Tennis

[Andynonomous]

Nadal crushes his opponent (doped up Spaniard David Ferrer), after 7 months off the tour.

I wish people would quit assuming that Nadal has ever had any serious knee issues, just because he says so. He has never shown any evidence of a knee issue on court (limping, slowing,...), yet he has taken many medical time outs for his supposed knee injuries. He always comes back after his medical time outs from knee injuries , and after a 5 minute on court massage, he runs faster than ever.

He has claimed in the past that his knee injuries were cured by PRP treatments by Dr. Sanchez. These treatments have been proven to work no better than a placebo, and are likely used as a ruse to get IGF1 injections to increase strength (he needs this strength because he uses such poor technique - doesn't use his legs in his swing).

Because he said that his knee injuries were "cured", he had to come up with a new type of knee injury to explain his latest absence.

His knee injury is used to
- explain losses to lower ranked players,
- cancel out of a tournament he doesn't want to play
- an excuse to visit a doping doctor for "knee treatment"

 

[D-Queued]

Nadal crushes his opponent (doped up Spaniard David Ferrer), after 7 months off the tour.

I wish people would quit assuming that Nadal has ever had any serious knee issues, just because he says so. He has never shown any evidence of a knee issue on court (limping, slowing,...), yet he has taken many medical time outs for his supposed knee injuries. He always comes back after his medical time outs from knee injuries , and after a 5 minute on court massage, he runs faster than ever.

He has claimed in the past that his knee injuries were cured by PRP treatments by Dr. Sanchez. These treatments have been proven to work no better than a placebo, and are likely used as a ruse to get IGF1 injections to increase strength (he needs this strength because he uses such poor technique - doesn't use his legs in his swing).

Because he said that his knee injuries were "cured", he had to come up with a new type of knee injury to explain his latest absence.

His knee injury is used to
- explain losses to lower ranked players,
- cancel out of a tournament he doesn't want to play
- an excuse to visit a doping doctor for "knee treatment"

Ok, ok, I know that there is a punch line in there somewhere, even if it is a real knee slapper. Just don't call him a knee jerk.

Dave.

 

[zebedee]

Nadal crushes his opponent (doped up Spaniard David Ferrer), after 7 months off the tour.

I wish people would quit assuming that Nadal has ever had any serious knee issues, just because he says so. He has never shown any evidence of a knee issue on court (limping, slowing,...), yet he has taken many medical time outs for his supposed knee injuries. He always comes back after his medical time outs from knee injuries , and after a 5 minute on court massage, he runs faster than ever.

He has claimed in the past that his knee injuries were cured by PRP treatments by Dr. Sanchez. These treatments have been proven to work no better than a placebo, and are likely used as a ruse to get IGF1 injections to increase strength (he needs this strength because he uses such poor technique - doesn't use his legs in his swing).

Because he said that his knee injuries were "cured", he had to come up with a new type of knee injury to explain his latest absence.

His knee injury is used to
- explain losses to lower ranked players,
- cancel out of a tournament he doesn't want to play
- an excuse to visit a doping doctor for "knee treatment"

This is implausible in my view. Nadal's own doctors have made public statements regarding his various knee issues. More plausible as a hypothesis, would be that his problems have arisen through long term abuse of anabolics, aggravated by constant pounding on hard courts. Nadal is no gadfly.

To say Nadal's technique is poor is also over-egging it IMO. He hits the ball incredibly hard, particularly during practice, yet is accurate and regular with low errors. You cannot do that with poor technique. His technique is unusual only inasmuch as he is a natural right hander playing as a lefty and his grips are extreme, his forehand in particular. His reverse forehand is almost his stock shot unlike say that of Sampras or Federer who use it more to hit a one-off running pass or as a defensive shot in extremis but not so much during routine crosscourt exchanges. I think it fairer to say his technique is idiosyncratic.

Just my view really.

I agree with your comments about Ferrer. I'd add a whole bunch of his compatriots in alongside him. There's just no way to otherwise explain the Spanish explosion of muscular tennis and the accumulation of major titles in recent years. It isn't attributable to global warming, that's for sure.

 

[Andynonomous]

To say Nadal's technique is poor is also over-egging it IMO. He hits the ball incredibly hard, particularly during practice, yet is accurate and regular with low errors. You cannot do that with poor technique. His technique is unusual only inasmuch as he is a natural right hander playing as a lefty and his grips are extreme, his forehand in particular. His reverse forehand is almost his stock shot unlike say that of Sampras or Federer who use it more to hit a one-off running pass or as a defensive shot in extremis but not so much during routine crosscourt exchanges. I think it fairer to say his technique is idiosyncratic.

Just my view really.

Watch Nadal's forehand. He leans backwards, making it impossible to get any "leg" into his shot. This is horrendous technique. His shot uses far more energy than a forehand with good technique. You need a vast advantage in strength and stamina over your opponent, to use this shot effectively.

His forehand is hard, because of his immense upper body strength, and accurate, because of his topspin (which takes even more energy).

 

[Froome19]

Watch Nadal's forehand. He leans backwards, making it impossible to get any "leg" into his shot. This is horrendous technique. His shot uses far more energy than a forehand with good technique. You need a vast advantage in strength and stamina over your opponent, to use this shot effectively.

His forehand is hard, because of his immense upper body strength, and accurate, because of his topspin (which takes even more energy).

Who do I trust?

You or all those tennis experts I read and listen to in the media?

Or Nadal himself?

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Watch Nadal's forehand. He leans backwards, making it impossible to get any "leg" into his shot. This is horrendous technique. His shot uses far more energy than a forehand with good technique. You need a vast advantage in strength and stamina over your opponent, to use this shot effectively.

His forehand is hard, because of his immense upper body strength, and accurate, because of his topspin (which takes even more energy).

I actually agree with this tbh, it does seem to me like Nadal doesn't strike the ball with his whole body. He also has the worst slice of the top four off either wing.

It seems to me that retrievers like Nadal and Ferrer make way less mistakes than the likes of Hewitt. I wonder about stimulant use but for as inept as the put of competition testing is I have to think that surely post match testing would rule out stimulant use.

 

[robow7]

it does seem to me like Nadal doesn't strike the ball with his whole body. He also has the worst slice of the top four off either wing.

With today's technology, it's all about racquet head speed, not about legs but more trunk rotation and follow thru. Nadal hits with greater topspin, ball rotation (>rpm's) on the forehand than any player before him. He uses a relatively light headed racquet compared to most pros in order to achieve this. He is very strong in the upper body and arms. Not making excuses because he very well may have juiced, but because he hits off his backfoot doesn't make him a doper. Having significant biceps and never supposedly hitting the weights is proof enough. You don't get those from being on the court 6 hours a day.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Just saw this interview with Victor Conte:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=AYKI3C92JWI

He says WADA have a list of 60 stimulants but in baseball and the NFL they only test for 30 and 10 respectively.

Do they test for the full 60 in tennis? Anyone?

Of course Yohan Blake tested positive for an analogue of a stimulant that wasn't even on the WADA list.

 

[Morbius]

Tennis introducing biological passport. No details yet, and nothing on the ATP site
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21699175

It will be interesting to see how may 5-set marathons we see in the next couple of years.

 

[zebedee]

Who do I trust?

You or all those tennis experts I read and listen to in the media?

Or Nadal himself?

Ask yourself the question, does a player in a very technical and highly competitive sport like tennis, get to the very pinnacle of the game with poor technique?

Modern forehand technique isn't about legs particularly. You can hit off any leg; front leg, back leg, third leg even. It's more about body rotation and lightning fast racquet head speed. Nadal's technique is unorthodox which is different from saying it's sh.te.

 

[zebedee]

Don Catlin on tennis anti-doping or rather non-anti-doping.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/12/tennis-anti-doping-expert-drug-testing

Says it all really. What else is there to say other than the ITF, ATP, Wimbledon etc still continue to regard doping in tennis as a problem that can be managed as a public relations exercise?

 

[sniper]

Don Catlin on tennis anti-doping or rather non-anti-doping.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/12/tennis-anti-doping-expert-drug-testing

Says it all really. What else is there to say other than the ITF, ATP, Wimbledon etc still continue to regard doping in tennis as a problem that can be managed as a public relations exercise?

spot on comments from catlin indeed.

 

[zebedee]

What's interesting is the ITF's response to having been called out.

Basically, we, the four parties (ITF, ATP, WTA, Grand Slams), think our programme is great and we're going ahead with it anyway no matter what an acknowledged doping expert may say. And we don't want to spend the money anyway.

That, rather than engage with someone who knows what he is talking about when it comes to developing a robust programme.

 

[sniper]

What's interesting is the ITF's response to having been called out.

Basically, we, the four parties (ITF, ATP, WTA, Grand Slams), think our programme is great and we're going ahead with it anyway no matter what an acknowledged doping expert may say. And we don't want to spend the money anyway.

That, rather than engage with someone who knows what he is talking about when it comes to developing a robust programme.

yeah, it's grossly annoying, i agree.
I feel the media are letting us down. These federations just play with the media and public opinion.
we can complain in here all we want. It's the media who should be calling a spade a spade and start identifying the contradictions, inconsistencies, and hypocrecies in the words and deeds of these federations.

 

[zebedee]

The sporting journalists are just as hopelessly conflicted as the federations.
They depend on the dopers too much for their bread and butter.

For anti-doping to make any progress, it's going to take government arm-twisting, to push doping into criminality, as well as a societal shift. I see the Australians are making a start now.

 

[Bicycle]

The guy was out for 7 months injured - misses the latest grand slam because of it. He comes back and he's played 4 events and lost one match. Incredible doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

[zebedee]

Ironically, incredible does rather describe it.

Whatever he's on, it works.

 

[SeriousSam]

The guy was out for 7 months injured - misses the latest grand slam because of it. He comes back and he's played 4 events and lost one match. Incredible doesn't even begin to describe it.

Isn't incredible at all. First two tournaments he faced a bunch of nobodies on clay. he would be expected to beat them assuming he doesn't make his comeback too early. Notable victories are over Ferrer, a guy with a horrible h2h against him and Federer a guy with a bad h2h against him who didn't play well (neither did nadal btw).

There's no evidence Nadal is more likely to dope, or more likely to dope more, than the other top players.

Finally, tennis isn't cycling. The skill component is far more decisive wrt winning than physical attributes. Especially in non GS matches.

That said, did he use PEDs during his recovery? Sure did, would be incredibly stupid not to!

 

[blackcat]

There's no evidence Nadal is more likely to dope, or more likely to dope more, than the other top players.

apart from ones own eyes.

his body as a young athlete


NOT NORMAL

 

[blackcat]

Do they test for the full 60 in tennis? Anyone?

if ya Argentinean and play tennis in the last decade, yeah they do.

they are the rump of the sport. The ITF or ATP treat them like a collective Ricco.

 

[Bicycle]

There's no evidence Nadal is more likely to dope, or more likely to dope more, than the other top players.

He's the only top player in the men's game who repeatedly has long breaks "injured" only to come back almost immediately good as ever. It's the same pattern as Serena.

Now I see he's skipping Miami - no doubt so he can "prepare" for the clay season. Maybe he's injured - it sure looked like it in Indian Wells

 

[SundayRider]

apart from ones own eyes.

his body as a young athlete


NOT NORMAL

Biceps like a rugby in a sport that doesn't require those levels of strength

 

[Cycle Chic]

Looks like Richard Gasquet is on the ROIDS....phenomenol hitting against Murray and he even had a Roid Rage at the umpire. Havent seen Gasquet hitting that strong ever.

Tommy Haas was also running around like a demented Duracell rabbit...at age 35.

Not normal.

 

[zebedee]

But both come to grief at the hands of the human backboards that are Ferrer and Murray. Some of Murray's recovery shots this week have been insane.

As you say, not normal.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Murray looked to be gassed today but still had enough power from the back of the court and finesse in his shots to beat Ferrer (only just).

It was hot but I suspect for Murray EPO won't get you to Ferrers level if your not training as hard away from matches.