Tennis

[Red Rick]

I don't think winning in 5 in this case is the biggest indicator of doping, nor do I think endurance would be the most important factor to dope in the first place.

 

[the delgados]

I don't think winning in 5 in this case is the biggest indicator of doping, nor do I think endurance would be the most important factor to dope in the first place.

Ok, so what what might be an indicator from your perspective that a player might be doping?
If not a 27 yr-old who makes his grand slam debut and finds himself in the quarterfinals after defeating some of the best players in the world, who might that be?
Were these guys tested during the layoff due to the pandemic?
What was he doing during down time?
No one said endurance would be the most important factor to dope, but it sure as hell helps, don't you think?
See, I'm not claiming the guy is on the gear. I don't know. I was merely responding to a question asking for opinions. I'm asking questions is all.
So yeah, who do you think might be doping and why?

 

[Red Rick]

Ok, so what what might be an indicator from your perspective that a player might be doping?
If not a 27 yr-old who makes his grand slam debut and finds himself in the quarterfinals after defeating some of the best players in the world, who might that be?
Were these guys tested during the layoff due to the pandemic?
What was he doing during down time?
No one said endurance would be the most important factor to dope, but it sure as hell helps, don't you think?
See, I'm not claiming the guy is on the gear. I don't know. I was merely responding to a question asking for opinions. I'm asking questions is all.
So yeah, who do you think might be doping and why?

I think the sudden run makes him more suspicious than the average #117th ranked player or whatever he is.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of saying "x player is doping, and y player is probably cleanz", I'm just generally very suspicious of top players and basically assume they're probably on some good sauce, because at that level it's just waaayyyy too costly to not be able to compete physically. And yes that would include all of Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, etc. The big reason I'm less suspicious of lower ranked players is simply they'd have less means to afford doping, not less motive or less need.

Meanwhile I don't really buy into silent bans, what's the piont when you can just let a player come back if you can sweep *** under the rug anyway.

 

[yaco]

Ok, so what what might be an indicator from your perspective that a player might be doping?
If not a 27 yr-old who makes his grand slam debut and finds himself in the quarterfinals after defeating some of the best players in the world, who might that be?
Were these guys tested during the layoff due to the pandemic?
What was he doing during down time?
No one said endurance would be the most important factor to dope, but it sure as hell helps, don't you think?
See, I'm not claiming the guy is on the gear. I don't know. I was merely responding to a question asking for opinions. I'm asking questions is all.
So yeah, who do you think might be doping and why?

The tennis tour has been running close to normal since August 2020 - Karetsev competed at challenger level when play resumed and was one of the inform players winning 18 out of 20 matches, including two tournaments in which his ranking went from 253 to 114 - Yes, his performance at the OZ Open is a massive surprise BUT it is lazy thinking to consider ' doping ' is the only way Karetsev has improved his performance.

 

[the delgados]

The tennis tour has been running close to normal since August 2020 - Karetsev competed at challenger level when play resumed and was one of the inform players winning 18 out of 20 matches, including two tournaments in which his ranking went from 253 to 114 - Yes, his performance at the OZ Open is a massive surprise BUT it is lazy thinking to consider ' doping ' is the only way Karetsev has improved his performance.

Asking questions is not a lazy way of thinking; ignoring the content of the question is.

 

[yaco]

Asking questions is not a lazy way of thinking; ignoring the content of the question is.

If you do some research you will find that testing across the board went down by around 50% in all sports.
This is not the first time you have 'mused' that athlete A or Athlete B must be doping after a performance that surprises you - There will be doping in tennis like any sport - But in the case with Karatsev if you misguided theory is correct, then expect a number of players ranked in the 100's to start a doping program because it is a guarantee to get you a grand slam Semi-final.

