Tennis

[BlueRoads]

Haajo Seppelt clearly has an anti Russian agenda. When he starts questioning German sports, I’ll take him more seriously.

He has critisized German sports many times over the years. GDR children's doping, Markus Choina and German cyclists, German anti-doping agents and anti-doping systems, German winter sports athletes (the German skiing association reached a temporary order against him), and so on. He also took Chinese, Brazilian, Ethiopian and Kenian sports on, for instance. In short, he looks where he thinks he can find something, and although he's not god himself he has brought many things into the spotlight that deserve to be there. If you think he has an anti-Russia agenda it's probably you who's biased.

 

[BullsFan22]

He has critisized German sports many times over the years. GDR children's doping, Markus Choina and German cyclists, German anti-doping agents and anti-doping systems, German winter sports athletes (the German skiing association reached a temporary order against him), and so on. He also took Chinese, Brazilian, Ethiopian and Kenian sports on, for instance. In short, he looks where he thinks he can find something, and although he's not god himself he has brought many things into the spotlight that deserve to be there. If you think he has an anti-Russia agenda it's probably you who's biased.

All I’ve seen for the last 7 years is blatant anti Russian rhetoric, ala the news in the US. Give me some links to where he criticizes German skiers, biathletes, cyclists, footballers, handball, etc. He is specifically targeting Russian athletes, and since he can’t build evidence against individuals, he automatically calls it ‘state sponsored’ and that no Russians should be allowed to compete. It’s much easier to go about it that way than actually doing some investigation/journalism.

 

[Red Rick]

Rick - I'm curious, not looking to pick a fight, just don't know much about it. How exactly did poly strings change tennis? Better control? Longer rallies? More power?

It primarily enabled more topspin, which enabled more control while swinging harder. In time technique changed to primarily generate more racket head speed. And over time the sweet spot of rackets has also gotten larger, so hitting it slighly out of the middle isn't as bad as it used to be.

It basically enabled baseline tennis to dominate serve&volley from the 90s, along with a bit of courts slowing down. And with baseline tennis being more and more important, the typical tennis player changed a lot. And because it's a much more stable and solid strategy than serve and volley, it has a much higher ceiling in terms of winning points, thus a much higher ceiling in dominating opponents.

 

[BlueRoads]

All I’ve seen for the last 7 years is blatant anti Russian rhetoric, ala the news in the US. Give me some links to where he criticizes German skiers, biathletes, cyclists, footballers, handball, etc. He is specifically targeting Russian athletes, and since he can’t build evidence against individuals, he automatically calls it ‘state sponsored’ and that no Russians should be allowed to compete. It’s much easier to go about it that way than actually doing some investigation/journalism.

This is an article which shows what motives and character might be behind the anti-doping expert, it's not uncritical of him, that's why I think it's a good one. Basically it says, he was one to cheer loudly on performances such as Franziska van Almsick himself, until he did an interview with the crying van Almsick and Karen Helmstaedt, who told him some things. From then on he went into the complete opposite direction, started to get missionary. Maybe he also just wants to be important, like many investigative journalists do. But you can't say he's just after Russians or doesn't accuse Germans:

Der Bekehrte

Früher der Hurra-Reporter, heute der Antidoping-Missionar: Hajo Seppelt kennt nur das Extrem.

www.tagesspiegel.de

If you do a little research you will find plenty of documentaries and also some books and articles about doping in many kinds of sports and several countries, his major focus is on sporting associations not doing enough (or anything) against doping and all the people who hide doping or support the system, not on one country, although Russia, among others, does deliver lots of material.

Feinde des Sports: Undercover in der Unterwelt des Spitzensports : Seppelt, Hajo, Löer, Wigbert: Amazon.de: Bücher

Feinde des Sports: Undercover in der Unterwelt des Spitzensports | Seppelt, Hajo, Löer, Wigbert | ISBN: 9783430210119 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon.

www.amazon.de

I'm now stopping this topic here, because it's really not about tennis.

