a beer.
 
Re: Re:

Bardamu said:
Yingge said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
Bjarne doesnt seem to like riders that have a beer...a few years ago in CSC days he sent Cancellara, O'Grady and (I think) one of the Schlecks home in the last days of the Vuelta for having a beer one night. TJVG having one beer isn't a problem...that happens if he has another, and another.....
It was Andy Schleck if I'm correct. I think the main reason they were sent home was because it was in the middle of the night, not just the fact they were having a beer.
He found Stu and Andy bar hopping at 4AM never having been to bed.

Back to Tejay. Indeed USA cycling has no star to speak of and hasn't for a while now!
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
2
0
Re: Re:

Carols said:
Bardamu said:
Yingge said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
Bjarne doesnt seem to like riders that have a beer...a few years ago in CSC days he sent Cancellara, O'Grady and (I think) one of the Schlecks home in the last days of the Vuelta for having a beer one night. TJVG having one beer isn't a problem...that happens if he has another, and another.....
It was Andy Schleck if I'm correct. I think the main reason they were sent home was because it was in the middle of the night, not just the fact they were having a beer.
He found Stu and Andy bar hopping at 4AM never having been to bed.

Back to Tejay. Indeed USA cycling has no star to speak of and hasn't for a while now!
Chris Horner beating Nibali. :(
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
Carols said:
Bardamu said:
Yingge said:
fantomas said:
Bjarne Riis just told on Danish TV, that in 2013, during TdF, he was sitting next to TJ on the plane from Corsica to Nice, and TJ was drinking a beer.
Bjarne doesnt seem to like riders that have a beer...a few years ago in CSC days he sent Cancellara, O'Grady and (I think) one of the Schlecks home in the last days of the Vuelta for having a beer one night. TJVG having one beer isn't a problem...that happens if he has another, and another.....
It was Andy Schleck if I'm correct. I think the main reason they were sent home was because it was in the middle of the night, not just the fact they were having a beer.
He found Stu and Andy bar hopping at 4AM never having been to bed.

Back to Tejay. Indeed USA cycling has no star to speak of and hasn't for a while now!
Chris Horner beating Nibali. :(
A real one Off
 
Mar 9, 2013
572
0
0
I'm American. So i have no problem saying this. TJ should/can win all the Tours of Utah & California he can get. He has no buisness fighting for a GT win.

And while he is at it. Get Porte a bottle and a gel.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
2
0
Re:

thehook said:
I'm American. So i have no problem saying this. TJ should/can win all the Tours of Utah & California he can get. He has no buisness fighting for a GT win.

And while he is at it. Get Porte a bottle and a gel.
He really should give up on GTs. He should rethink his career. Aim for one-week stage races and go stage hunting in Grand Tours. At best he can follow anonymously for a top ten in a Grand Tour. Is that really better than winning GT stages?

Thomas De Gendt, not the most talented bike rider out there, but he has wins on the Stelvio (Giro) and the Mont Ventoux (Tour) plus a GC podium (Giro). And not because he just followed wheels.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
Re: Re:

sienna said:
Oh Sienna...how indeed!

"I was on my limit and I got to the point where there was still 5k to go and I was hanging on by a thread. I'm not going to say I gave up, that's not the case but when I realised that I didn't have it, to me it's not worth fighting and fighting and fighting for 15th place," van Garderen said. "I said I'm going to save my legs as best I can to help Richie or try to sneak a stage win because that's worth more than just fighting for the best wheel I can just to finish 15th in Paris. Having finished top five in this race, I'm not interested in doing that."

That's how.

Has anyone here sat down and pondered what real leadership consists of? How to actually inspire others?

In a sport that proclaims bold single exploits over team work, its not weird that the by product of such thinking results in riders believing that to be someone, they need to get a result. That perhaps they need to be a winner or a GC man. To ride for themself.

Being really honest here, what Sky did on stages 15 and 17 annoyed me. Woet Poels exploits hampered the capacity of many to race. It denied viewers a dog fight and good scrap.

However given a while to process the entire events I see it differently. One person sacrificing for another is no less leadership than the one who gets poured into. It's true the leaders on GC get many people working for them, giving of themselves. It takes a lot of humility and that means you have to make yourself humble (it doesn't flow from some imaginary tap and gush out) in order for that to not twist you in a bad way...it is everywhere, just look.