 

[the delgados]

Again, you have me confused with someone who is convinced the guy is doping.
I'm not in his inner circle; I don't spend time tracking his every move. Hell, I never heard of him until he started knocking off the best players in the world in his grand slam debut at age 27.
See where I'm going with this? I simply asked questions that anyone who pays attention to pro sports and is aware of the history of doping in sports would ask.
Since you seem to be aware of previous comments I made, I don't feel it should be necessary to repeat this, but I will: I don't know.
Both you and another poster made salient comments that might explain his meteoric rise - e.g. one of his opponents was injured; his recent winning record at challenger events, etc. Sure, something to think about.
This reminds me of the closing remarks made by McEnroe et al. before the semi's. Each commentator predicted who would reach the final. The obvious names were mentioned, then John chimed in to say Aslan was going to take it all the way to the top.
Those in the commentator booth burst out laughing. See what I'm saying?
It's not normal for a 27 year-old journeyman making his grand slam debut to reach the semi-finals, let alone win the tournament.
Do I know he's doping? Once again: No. Is it ok to speculate? Yes. That's why there is a forum section called The Clinic.

 

[Dr.Guess]

The fact that these top players are complaining about 'too many tests' it really paints a bad picture. Of course them complaining about it isn't the biggest red light, but it does say a lot.

Tennis has likely never been this popular. The top three guys have taken tennis several notches upward in the last 10-15 years. Federer took off after his first GS win, Nadal won his first when he was barely 19, Djokovic won his first in between the age of the other two. Djokovic struggled a bit to get that 2nd slam, it took him exactly three years, but his transformation in January 2011 is something else. I don't care what sort of nutritional changes he made, you don't all of a sudden start dominating and hardly ever tiring after your biggest weakness was stamina.

Djokovic transformation 2011 is the thing that is the most disturbing in tennis. It’s almost like a donkey to race horse transformation in that regard that Djokos biggest weakness became his biggest strength. The guy just don’t break down giving him a major advantage over mostly Federer.
But the slowing down of the courts have also enabled players to become older and perhaps more fitting to doping.

 

[Red Rick]

Djokovic transformation 2011 is the thing that is the most disturbing in tennis. It’s almost like a donkey to race horse transformation in that regard that Djokos biggest weakness became his biggest strength. The guy just don’t break down giving him a major advantage over mostly Federer.
But the slowing down of the courts have also enabled players to become older and perhaps more fitting to doping.

Djokovic was already a great mover and defender before 2011. He did make a big improvement but the fact that he did that on top of already being #3 in the world catapulted him into the dominant #1 position. He also fixed his serve technically, and Nadal just had a worse year in 2011 than in 2010.

As for why older players are now dominating? It's because younger players are that trash. And why they're trash has more to do with new strings/rackets being worse for learning the game while enabling the modern baseline game. Courts slowing down was a reaction to poly strings, it didn't happen on its own.

 

[Dr.Guess]

Nah, djokovic is one of the players who have benefited the most with doping. He gave up in five setters and after 2011 he dominated 5hrs+ matches.

 

[nayr497]

I'm still just amazed with all the French Open headlines right now that the average fan believes tennis players are clean.

Same with the Baffert/Medina doping scandal. People seem to think horse racing and cycling are the only sports with a history of PEDs. Not tennis. Not American football or baseball...

 

[Red Rick]

I'm still just amazed with all the French Open headlines right now that the average fan believes tennis players are clean.

Same with the Baffert/Medina doping scandal. People seem to think horse racing and cycling are the only sports with a history of PEDs. Not tennis. Not American football or baseball...

Tennis still has a weird perception of gentlemens or "all about that skill" sport in some ways, and I think all the deniers just completely ignore in how many different ways doping improves performance in tennis

That's not to say everyone thinks they're clean, you'll see a substantial amount of Federers fans claiming Djokovic or Nadal are on the PEDs, while saying nothing about good old Rog.

Also try mentioning Serenas panic room escapades to avoid doping testers in any tennis bubble, good luck with that one.

 

[nayr497]

Rick! You have no idea! I actually wrote to the editor of The New Yorker a few years ago when he wrote a glowing piece on Serena, pointing out some of her questionable doping behavior/history to him. He completely dismissed me, as if it is impossible that she's on PEDs.

It really is crazy. You have 40 year olds playing better than 20 year olds and most tennis players used to be washed up at 30 or 32.

Serena is completely untouchable. If you state the there is a possibility she has/is doping you're first called a racist, then a misogynist. (Yep, there are a lot of both of these out there right now, but I'm neither. Just someone very skeptical of tennis being totally clean.)

 

[red_flanders]

Rick! You have no idea! I actually wrote to the editor of The New Yorker a few years ago when he wrote a glowing piece on Serena, pointing out some of her questionable doping behavior/history to him. He completely dismissed me, as if it is impossible that she's on PEDs.

It really is crazy. You have 40 year olds playing better than 20 year olds and most tennis players used to be washed up at 30 or 32.

Serena is completely untouchable. If you state the there is a possibility she has/is doping you're first called a racist, then a misogynist. (Yep, there are a lot of both of these out there right now, but I'm neither. Just someone very skeptical of tennis being totally clean.)

Yeah, this is unfortunately the way of the world all too often now, it's basically impossible to have a rational conversation when race or gender is on the table at this point. Certainly those are topics where we have a lot of change we need to make, but it can't be a shield to protect people from misbehavior either. We need to grow up a bit as a civilization, but with all the legitimate racism and misogyny out there, it's a tough ask. Hopefully we'll mature out of it, but it feels pretty dark right now.

Serena is a laughably obvious doper, and tennis is so far from "totally clean" I'm not sure how to characterize it. Nadal used to be the most comical one, and I have no idea anymore because I find it unwatchable at this point.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, this is unfortunately the way of the world all too often now, it's basically impossible to have a rational conversation when race or gender is on the table at this point. Certainly those are topics where we have a lot of change we need to make, but it can't be a shield to protect people from misbehavior either. We need to grow up a bit as a civilization, but with all the legitimate racism and misogyny out there, it's a tough ask. Hopefully we'll mature out of it, but it feels pretty dark right now.

Serena is a laughably obvious doper, and tennis is so far from "totally clean" I'm not sure how to characterize it. Nadal used to be the most comical one, and I have no idea anymore because I find it unwatchable at this point.

Serena Williams is basically a religious figure. My guess is Osaka will also be in the future.

 

[BlueRoads]

Angelique Kerber (and also Petkoviv and the other women, but especially Kerber) on the other hand has been treated too badly by the public in Germany when she was at her best. Really, really disgraceful comments all around in sports forums, little appreciation even from sports journalists and there was a very ugly remark by an ex-footballer in public about her looks, which didn't even get that much of a backlash...
So being female alone doesn't help much... you need to have the connections, social media and "it" status.

But yeah, doping... hardly talked about in the press in regard to tennis.
Tennis has managed to not have a really huge scandal I think? Whenever something happens like with Sharapova at least here the reporting is pretty neutral, not very excited, treats those as individual offenses.

 

[Red Rick]

Angelique Kerber (and also Petkoviv and the other women, but especially Kerber) on the other hand has been treated too badly by the public in Germany when she was at her best. Really, really disgraceful comments all around in sports forums, little appreciation even from sports journalists and there was a very ugly remark by an ex-footballer in public about her looks, which didn't even get that much of a backlash...
So being female alone doesn't help much... you need to have the connections, social media and "it" status.

But yeah, doping... hardly talked about in the press in regard to tennis.
Tennis has managed to not have a really huge scandal I think? Whenever something happens like with Sharapova at least here the reporting is pretty neutral, not very excited, treats those as individual offenses.

You just get full blown apologism if it's a popular one, and it's never that scandalized. Cilic served a short ban. Gasquet got busted for cocaine and said it was from a girl he kissed. Errani got busted and said moms cancer medication fell into the pasta.

Gotta hand it to Errani for taking the piss with that one.

 

[BullsFan22]

Angelique Kerber (and also Petkoviv and the other women, but especially Kerber) on the other hand has been treated too badly by the public in Germany when she was at her best. Really, really disgraceful comments all around in sports forums, little appreciation even from sports journalists and there was a very ugly remark by an ex-footballer in public about her looks, which didn't even get that much of a backlash...
So being female alone doesn't help much... you need to have the connections, social media and "it" status.

But yeah, doping... hardly talked about in the press in regard to tennis.
Tennis has managed to not have a really huge scandal I think? Whenever something happens like with Sharapova at least here the reporting is pretty neutral, not very excited, treats those as individual offenses.

Sharapova was ‘caught’ using a substance that was used by every day people for decades and it was only banned in January 1, and it stayed in her system after she took it before January 1. It was around this time that the all anti Russian hysteria was taking place so she was just part of that hysteria.

 

[BlueRoads]

Sharapova was ‘caught’ using a substance that was used by every day people for decades and it was only banned in January 1, and it stayed in her system after she took it before January 1. It was around this time that the all anti Russian hysteria was taking place so she was just part of that hysteria.

Hysteria. Right.
Of course it's not just Russians who dope. Although the systematic approach applied by Russia is a level not many countries are on.
But in Sharapova's case it got nothing to do with the state, I'm sure it was an individual decision, like that of many other tennis players, that's it. Excuses are ridiculous.
Still, there wasn't that much in it terms of scandal, at least not here.

 

[roundabout]

Sharapova was ‘caught’ using a substance that was used by every day people for decades and it was only banned in January 1, and it stayed in her system after she took it before January 1. It was around this time that the all anti Russian hysteria was taking place so she was just part of that hysteria.

Meldonium was added to the banned list for 2016 on the 16th of September 2015.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/wada-2016-04-12-meldonium-notice-en.pdf

There is nothing anywhere to support your statement that the positive was the result of meldonium being taken before January 1

In fact

The sample collected on 2 February 2016 also tested positive for Meldonium, at the concentration of 890 ng/ml (i.e., 0.89 μg/ml). The Respondent agreed in its submissions also before CAS that this adverse analytical finding appears to be caused by “the remnants of Mildronate tablets that [the Player] took during the 2016 Australian Open ”

https://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/Shared%20Documents/4643.pdf

Page 3 of the link above

If you want to complain about some kind of hysteria, it would be better to stick to the facts if you want to be taken seriously

 

[BullsFan22]

Meldonium was added to the banned list for 2016 on the 16th of September 2015.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/wada-2016-04-12-meldonium-notice-en.pdf

There is nothing anywhere to support your statement that the positive was the result of meldonium being taken before January 1

In fact

https://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/Shared%20Documents/4643.pdf

Page 3 of the link above

If you want to complain about some kind of hysteria, it would be better to stick to the facts if you want to be taken seriously

Jesus. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Calm down and take a chill pill.

 

[BullsFan22]

Hysteria. Right.
Of course it's not just Russians who dope. Although the systematic approach applied by Russia is a level not many countries are on.
But in Sharapova's case it got nothing to do with the state, I'm sure it was an individual decision, like that of many other tennis players, that's it. Excuses are ridiculous.
Still, there wasn't that much in it terms of scandal, at least not here.

Ah yes, the ol’ ‘but the Russians do it on a widespread scale...’. Why open individual cases to prove someone is doping when you can just say ‘they are all doing it because it’s state sponsored...’

 

[BlueRoads]

Ah yes, the ol’ ‘but the Russians do it on a widespread scale...’. Why open individual cases to prove someone is doping when you can just say ‘they are all doing it because it’s state sponsored...’

Sorry I even tried to reply seriously to you.

 

[roundabout]

Jesus. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Calm down and take a chill pill.

Ah, your post was meant as a joke or something. Ok then, ha-ha, fooled me.

I mean I don't see a reason why I should take a chill pill when I am not the one seeing hysteria everywhere, but ok, whatever, didn't realize that you would have such a weird reaction to actual facts.

 

[nayr497]

Serena Williams is basically a religious figure. My guess is Osaka will also be in the future.

With the Osaka mess at the French Open, which is a mess and who really knows all that went on and when and how, I really enjoy the numerous commenters saying, "She's only a kid. We should respect her mental health. If she doesn't want to talk at a press conference, she doesn't have to."

Meanwhile, these same rabid fans are the one who've helped turn the sport, and most pros sports, into a constant circus. They can't at all see that they've elevated these competitors to gods and talking to reporters is part of how the system works. The "system" is being unkind to a 23 year old professional...but their fandom isn't driving the system, huh?