 

[BullsFan22]

This is an article which shows what motives and character might be behind the anti-doping expert, it's not uncritical of him, that's why I think it's a good one. Basically it says, he was one to cheer loudly on performances such as Franziska van Almsick himself, until he did an interview with the crying van Almsick and Karen Helmstaedt, who told him some things. From then on he went into the complete opposite direction, started to get missionary. Maybe he also just wants to be important, like many investigative journalists do. But you can't say he's just after Russians or doesn't accuse Germans:

Der Bekehrte

Früher der Hurra-Reporter, heute der Antidoping-Missionar: Hajo Seppelt kennt nur das Extrem.

www.tagesspiegel.de

If you do a little research you will find plenty of documentaries and also some books and articles about doping in many kinds of sports and several countries, his major focus is on sporting associations not doing enough (or anything) against doping and all the people who hide doping or support the system, not on one country, although Russia, among others, does deliver lots of material.

Feinde des Sports: Undercover in der Unterwelt des Spitzensports : Seppelt, Hajo, Löer, Wigbert: Amazon.de: Bücher

Feinde des Sports: Undercover in der Unterwelt des Spitzensports | Seppelt, Hajo, Löer, Wigbert | ISBN: 9783430210119 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon.

www.amazon.de

I'm now stopping this topic here, because it's really not about tennis.

But you were the one who brought his name into the thread. It’s good that you’ll stop it. The guy is a xenophobic hack appearing on state sponsored tv. I am sure he’ll be on during the Olympics.

 

[BlueRoads]

But you were the one who brought his name into the thread. It’s good that you’ll stop it. The guy is a xenophobic hack appearing on state sponsored tv. I am sure he’ll be on during the Olympics.

Talking to you is like talking to a member of a sect.

 

[nayr497]

Thanks, Rick! This makes sense.

And there goes Osaka, out of the Olympics. Bet she won't want to give an interview after that one...

 

[BullsFan22]

Talking to you is like talking to a member of a sect.

You’ve never talked to me. I am however interested in hearing (or reading, in this case) what it’s like to converse with a member of a sect?

Anyway, to more interesting topics, German sport has had a bit of a decline over the last few years.

 

[BlueRoads]

Anyway, to more interesting topics, German sport has had a bit of a decline over the last few years.

That is true, it's no wonder though if one looks at how the athletes are supported financially. In most sports you need parents who support you, take on a loan, or, that is practically the only real way, join the military or the police, and that's not what everybody likes to do.
Also the support system / structures in youth are quite weak because nobody thinks it's necessary to put any money in there.
The only sports with some money in it are some ball sports, most of all football, which is extremely dominant in Germany.

 

[the delgados]

@averymia:
Do you literally vomit when discussing this subject? I agree with everything you said, but if you actually vomit when thinking of these things, you might want to see a doctor. Or at the very least, get some Gravol; it will help.

 

[nayr497]

Again, I just can't wrap my head around this head in the sand approach to tennis. This writer spends their life seeking the truth, honesty, exposing bad things in the world. And yet, the fawning over Nadal.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/dazzling-washington-nadal-wins-even-as-he-loses

"People see him as family."
"People name their dogs after him."
"He's injured again, but with his grit, he can overcome it."

Absolutely no hint that maybe his body is breaking down from pushing it beyond the natural limit via PEDs. No hint that it isn't natural to have the biceps of a (natural) body builder as a tennis player. No hint that it's odd to be at the top for so long.

Just boggles my mind. Cyclists are all doping. Pro wrestles are all doping. Some Chinese swimmers...but tennis? No, it's totally clean.

 

[Red Rick]

Again, I just can't wrap my head around this head in the sand approach to tennis. This writer spends their life seeking the truth, honesty, exposing bad things in the world. And yet, the fawning over Nadal.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/dazzling-washington-nadal-wins-even-as-he-loses

"People see him as family."
"People name their dogs after him."
"He's injured again, but with his grit, he can overcome it."

Absolutely no hint that maybe his body is breaking down from pushing it beyond the natural limit via PEDs. No hint that it isn't natural to have the biceps of a (natural) body builder as a tennis player. No hint that it's odd to be at the top for so long.

Just boggles my mind. Cyclists are all doping. Pro wrestles are all doping. Some Chinese swimmers...but tennis? No, it's totally clean.

Not sure it's tennis specific. I think it's rather the completely idiotic levels of idolization the most famous athletes in the world get these days.

Remember how Barça juicing a 12 year old Messi is this feelgood story?