This is kind of how I should have talked about Tejay and Richie...start simple. Make team plans. But understand that being a helper, is great. Greg van Avermaet the other day was with Richie on the Finhaut - Emosson, which is spectacular! That's huge. Too often we look at a performance and consider that if it gets time, then its worth while, ignoring the truth behind it. Astana took pulls that day for Aru and he lost time to Porte and Froome, but also Yates and Bardet.

Was the significance to Aru any less diminished because he did not beat them all? Not at all. It mattered to him and to the riders. Too often we're blinded by an environment and culture to just take, take and take some more. That's never going to fulfill people. Say what you want, but test it and you'll find it's true. It's more blessed to give. So perhaps BMC have told Tejay to take...they should encourage people to give. Calm their PR talk down, and just acknowledge that being a helper is great...they're the ones literally empowering the GC leaders and in truth, most have greater leadership qualities and behaviour than the 'annointed' ones.

So what to do?

Send Tejay to the Tour Down Under with Porte and Dennis and win the race. Select a stage hunting team for one race and for it's rival, send Tejay and Richie as leaders. Work for one, allow the other to win a stage. Target a specific stage. Which one? Simple, if Tejay wants results aim for an early 2017 peak and try and get a stage win, then an overall...then back off, or have him ride in support of Greg van Avermaet in Flanders and Roubaix.

Hang on, did he just suggest Tejay ride the cobbles? Yes and why not!?!?

Tejay when he rode for HTC Columbia, was put on a team with a super strong train. Tejay's physique has changed too much. Put some weight on. Lower and upper body. Hit the gym Tejay.

As someone who sat at 63kg for a year doing just CrossFit (in 2014) and who is 5'7", and a PT, Tejay needs to do some form of weight training and yes, one can lift weights and still be lean! What do people think high rep HIIT or metcons use as an energy pathway? They're not anaerobic...thats super short workloads, they're aerobic...and yes this is just my opinion, but I looked at a few pics of me from 2014 recently and yes, I was lean and thin. Then I look at the 'official' weight of riders and how lean they are...I'd snap most of them if I punched them (wouldn't do that) because they're so much thinner than I am. They're lying about their weights. Prove it I say!!

My brother is 6 foot and 55kg for reference. I know what naturally thin looks like. It's not how Tejay or half these riders racing today present themselves. They've gotten thinner to simply compete in mountains...and it doesn't always work. I saw a picture of Bernard Hinault last week, was in shock at the differences 30 years has made in the sport (though the Clinic can address this too), and look at his height and build! GC winner and he had muscle galore compared to riders today. Put some muscle mass on, keep the body fat low and get his power higher, give him some upper body strength to help his bike handling and he'd make a decent cobbled rider. He has the time trial engine, extra power would help. Yes, that means his GC racing days are over. So aim for week long races, stage hunting and maybe a classic or two. How much weight! 3kg!! That's it. At 10% body fat, that leaves about 2.7kg of extra muscle. That's all he needs by the look of things. It would be subtle, but noticeable...he really is too thin.

What to really aim for? Tour of California and Utah. He can win those! Peak early, have a mid season break, then go again in the back half. Go to the Tour for a stage win...plan it out. Pray they put a team trial in next years Tour. Win that! Help Richie next year. And be GRATEFUL for those things...nothing wrong with them.

Get the body back to closer to a more natural level, or his base homeostasis and then see how he performs.

Also, to his credit Tejay lost time in the time trial - indicating he's thinking of some moves today or tomorrow. Almost 5 minutes to Froome. So good on him. There is plenty he can do, because he has talent, it's just not advisable anymore to think 5th in the Tour or higher is necessarily the best thing to do. He can gain MORE from helping. But not everyone will believe that.

PS: I am in no way endorsing CrossFit. I believe in a balanced approach mentally, emotionally and physically. Just stating that if I can maintain 63kg for a year with a 700g fluctuation, all this drivel about cyclist weights is just madness. It's easy when you have momentum to maintain...and I didn't get sick either. Truth is, I needed some extra weight and Tejay could do with some himself.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS