Tennis

Page 154 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Where are you from?

In Germany I'd say people link cycling immediately with doping, but although they rarely talk about doping in other sports I think most people know very well that it exists everywhere. Doping is a big topic in the public service broadcasting especially, also in some print media.

There is some hypocrisy, though, for instance when it comes to German athletes like Gina Lückenkemper or Konstanze Klosterhalfen (young, pleasant, girlish women seem especially excluded). Well, after the end of Nike Oregon Klosterhalfen got talked about a bit, there were doubts, but her performances and improvements were outstanding before already and nobody really raised questions in the media. Also for instance there are never questions about the German biathletes or triathletes, which is ridiculous in my opinion, since both sports are very prone to doping.
Well, still, it's not like doping doesn't get talked about; whenever there is a big sports event like athletics championships, Tour de France, Olympia, or even WC in biathlon, there is usually a documentary, interviews with anti-doping experts, reports that raise some questions. Sometimes I wonder if Germany is even the country where this topic gets the most attention, at least it's probably one where the awareness is highest, partly due to dealing with the GDR doping and the victims of that system, partly due to individual works from guys like Hajo Seppelt (or even Fritz Sörgel) I think. There are also quite a lot of movies or TV series about doping. (When football is the milieu of a tv crime series for instance you can be sure doping is a topic...):)

(There also was this study from Lotfi El Bousidi about doping among Champions league players, which in the end hardly got any attention because although about 15-30 percent of the asked players said they were doping at one point it was anonymous, so no names, so no scandal. Interestingly the number was 30% in Spain, 14-25 in Germany, which raises the question whether there is more doping in Spain or whether it is just more socially accepted so that it's easier for people to admit it to themselves.)

I think it's not so much that people here are not aware there is doping in other sports. It's just that many of them (especially the young) draw the conclusion to not watch any pro sports anymore, and the other half mostly pushes that topic aside (football viewers especially) and just don't care, they just want to be entertained.

Then there are people like my mother who isn't stupid and she would always support the idea there is doping in general in many sports, but whenever I say something about a certain athlete she is familiar with and probably has gotten used to (especially if it's a nice person) she's like "what, you really think that? what makes you think that?" and then I'm always in a dilemma, because part of her doesn't believe me and part of her does and I could push on and bring more arguments, but then she would be so disappointed and sad.

Well, at least that is my take about the situation here, others may see it differently. :)
Haajo Seppelt clearly has an anti Russian agenda. When he starts questioning German sports, I’ll take him more seriously.
 
Haajo Seppelt clearly has an anti Russian agenda. When he starts questioning German sports, I’ll take him more seriously.
He has critisized German sports many times over the years. GDR children's doping, Markus Choina and German cyclists, German anti-doping agents and anti-doping systems, German winter sports athletes (the German skiing association reached a temporary order against him), and so on. He also took Chinese, Brazilian, Ethiopian and Kenian sports on, for instance. In short, he looks where he thinks he can find something, and although he's not god himself he has brought many things into the spotlight that deserve to be there. If you think he has an anti-Russia agenda it's probably you who's biased.
 
He has critisized German sports many times over the years. GDR children's doping, Markus Choina and German cyclists, German anti-doping agents and anti-doping systems, German winter sports athletes (the German skiing association reached a temporary order against him), and so on. He also took Chinese, Brazilian, Ethiopian and Kenian sports on, for instance. In short, he looks where he thinks he can find something, and although he's not god himself he has brought many things into the spotlight that deserve to be there. If you think he has an anti-Russia agenda it's probably you who's biased.
All I’ve seen for the last 7 years is blatant anti Russian rhetoric, ala the news in the US. Give me some links to where he criticizes German skiers, biathletes, cyclists, footballers, handball, etc. He is specifically targeting Russian athletes, and since he can’t build evidence against individuals, he automatically calls it ‘state sponsored’ and that no Russians should be allowed to compete. It’s much easier to go about it that way than actually doing some investigation/journalism.
 
Rick - I'm curious, not looking to pick a fight, just don't know much about it. How exactly did poly strings change tennis? Better control? Longer rallies? More power?
It primarily enabled more topspin, which enabled more control while swinging harder. In time technique changed to primarily generate more racket head speed. And over time the sweet spot of rackets has also gotten larger, so hitting it slighly out of the middle isn't as bad as it used to be.