 

[nayr497]

Probably true. I can understand when it's the average slouch at the dive bar who just wants to watch the ball game and be left alone to drink...but it bugs me more when it's some senior-level investigative journalist who writes about war, famine, political corruption, etc...and then they turn around and see no contradiction in absolutely lavishly highly likely dopers with praise.

I'm plenty fallible in my life, but I at least try to not be a hypocrite, or blind, or display massive cognitive dissonance.

 

[southwards]

This may be already discussed here. But when Puerto broke out, there was some gossip of Nadal being on the program, is there something to it? I always found Nadal and Djokovic terribly suspicious. I don't even watch tennis anymore, it became boring and overhyped, it's like watching Lance on Sestriere.

 

[nayr497]

And here you go, another glowing article on a tennis player who has magically been at the top of the world for two decades. No mention of any external assistance, or how odd it would have been in the 70s or 80s for someone to be THIS good for THIS long.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/magazine/roger-federer-brand-legacy.html

And gotta LOVE the comments. Every single one: "He's a class act, he deserves to be a millionaire!"

Jeez, folks.

 

[nayr497]

This may be already discussed here. But when Puerto broke out, there was some gossip of Nadal being on the program, is there something to it? I always found Nadal and Djokovic terribly suspicious. I don't even watch tennis anymore, it became boring and overhyped, it's like watching Lance on Sestriere.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind that these two are on a lot more than no sugar diets and have really great coaches and masseuses.

 

[southwards]

And here you go, another glowing article on a tennis player who has magically been at the top of the world for two decades. No mention of any external assistance, or how odd it would have been in the 70s or 80s for someone to be THIS good for THIS long.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/magazine/roger-federer-brand-legacy.html

And gotta LOVE the comments. Every single one: "He's a class act, he deserves to be a millionaire!"

Jeez, folks.

The kind of adulation tennis players receive is obnoxious. If this were a text about Ronaldo or Messi there would be some contextualization or mild criticism, but with tennis players is purely adulation. Being considered a higher class sport helps a lot!

 

[nayr497]

True, I guess rich people never think they've done something wrong, so how could their tennis heroes do anything wrong?

A main, long-time New Yorker writer also wrote a glowing article on Nadal the other week. She has spent her career chasing truth and exposing lies, and there she goes lavishing praise on ol' Rafael.

And The New Yorker just featured a Q&A with a journalist who covers sexual abuse in the sports world. Great...but again, how about all the doping that goes on? Nobody wants to talk, or hear, about it! It was just Lance and it was just those crazy road "bikers" doing the dope...

 

[Red Rick]

True, I guess rich people never think they've done something wrong, so how could their tennis heroes do anything wrong?

A main, long-time New Yorker writer also wrote a glowing article on Nadal the other week. She has spent her career chasing truth and exposing lies, and there she goes lavishing praise on ol' Rafael.

And The New Yorker just featured a Q&A with a journalist who covers sexual abuse in the sports world. Great...but again, how about all the doping that goes on? Nobody wants to talk, or hear, about it! It was just Lance and it was just those crazy road "bikers" doing the dope...

Maybe they can't expose much for doping?

In any case, I suppose part of it can be just having a blind spot for doping or picking your battles.

 

[Red Rick]

Anyway, hard to imagine the ATP giving a *** about doping when they basically refuse to talk at all about the Zverev domestic violence allegations.

 

[Blobs]

Not sure it's tennis specific. I think it's rather the completely idiotic levels of idolization the most famous athletes in the world get these days.

Remember how Barça juicing a 12 year old Messi is this feelgood story?

Messi had an illness which Barcelona paid for the treatment of. Not really fair to call it "juicing".

 

[nayr497]

And...he's just more fit than all the other players. C'mon folks, he clearly just works out more than everyone else...

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/32073734/how-novak-djokovic-mastered-faults-become-goat

 

[nayr497]

Anyway, hard to imagine the ATP giving a *** about doping when they basically refuse to talk at all about the Zverev domestic violence allegations.

Jeez, they're not investigating this more? Sharypova attempted suicide?!

This really does put doping in perspective. Obviously the ATP isn't going to be too upset about doping if they aren't that upset that a rising young star likely has a problem with violence towards women.