It basically enabled baseline tennis to dominate serve&volley from the 90s, along with a bit of courts slowing down. And with baseline tennis being more and more important, the typical tennis player changed a lot. And because it's a much more stable and solid strategy than serve and volley, it has a much higher ceiling in terms of winning points, thus a much higher ceiling in dominating opponents.
 
Reactions: nayr497
All I’ve seen for the last 7 years is blatant anti Russian rhetoric, ala the news in the US. Give me some links to where he criticizes German skiers, biathletes, cyclists, footballers, handball, etc. He is specifically targeting Russian athletes, and since he can’t build evidence against individuals, he automatically calls it ‘state sponsored’ and that no Russians should be allowed to compete. It’s much easier to go about it that way than actually doing some investigation/journalism.
This is an article which shows what motives and character might be behind the anti-doping expert, it's not uncritical of him, that's why I think it's a good one. Basically it says, he was one to cheer loudly on performances such as Franziska van Almsick himself, until he did an interview with the crying van Almsick and Karen Helmstaedt, who told him some things. From then on he went into the complete opposite direction, started to get missionary. Maybe he also just wants to be important, like many investigative journalists do. But you can't say he's just after Russians or doesn't accuse Germans:

If you do a little research you will find plenty of documentaries and also some books and articles about doping in many kinds of sports and several countries, his major focus is on sporting associations not doing enough (or anything) against doping and all the people who hide doping or support the system, not on one country, although Russia, among others, does deliver lots of material.

I'm now stopping this topic here, because it's really not about tennis.
 
This is an article which shows what motives and character might be behind the anti-doping expert, it's not uncritical of him, that's why I think it's a good one. Basically it says, he was one to cheer loudly on performances such as Franziska van Almsick himself, until he did an interview with the crying van Almsick and Karen Helmstaedt, who told him some things. From then on he went into the complete opposite direction, started to get missionary. Maybe he also just wants to be important, like many investigative journalists do. But you can't say he's just after Russians or doesn't accuse Germans:

If you do a little research you will find plenty of documentaries and also some books and articles about doping in many kinds of sports and several countries, his major focus is on sporting associations not doing enough (or anything) against doping and all the people who hide doping or support the system, not on one country, although Russia, among others, does deliver lots of material.

I'm now stopping this topic here, because it's really not about tennis.
But you were the one who brought his name into the thread. It’s good that you’ll stop it. The guy is a xenophobic hack appearing on state sponsored tv. I am sure he’ll be on during the Olympics.
 
Anyway, to more interesting topics, German sport has had a bit of a decline over the last few years.
That is true, it's no wonder though if one looks at how the athletes are supported financially. In most sports you need parents who support you, take on a loan, or, that is practically the only real way, join the military or the police, and that's not what everybody likes to do.
Also the support system / structures in youth are quite weak because nobody thinks it's necessary to put any money in there.
The only sports with some money in it are some ball sports, most of all football, which is extremely dominant in Germany.
 
Again, I just can't wrap my head around this head in the sand approach to tennis. This writer spends their life seeking the truth, honesty, exposing bad things in the world. And yet, the fawning over Nadal.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/dazzling-washington-nadal-wins-even-as-he-loses

"People see him as family."
"People name their dogs after him."
"He's injured again, but with his grit, he can overcome it."

Absolutely no hint that maybe his body is breaking down from pushing it beyond the natural limit via PEDs. No hint that it isn't natural to have the biceps of a (natural) body builder as a tennis player. No hint that it's odd to be at the top for so long.

Just boggles my mind. Cyclists are all doping. Pro wrestles are all doping. Some Chinese swimmers...but tennis? No, it's totally clean.
 
Again, I just can't wrap my head around this head in the sand approach to tennis. This writer spends their life seeking the truth, honesty, exposing bad things in the world. And yet, the fawning over Nadal.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/dazzling-washington-nadal-wins-even-as-he-loses

"People see him as family."
"People name their dogs after him."
"He's injured again, but with his grit, he can overcome it."

Absolutely no hint that maybe his body is breaking down from pushing it beyond the natural limit via PEDs. No hint that it isn't natural to have the biceps of a (natural) body builder as a tennis player. No hint that it's odd to be at the top for so long.

Just boggles my mind. Cyclists are all doping. Pro wrestles are all doping. Some Chinese swimmers...but tennis? No, it's totally clean.
Not sure it's tennis specific. I think it's rather the completely idiotic levels of idolization the most famous athletes in the world get these days.

Remember how Barça juicing a 12 year old Messi is this feelgood story?
 
Reactions: csillag and nayr497
Probably true. I can understand when it's the average slouch at the dive bar who just wants to watch the ball game and be left alone to drink...but it bugs me more when it's some senior-level investigative journalist who writes about war, famine, political corruption, etc...and then they turn around and see no contradiction in absolutely lavishly highly likely dopers with praise.

I'm plenty fallible in my life, but I at least try to not be a hypocrite, or blind, or display massive cognitive dissonance.
 
Jul 29, 2021
118
173
530
This may be already discussed here. But when Puerto broke out, there was some gossip of Nadal being on the program, is there something to it? I always found Nadal and Djokovic terribly suspicious. I don't even watch tennis anymore, it became boring and overhyped, it's like watching Lance on Sestriere.
 
And here you go, another glowing article on a tennis player who has magically been at the top of the world for two decades. No mention of any external assistance, or how odd it would have been in the 70s or 80s for someone to be THIS good for THIS long.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/magazine/roger-federer-brand-legacy.html

And gotta LOVE the comments. Every single one: "He's a class act, he deserves to be a millionaire!"

Jeez, folks.
 
This may be already discussed here. But when Puerto broke out, there was some gossip of Nadal being on the program, is there something to it? I always found Nadal and Djokovic terribly suspicious. I don't even watch tennis anymore, it became boring and overhyped, it's like watching Lance on Sestriere.
Absolutely no doubt in my mind that these two are on a lot more than no sugar diets and have really great coaches and masseuses.
 
Reactions: southwards
Jul 29, 2021
118
173
530
And here you go, another glowing article on a tennis player who has magically been at the top of the world for two decades. No mention of any external assistance, or how odd it would have been in the 70s or 80s for someone to be THIS good for THIS long.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/magazine/roger-federer-brand-legacy.html

And gotta LOVE the comments. Every single one: "He's a class act, he deserves to be a millionaire!"

Jeez, folks.
The kind of adulation tennis players receive is obnoxious. If this were a text about Ronaldo or Messi there would be some contextualization or mild criticism, but with tennis players is purely adulation. Being considered a higher class sport helps a lot!
 
True, I guess rich people never think they've done something wrong, so how could their tennis heroes do anything wrong?

A main, long-time New Yorker writer also wrote a glowing article on Nadal the other week. She has spent her career chasing truth and exposing lies, and there she goes lavishing praise on ol' Rafael.

And The New Yorker just featured a Q&A with a journalist who covers sexual abuse in the sports world. Great...but again, how about all the doping that goes on? Nobody wants to talk, or hear, about it! It was just Lance and it was just those crazy road "bikers" doing the dope...
 
Reactions: southwards
True, I guess rich people never think they've done something wrong, so how could their tennis heroes do anything wrong?

A main, long-time New Yorker writer also wrote a glowing article on Nadal the other week. She has spent her career chasing truth and exposing lies, and there she goes lavishing praise on ol' Rafael.

And The New Yorker just featured a Q&A with a journalist who covers sexual abuse in the sports world. Great...but again, how about all the doping that goes on? Nobody wants to talk, or hear, about it! It was just Lance and it was just those crazy road "bikers" doing the dope...
Maybe they can't expose much for doping?

In any case, I suppose part of it can be just having a blind spot for doping or picking your battles.
 
Sep 10, 2016
40
19
3,610
Not sure it's tennis specific. I think it's rather the completely idiotic levels of idolization the most famous athletes in the world get these days.

Remember how Barça juicing a 12 year old Messi is this feelgood story?
Messi had an illness which Barcelona paid for the treatment of. Not really fair to call it "juicing".
 
Anyway, hard to imagine the ATP giving a *** about doping when they basically refuse to talk at all about the Zverev domestic violence allegations.
Jeez, they're not investigating this more? Sharypova attempted suicide?!

This really does put doping in perspective. Obviously the ATP isn't going to be too upset about doping if they aren't that upset that a rising young star likely has a problem with violence towards women.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY